Best way to print this?

[Jarvman]

This is going to be the next photo I attempt printing in the darkroom, it's going to be tricky to get the most out of the neg though. I want to make the dome of the cathedral alot lighter than it is in relation to the rest of the print without creating a halo around it. What would the best way of doing this be? Any advice on printing it? It could be quite a beaut with enough patience I reckon.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I would use a dilute bleach and take some of the density out after you're done printing the rest of the image to your satisfaction.
- Thomas

 

[jeroldharter]

This is a high contrast scene. Before bleaching, try flashing the print and then do split contrast printing starting with the yellow filtration.

 

[Bruce Osgood]

I would follow Dr. Harters' prescription. This looks like a candidate for split contrast printing.

 

[Jarvman]

I know of neither split grade printing nor bleaching, can you talk me through it

 

[Jarvman]

When making test strips for split grade printing it's often said to use whole sheets. I don't really want to sacrifice 2 sheets of 12x16". I'd get a good enough idea by using two sheets of 10x8" right?

 

[clogz]

As to split grade printing :http://www.lesmcleanphotography.com/articles.php?page=full&article=21

 

[Neal]

Dear Jarvman,

Split grade printing, while a great way to get the overall contrast, will not lighten the dome relative to the rest of the paper. Bleaching will work, but try some dodging techniques first. I like to make dodging tools in the shape of the area I wish do dodge.

Scan one of your test prints and print it out at about half size on heavy paper (manila folder stock is handy). Cut out the portion that you wish to dodge carefully. Keep the edge ragged. Attach a wire and you have a tool that you hold about half way above the print. This height, combined with the ragged edge is usually enough to keep the "halo" away. Of course, it isn't a panacea, but I can't think of any techniques that are.

Good luck with your print,

Neal Wydra

 

[jeroldharter]

Split grade printing in a nutshell:

Use variable contrast paper. Insert the low contrast filtration filtration (grade 0). Do a test strip of the print evaluating only the high values (light tones). Choose the exposure time that yields the faintest detail in the important high values. Sometimes I pick the strip that is 1/6 stop lighter than the one that looks right because my inherent tendency is to print too dark.

Then make a second test strip. Expose the paper with the grade 0 filtration for the time determined in the first test strip. Then change the filtration to grade 5 and do a test strip on top of the grade 0 exposure. Here you are looking to get the low values (dark tones) at the proper density.

When you do the test strips, you can get a feel for dodging and burning times at each grade. For example, the bright domes on the print will probably need dodging during the grade 0 exposure, but not much in the grade 5 exposure or else they will look muddy because the black bits will be gray.

To learn the process, I think full sheet test strips are very helpful to get a feel for what you are doing. After awhile though, you can target smaller test strips for the important high values and likewise for the shadows. For example, if I am making a 20x24 print, I often cut the paper into 4 inch slices and do test strips across the appropriate areas of the print to save paper. For 8x10 size, paper is relatively cheap and you will learn much more by using full sheets. In the end, it is cheaper than making lousy prints.

Bleaching in a nutshell:

For bleaching, you use a solution of potassium ferricyanide. I can't remember the dilutions off hand. But you buy a pound of "pot ferri" from Photographer's Formulary for $15-20 and it will last a lifetime. You mix up a concentrated stock solution to keep on hand. The bleach will lighten the already light areas of the print disproportionately more than the dark areas. So if you have a print with proper shadows but muddy highlights you can immerse a fixed print in a dilute bleach solution to give it more snap. However, it is easy to over do the bleaching as the process continues briefly after you remove the print from bleach and put it back in the fixer. Also, you can use a more concentrated bleach solution on a cotton swab and bleach selected areas of the print. Place the wet, fixed print on a sheet of plexiglass at an angle in bright viewing light. Apply the bleached swab to the selected print area and keep a constant stream of water running over the area so that you don't over bleach. Be mindful of varying the direction of the water stream so that areas downstream of the bleaching area are not bleached inadvertantly. You want to apply several coats of bleach so that the process is gradual but use concentrated bleach so that the process does not take forever.

Recommendations vary, but I mix the beach with fixer rather than straight water. After bleaching, re-fix, PermaWash, and was as usual. If I know I am going to bleach a print, I will often make several copies, batch process them, and then beach the wet prints one by one. It takes some practice to do well and I am not yet that good at it.

Bleaching would be a good topic for one of the JBrunner videos.

 

[Bobby Ironsights]

There is another way to print this negative. I agree that split grade printing is probably the safest way to go, but not necessarily the giving the finest resulting print.

Instead of just playing around with the paper, why not intensify the negative with some Smith-Victor's VMI intensifier?

The chemicals aren't to be trifled with, I'll give you that, but the results are pretty damned good nes pas?

I don't know about the states, but you can get Mercuric Chloride at a good price from JDPhotochem in Quebec.

 

[Ole]

A third way: Make a "weak" print on good graded FB paper - I know this would work with Ilford Gallerie and Bergger Silver Supreme, but haven't tried it with others.

Selenium tone until the shadow areas begin to deepen. Then wash well, bleach back the dome, refix and wash well, and selenium tone until the shadow areas are as deep as you want them. These two papers, at least, show very little colour shift in selenium but a considerable deepening of the shadow areas.

 

[Jarvman]

It's not quite there yet but the split grade printing has worked well, there's some nice detail in it. I tried it again on a second neg which was alot flatter and it never worked so well. I never had time to finish printing it anyways cause we had to pack up and get out of the college darkroom at half eight. What type of prints suits split grading? Is it worth doing it for every print, most prints, some prints?

 

[tim rudman]

snip snip
What type of prints suit split grading? Is it worth doing it for every print, most prints, some prints?

Spilt grade printing is just a way of matching the exposure and the contrast to the negative and your vision of it Jarvman.
It isn't a magic wand that will give you something unique. The emulsion will only do what it has been built to do in any particular developer.
One of the reasons why so much dodging and burning gets done is often simply to rescue a mismatch between the exposure/contrast and the negative (using VC papers of course).
This means that shadows may block up and need dodging to salvage detail, or highlights blow out and need burning in.
Split grading will give you the HL and shadow detail that you choose without having to work out the contrast setting vs the exposure.It does it for you.
You then start from the best starting position to hold all the tones you want with a single exposure and all dodging and burning thereafter is for interpretation, not rescue.
If you knew what the contrast setting you got from split grading was you could get it from a single dial-in value. It really doesn't give you anything extra - EXCEPT you can dodge during the Gr 00 or Gr 5 exposure, which can be really useful.
Tim

 

[Bruce Osgood]

Jarvman

I print all prints using Split Grade. I think it uses the variable (as in Variable Contrast paper) to the fullest. A lot of people do not feel it is necessary for all prints but performs best with high contrast negatives. I wouldn't argue with them but for my work it just makes more sense to me. I use 1/2 sheet to determine the grade 00 exposure and then a full sheet to include the grade 5. In total I use 2-1/2 sheets of paper to make a really good proof print.

 

[dancqu]

I want to make the dome of the cathedral alot lighter
than it is in relation to the rest of the print

That is one poorly lit cathedral. If a cathedral it
must be I'd look for another. Some subjects are
just plain non-photogenic. Dan

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I've started split grade printing everything, just for the reasons at the end of Tim Rudman's (good) advice. You can dodge and burn at either grade 0 or grade 5. That is an awesome tool to have.
I still stand by my original suggestion, though, since the dome is so dark and almost blends into what surrounds it. It's really easy to do. There are various bleaches out there. I use whatever comes with the Kodak Sepia toner, which is Potassium Ferricyanide, but will start mixing my own soon.
What you do is set up in your bath tub unless you have a fancy darkroom sink big enough. Take a 16x20 tray and a sheet of plexi-glass that will fit inside the tray and lean the plexi-glass against the wall behind the bath tub. Take your shower hose and keep a steady stream of water going. Dilute your bleach to a weak solution and put it in a jar and then equip yourself with a second tray with fresh fixer.
Wet the print for a couple of minutes in water, and then put it on the plexiglass. It should stick without sliding down. Apply the bleach selectively with a smaller size paint brush. Keep the water running onto the print underneath the area you're bleaching so it doesn't affect the tone there. After bleaching some out, dunk it in the fixer for 30 seconds or so, then rinse it and go again. The fixer helps to arrest the bleaching action. It takes a bit of practice, but it is an incredibly useful tool to have, especially when you have very select areas such as yours to print lighter. With such a distinct edge between the dome and the surrounding air it is VERY easy to get a halo effect around it if you dodge.

Practice on a couple of prints before you start on the one you're dying to save. The cool thing is that you can do all of this in daylight. You don't need a darkroom.

Good luck,

- Thomas