Better Scanning

George Collier · Jul 17, 2020

I'm getting into scanning 120 negs with my Epson V850 Pro, using SilverFast.
Disappointing to find out that the Epson film holder for MF film will hold only 3 frames (6x6cm). Not just scan, but if the strip has 4 frames, you can't mount it in the frame. (All of my negs are 4 frames per strip to minimize "end frames" for printing.)
Better Scanning has a 4 frame holder, which includes some "T-Lock" cross clips that hold down the frames, with an optional ANR glass plate. The holder is about 100 USD.
Do they make good stuff? They seem to have covered the bases in terms of design. How well do the "variable" leveling devices work? How is the quality and purchase experience?

shutterfinger · Jul 17, 2020

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/betterscanning-is-he-still-in-business.174388/

George Collier · Jul 18, 2020

Doesn't look encouraging. Any further attempts to reach him since April?

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 18, 2020

George, It's worse for me. I shoot 6x7. So part of the third shot cant be scanned. I have to flip the negative and scan a second time to get the 3rd shot. Fortunately, most of my 120 film was cut 3-3-2-2. (My old V600 had no problem with three 6x7;s) But with the 3 and the V850 holders, I have to trim the ends to get it to fit. You might have to cut your 4's in half. If you find a method or holder that resolves this issue, please post it here.

George Collier · Jul 18, 2020

Is there another company who makes after market accessories for the scanner?

138S · Jul 18, 2020

George Collier said:
I'm getting into scanning 120 negs with my Epson V850 Pro, using SilverFast.
Disappointing to find out that the Epson film holder for MF film will hold only 3 frames (6x6cm). Not just scan, but if the strip has 4 frames, you can't mount it in the frame. (All of my negs are 4 frames per strip to minimize "end frames" for printing.)
Better Scanning has a 4 frame holder, which includes some "T-Lock" cross clips that hold down the frames, with an optional ANR glass plate. The holder is about 100 USD.
Do they make good stuff? They seem to have covered the bases in terms of design. How well do the "variable" leveling devices work? How is the quality and purchase experience?

The betterscaning solution is a nice addition to the Epson and it delivers a more pro feel, see this:

With the Epson it's very important to ensure flatness and adjusting optimal height, with a careful scanning and edition you may obtain totally pro results.

juan · Jul 18, 2020

Go to a picture frame shop and get two pieces of anti-glare picture frame glass the size of your scanner glass or slightly smaller.Get the shop to buff the edges so you won’t cut yourself. Put down the 8x10 mask that came with your scanner, put one sheet of glass down with the anti-glare side up. Put down the film. Add the second sheet of glass with the anti-glare side down. If you’re using Vuescan, scan in transparency mode to use the high res lens. You’ll have to research how to do that with SilverFast.

George Collier · Jul 18, 2020

Thanks for the posts -
138S - I have seen this video, it's why I want to order one of their holders, but other posts to this thread indicate that Better Scanning might not be active now.
juan - I believe SilverFast's multiscan feature (enhanced shadow detail) works only with a holder, and I also have seen it claimed that the holder is the sharpest method except for fluid mounting (I think he says that in the video you linked).
I have scanned glass "slides", which have the emulation sandwiched between glass plates, each about 1.5mm thick. In order to use the "film holder" setting, I have to measure the right distance from the scanner glass and shim up the slides, which would probably work with your idea. The other option would be to cut my strips into "2's", which wouldn't be the end of the world. The holders work really well, and I have developed a technique / procedure which results in almost no dust.

Vincent Boman · Jul 18, 2020

George Collier said:
Doesn't look encouraging. Any further attempts to reach him since April?

I contacted him yesterday, still no answer. I'll tell you if I get one.

George Collier · Jul 18, 2020

OK, thanks, appreciate it.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 18, 2020

George Collier said:
Thanks for the posts -
138S - I have seen this video, it's why I want to order one of their holders, but other posts to this thread indicate that Better Scanning might not be active now.
juan - I believe SilverFast's multiscan feature (enhanced shadow detail) works only with a holder, and I also have seen it claimed that the holder is the sharpest method except for fluid mounting (I think he says that in the video you linked).
I have scanned glass "slides", which have the emulation sandwiched between glass plates, each about 1.5mm thick. In order to use the "film holder" setting, I have to measure the right distance from the scanner glass and shim up the slides, which would probably work with your idea. The other option would be to cut my strips into "2's", which wouldn't be the end of the world. The holders work really well, and I have developed a technique / procedure which results in almost no dust.

What's the procedure? Tks.

138S · Jul 18, 2020

George Collier said:
and I have developed a technique / procedure which results in almost no dust.

I use this to clean air when scanning and in the darkroom, no dust at all.

HEPA filtration makes wonders

juan · Jul 19, 2020

For Epsonscan and Vuescan, the 8x10 mask gives the scanner the needed information as a holder does. I would think it would work with SilverFast. The lower glass raises the negative to the proper height. I’ve been scanning LF and 120 this way for at least 15-years.
The HEPA filter is also a good idea.

Deleted member 88956 · Jul 19, 2020

juan said:
For Epsonscan and Vuescan, the 8x10 mask gives the scanner the needed information as a holder does. I would think it would work with SilverFast. The lower glass raises the negative to the proper height. I’ve been scanning LF and 120 this way for at least 15-years.
The HEPA filter is also a good idea.

I don't think this is even close to reality. Height over scanner bed is in 2mm range and besides, all one needs is a single glass to bottom of which negative strip is taped, so negative faces the scanner bed. There is absolutely no need for bottom glass and in fact, even it made the height right, it adds a layer into scanning path, never a good thing.

As for using 8x10 mask, it is only one of the tabs that fools scanner into thinking something is on it, so not the whole thing must be down to make that happen.

George Collier · Jul 19, 2020

Witold's assessment agrees with what I see, re the scanning height. When scanning the glass slides, I found the film holder height by running a straight edge diagonally across the film opening in the holder, from one "foot" to the other, whose positions are controlled by the adjustment wedges. Measuring down to the poly sheet in the holder, I get very close to 2.5mm (.1").
I'm assuming that I just need to elevate the film plane to that height to simulate the holder and use the holder setting on SilverFast. It worked with the slides.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 19, 2020

George, my Epson V850 holder have slider adjustment that control the height. It makes a big difference. So you should have a way to adjust the height to find the best focal point.

George Collier · Jul 19, 2020

Alan - the dust procedure - pretty logical, but here it is.
My negs have been stored in Print File sleeves since the early 70's. When printing over the decades in the darkroom, I can count on one hand the number of times I have had to clean a neg with wet cleaner. (I also spot almost no prints, but then I use an Aristo cold light, so that would be expected.)
So starting out, when withdrawing the neg from the PF sleeve, I inspect visually and expect to find nothing but dust and not much of that.
I don't use gloves as they can contribute lint, and handle the film by the edges.
I first draw the film through an orange Ilford antistaticum, sandwiching it in the cloth.
Draw the cloth over the poly surface in the film holder (which is upside down to scanning with the hold down frame open), with the scanner lid open (I do this right at the bottom edge of the scanner surface, just below the glass, to reduce motion in the whole process.) Now both the film and the holder top have no static.
Blow off the length of the holder poly with a rocket duster, then the base side of the neg.
Position the film into the holder, along the rails, base side to poly, close and clip the holding frame as quickly as I can. (I know, the film will be backwards, I'll get to that*).
Blow off the emulsion side of the film, which is still facing up.
Turn the holder over and de static cloth the other side of the holder poly and the scanner glass (I clean upper and lower glass surfaces with glass cleaner when beginning a session).
Rocket blow off the scanner glass (top and bottom) and top side of holder poly, position the holder, and close the lid. Ready to scan.
* I scan e-side to scanner because if the film has barrel curl, the holder locking frame will hold it flatter, and scanning e to scanner eliminates scanning through the film base, one more layer. I set the SilverFast control to flip the image or flip it in PShop if necessary.
This method has given me the best results so far. I scanned some Tri-x / Rodinal negs of my grandfather from the 70's and there was very little dust (no ICE either). The attached has no sharpening by either SF or PShop.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 19, 2020

George I basically do about the same. I do use gloves: Kinetronic anti status gloves. Instead of the cloth, I will use anti static brush from Kinetronics after using the Rocket blower. My V850 holders have an ANR glass that keep the film flat and a height adjustment slider unlike my old V600 holders which have neither. Of course, the ANR glass another two surfaces to keep clean from dust. Nice photo of your granddad.

George Collier · Jul 19, 2020

Yes, I didn't mention the height adjustment sliders, but I did use them to find the optimum height.
Yes, this image is a family favorite, he was in his eighties, retired from farming, up in the barn. I took a series at the foot driven emory wheel he used to sharpen tools, his axe here.

Deleted member 88956 · Jul 19, 2020

George Collier said:
Alan - the dust procedure - pretty logical, but here it is.
My negs have been stored in Print File sleeves since the early 70's. When printing over the decades in the darkroom, I can count on one hand the number of times I have had to clean a neg with wet cleaner. (I also spot almost no prints, but then I use an Aristo cold light, so that would be expected.)
So starting out, when withdrawing the neg from the PF sleeve, I inspect visually and expect to find nothing but dust and not much of that.
I don't use gloves as they can contribute lint, and handle the film by the edges.
I first draw the film through an orange Ilford antistaticum, sandwiching it in the cloth.
Draw the cloth over the poly surface in the film holder (which is upside down to scanning with the hold down frame open), with the scanner lid open (I do this right at the bottom edge of the scanner surface, just below the glass, to reduce motion in the whole process.) Now both the film and the holder top have no static.
Blow off the length of the holder poly with a rocket duster, then the base side of the neg.
Position the film into the holder, along the rails, base side to poly, close and clip the holding frame as quickly as I can. (I know, the film will be backwards, I'll get to that*).
Blow off the emulsion side of the film, which is still facing up.
Turn the holder over and de static cloth the other side of the holder poly and the scanner glass (I clean upper and lower glass surfaces with glass cleaner when beginning a session).
Rocket blow off the scanner glass (top and bottom) and top side of holder poly, position the holder, and close the lid. Ready to scan.
* I scan e-side to scanner because if the film has barrel curl, the holder locking frame will hold it flatter, and scanning e to scanner eliminates scanning through the film base, one more layer. I set the SilverFast control to flip the image or flip it in PShop if necessary.
This method has given me the best results so far. I scanned some Tri-x / Rodinal negs of my grandfather from the 70's and there was very little dust (no ICE either). The attached has no sharpening by either SF or PShop.

View attachment 250750

Love the shot, so fitting to the subject, great work.

GRHazelton · Jul 20, 2020

I hope Doug Fisher is well! I bought the 120 negative holder and anti-Newton's ring glass for my Epson V700. After some rather fiddlly height adjustments it made a tremendous improvement in my scans. Scans are now sharp edge to edge, corner to corner as they should be, given that they were shot on a Pentax 645n with the 35mm WA.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 20, 2020

GRHazelton said:
I hope Doug Fisher is well! I bought the 120 negative holder and anti-Newton's ring glass for my Epson V700. After some rather fiddlly height adjustments it made a tremendous improvement in my scans. Scans are now sharp edge to edge, corner to corner as they should be, given that they were shot on a Pentax 645n with the 35mm WA.

Whose holder did you buy?

GRHazelton · Jul 20, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Whose holder did you buy?

Doug Fisher is the main man at BetterScanning.com, from which I bought the 120 film carrier and the ANR glass.

jtk · Jul 21, 2020

I've made fine inkjet prints from the ancient Epson 3200 scanner equipped with several of Doug Fisher's 120 carriers...With 6X6 and 6X7 the most basic is better than Epson's own...take an additional step up with either Better Scanning's ANR (much thinner than window/framing glass) and/or (I've done both) Better Scanning's adjustable focus holder. The latter two compare nicely at 11X14+ 14" square with Durst/Fuji enlarger prints from same negs. (Fuji 105/4.5 E lens tested equal to Nikon/Rodenstock and it's mechanically better thanks to preset ring). 3200 was a disappointment with 35mm. so way back in time I bought a Nikon Coolscan V.

jtk · Jul 21, 2020

fwiw part of my family in 19th century... a water/time damaged neg.. . Was wrinkled so I 3200 flatbed scanned through glass from disused cheap contact printer... I knew everybody in the photo except for the dogs and chickens...my grandmother wears the sombrero. Prints beautifully at letter size..Brown-toned..visitors love it.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/media/grace-her-brother-and-sisters-dogs-chickens.57108/

Better Scanning

Deleted member 88956

Deleted member 88956

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