better lens system for slow shutter speed

[pollux]

which lenses are best for a slower shutter speed on a tripod, RZ lenses or pentax 67. would the leaf shutter lenses be better for darker days, as they will make less vibration on a tripod? also is a WLF infact better for street as everyone says to me? for example 500mm f6 in leaf shutter vs 400mm in focal plane. i would have thought i could lower the shutter speed to offset using f6 wide open. all these lenses tend to be great wide open.

 

[pollux]

i wish to photograph large ships, both moving and static. will 1/30s and 1/60s be fast enough to freeze them (being further away) i am worried that a 400mm f4 in a pentax 67 will be blurred at these speeds from shutter shake (not subject). the mamiya 500mm f6 will not be blurred from shutter shake, but will f6 1/60s be ok with fast film. i have resigned to using my 35mm for ship or action photos in winter though. i will just use a 110mm f2.8 on the mamiya in winter. the mamiya is great with 500mm f6, however can i get by with iso 400 and push processing?

this has been my passion away from street photography, and a large ship filling a 120 frame would be great.

the problem is sucking in enough light in the UK. i would hope i could take the ship photos around midday, iso 400 f6 1/60s, then switch to static shots and lower the shutter speed. damn that pentax 400mm f4 and the camera shake.

 

[Sirius Glass]

1/[focal length of lens] seconds for hand held photography. Thus a 100 mm lens should be used hand held for 1/100 seconds or faster. A 400 mm lens should be used hand held for 1/400 seconds or faster. Any shorter exposure requires a tripod. This is true for focal plane or leaf shutters. Once on a tripod the slowest shutter speed it determined by the speed of the film, the motion of the subject, and the stability of the tripod. Some tripods vibrate in the wind. Some tripods fall over in the wind, a topic of sore discussion for those people it happened to!

Steve

 

[pollux]

does the mamiya perform better on a tripod, especially as the shutter can be locked up? just a bit wary of f6 in low light, restricting the type of shots. would i be able to use a slower shutter speed on a tripod vs a focal shutter? if yes, this would negate the faster aperture of the focal plane lenses.

 

[keithwms]

Well, you asked many different questions at the same time, it's hard to answer. But generally, the leaf shutter lenses will give excellent results at all shutter speeds, including low speeds. And the very best results will be obtained when you use MLU and a tripod.

Whether system X is better than system Y, that is always contentious! But I will offer my own 2 cents, which is that this situation you describe is precisely where the (bulky) rb/rz systems achieve their greatest strength. They are quite massive cameras with a lot of mass damping, so when they are on a tripod, any vibrations settle out very quickly. That, plus MLU and the leaf shutters, means that you can get exceptionally low-vibration images. There is one devil in the details though: you need to be sure to have a good, sturdy tripod with a very good, stable coupling. The rb/rz with a big lens can be so heavy that an inferior tripod won't be up to it. N.b. I use the same tripods and coupling for my rb and rz systems that I use for LF. And I always use MLU, at any speed. (and something tells me that somebody is about to say that under certain conditions this isn't necessary...)

Whether a WLF is better for street is a matter of opinion... they can be less obvious because you are in a downward looking posture so that most people won't recoil in the same way they might if they see that you are framing a shot. Also, there is the tendency to hold the camera at ~1 meter off the ground when you use a WLF, as opposed to eye level when you use an ordinary VF. Which is better depends on the shot. I would merely point out that 99% of all street shots seem to be taken from eye level... and it shows. A WLF can allow you to explore some very unusual perspectives in a comfortable way... but on the other hand a WLF also makes it hard to shoot at eye level. With the rb and rz systems I use the WLFs as well as the metering prisms... depending on the task at hand.

So... my best advice, as usual, is to experiment and explore on your own.

 

[bdial]

With a moving subject, that movement will be a far greater detriment to sharpness than the difference between a focal plane or leaf shutter. Though at such slow speeds you will probably get some distortion from the focal plane shutter vs subject movement.

You will be able to use a slower shutter speed on the tripod, but how low you can go will be limited by the subject.
My handy conversion calculator says that 10 Knots is 514 cm/second, so at that speed you subject will move roughly 17 cm at a 1/30 shutter speed. If you aren't filling the frame with the ship, that's probably not too bad, but you'll have blurring. I'd stick to 1/125 or faster if possible.
If you can pan smoothly, that might help.

 

[pollux]

good replies, appreciate this advice. last issue, do you feel the vibration inherent in the pentax 67 long prime lenses on and off a tripod limits them to fair weather shooting at fast speeds. ie 400mm f4 ED IF and longer? can mirror lockup again, defeat this issue. if the lens was not fast at f4, i wouldn't even consider the pentax 67 system and just use a meter handheld, or the prizm for the mamiyas as keith stated.

 

[Venchka]

You haven't mentioned which films and their speeds? That is also relevant. I own a Pentax 6x7. I put it on a sturdy tripod and very sturdy head. The head is more critical than the legs. I hang a camera bag/backpack from the tripod for addtional mass and to lower the center of gravity of the entire system. I use MLU. I place my free hand firmly on the prism. I release the shutter with a cable release. No complaints with the 150mm lens from 30 seconds to 1/30 second. I handhold at 1/125 all the time. I use MLU off the tripod as well for static subjects. The mirror slap happens after the shutter closes. I am a confirmed eye level person. However, "street shooting" isn't high on my list of subjects. I recently went back to a 6x6 WLF camera for the first time since 1969. I'm relearning how to shoot. It's not bad. I will say that MLU and a leaf shutter is just as smooth as my view cameras. In fact, that's exactly the same as a view camera.

I picked the Pentax 6x7 over the Mamiya 67 twice. For the way I use a camera. YMMV.

 

[Venchka]

If buying into the Pentax 6x7 system, there is also the 300mm f/4.0 plus 2x converter = 600mm f/8.0.

 

[Mark Fisher]

On the street shooting front, I don't think either camera will be all that good whether you are using a waist level finder or not. They are pretty darn huge. It is hard to not be noticed with those cameras! If you want to shoot street with medium format, get a fixed lens TLR. They are much smaller and people often are interested in them anyway because they look so cool!

 

[Sirius Glass]

For street shooting, even smaller than a TLR is a Hasselblad or an SLR Rollei.

I just could not resist that!

Steve