Best way to clean plastic bottles?

I decided to try the 6-bath E-6 kit from Bellini, so I need at least 5 one litter bottles. The instructions make a big deal about using dedicated bottles and beakers for each chemical. I have old bottles around, but they all have been used for something else in the past.

For example, I have two plastic bottles that I stored C41 bleach in. I tried everything I could to wash them (dish soap, boiling water, leaving them filled with water overnight, etc) but I can't get rid of the bleach smell in them. Glass bottles do not have this problem BTW.

So what is it about plastic? Does it absorb chemicals and becomes impossible to 100% clean? Is there a hack you can recommend? Asking because while I have glass bottles I can use, I do not have 5 beakers for mixing.

Thanks.

Steven Lee said:

So what is it about plastic?

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There is always the possibility that the chemical permeates the surface of the plastic. I don't know that there's any plastic that can be considered absolutely non-porous. I know it seems to be - but then why does it always stain so easily?

I'd just find bottles that are good to use. Go buy a 6 pack of Coke in plastic bottles and drink them / dump them down the drain. That'll give you six serviceable bottles.

Here's an interesting tidbit: I had water + sodium carbonate in a 500 ml water bottle. I don't have a clue why, but it made a hole form in the bottom. I didn't do anything to cause it - but half the liquid leaked out before I noticed (very small hole). Plastic pop bottles use thicker plastic.

I don't clean plastic bottles used for chemicals - I reuse them with the same chemicals or throw them away.

I'm less concerned with mixing beakers, although I'm careful to have enough to use separate ones when I'm in the midst of mixing up several different chemicals.
But for storage, bleach is about the most likely to cause changes to a container as anything you might use.
I recommend re-purposing bottles that contained sparkling water - they need to be fairly strong, have a good seal, and the sparkling water that was in them is quite benign.

@Don Heisz and @MattKing the bottles I am talking about have been repurposed to storing chemistry. I do not even remember what their original purpose was, they're stripped of labels. I am very much against waste and pro reuse, so my collection of utensils is a hodge-podge of recycled stuff. That's what made me think that maybe I need specialized bottles? Perhaps they're made of better quality plastic? JOBO and Paterson tanks are also plastic, but clean easily and never retain the smell of chemicals.

I understand your dedication to reuse and recycle, I do a lot of that myself, but when it comes to chemistry I use purpose manufactured storage bottles.

In the past, I tried using any number of types of bottles, but they either leaked, were transparent or mysteriously sprang leaks that caused a huge mess. Try mopping up a 1 liter spill of stop bath from an unsealed concrete floor! Luckily my pyro did not leak too...

Now, I either invest in brown glass bottles or inexpensive black plastic bottles from Photographer's Formulary. The black plastic bottles are inert and will wash clean with no lingering smell that I can detect.


(Added bonus; when I order liquid-form TF5 fixer from them, it is shipped in the very same bottles, so I not only get fixer, but more new bottles!)

Even with this, I use a form of secondary containment in the form of low profile plastic storage bins that are built to slide under a bed for storage.

For many reasons, I might stick with the old reliable of Brown Glass Bottles. Those I know work and why take a chance on unknown interactions.

your local "Brew your own" wine makers store probably has something clean and new and glass. Glass is 100% air tight, and can be scrubbed if needed.

The "growler" bottles that can be used for filling with a craft brewer's beer (in some jurisdictions) are particularly good. Good, amber glass, good sealing caps and a fingerhold as well.
This sort of thing:

Don Heisz said:

I don't clean plastic bottles used for chemicals - I reuse them with the same chemicals or throw them away.

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Good, and when I pick it up after a while and don't remember for what it was used, I just put a little bit of the to be stored product in it and 'prepare' the bottle by swirling it and toss it...

Steven, I'd suggest deciding on a case-by-case basis. By this, I mean: determine on the basis of the chemistry involved if and how you reuse glassware/'plasticware'. For storing critical stuff like color developers, I'd suggest using glass and cleaning thoroughly before (re)use. Other things, like used fixer or toner, color bleach/blix etc are generally a little less tricky.

Re-using bottles for the same chemistry is also a good and convenient idea.

I myself only use about 10% recycled plastic bottles; the rest is glass. I do keep a lot of chemistry in plastic, but it's the factory-original packaging. Most of it is discarded when empty. As you noted, glass is easier to clean. It's not permeable. It doesn't get eaten away by nasty chemistry (although it will be etched slightly by hydroxides). Many advantages!

If you are serious about doing E6 or C41 for that matter, pitch the plastic and use glass bottles and beakers. I was using plastic bottles years ago and started to have issues and traced the problems back to plastic bottles that were not clean. Since I went to glass I haven't had any issues. Glass cleans up well with hot water. If there is any residue in a glass bottle I use these


along with vase cleaning brushes to clean the bottles. I also use a piece of wax paper over the mouth of the botlle before putting a cap on to stop any cross contamination with the cap and to keep air out. Make sure to put the proper label on the the bottles along with the date mixed

Years ago I had a post here about using clear glass mason jars for chemical storage if I kept the jars in a dark closet. Gerald Koch agreed, warning only that I needed to keep an eye on the lids. You should be able to recycle glass bottles from foods if kept the the dark.

There are few bottles better than PET beverage bottles. Not fragile like glass, but almost as impervious to oxygen. No need to be dark brown (at least in my darkroom); it's dark in there anyway. And I can usually get a fresh one for less than a dollar (last I looked, my supermarket was out of sparkling water, but had diet soda -- leaves no sugar in the bottle -- for 96 cents). Sparkling water is usually 20-25 cents less than that.

That's cheap enough to reuse for the same chemical or landfill after a good rinse out.

I don't know too much about plastics but I understand PET 1 plastic is good for chemicals

Another vote for 1 liter PET soda bottles. I like seltzer so the bottles themselves are basically free, they are shatter proof, they're way easier to remove excess air from, and they come with better sealing caps then most glass bottles I've purchased. They're a very good oxygen barrier since they're designed to keep soda carbonated on shelves for long periods of time. I've personally had ra-4 replenisher in a 2 liter soda bottle for over a year and it did not darken/oxidize at all.

The only time I don't use PET soda bottles is when I'm using EVOH wine bags for c41 replenisher.

I should have been more clear: there are two uses for bottles: for heating up chemistry prior to development, and for long term storage. For storage I have been using amber glass bottles. They work super well.

And sorry I wasn't clear: in the original question I was talking about the bottles used for heating color chemistry to 100F, like the JOBO bottles in their processors. Glass doesn't work - if you close a glass bottle with bleach it will explode, and I don't like handling wet glass anyway. The soda bottles have a narrow mouth which makes them too slow for pouring. So the need here is for plastic wide-mouth bottles.

I ordered 3 additional JOBO bottles.

juan said:

Years ago I had a post here about using clear glass mason jars for chemical storage if I kept the jars in a dark closet. Gerald Koch agreed, warning only that I needed to keep an eye on the lids. You should be able to recycle glass bottles from foods if kept the the dark.

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I use Mason Jars as a main mixed storage jar.

Their wide mouths are ideal for a fast tank fill and dump plus, you can replace the two part metal lids with water tight white plastic lids from Walmart, so no metal interactions or rust/corrosion.

I've also used plastic Ragu bottles, which take a lot of cleaning but, ones done, are very sturdy and they do no shatter like glass.

I think they are a lean darkroom choice that simply works, though a piece Saran Wrap between the metal top and jar is a must.

I've no tested the plastic Mason jar lids for a fit.

Boston brown is always good, but the narrow mouth ones should, IMO, be reserved for long lasting solutions that do no expire or grow fuzzies.

For cheap, sturdy plastic bottles, I use large and small Hydrogen Peroxide bottles, rinsed cleaned with water.

HP is H2O2 so a H2O rinse does as nice a job as you need.

These plastics are HDPE and are OK so far as I know, but things change.

By-the-way, Glad/Ziplock large square storage boxes are good for a quick darkroom printing line, for prints about 7" or 18cm square.

They take a generous amount of wet chemistry and, depending what you're developing with, will allow up to a day long/weeks long standing line.

I use Ansco 130 and all I need to do is put the lids in place, still paying attention to freshness & capacity of my other solutions.

My darkroom is actually dark, so light deteriorating effects are no a main concern but you could put a couple of black 'contractors' waste bags over your line for extended life.

Steven Lee said:

the need here is for plastic wide-mouth bottles.

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The eco-friendly pressure on manufacturers is killing you. Aquafina used to come in wide mouth bottles in the liter size, but they've been changing their packaging to reduce the total plastic mass (thinner bottles and smaller caps) for several years (they went a little too far on bottle thickness in the half-liter size and backed off a step a couple years ago; even so, it's very easy to crush the bottle when opening the cap for the first time -- don't try this while lying down in bed!).

Best I can offer is to pour from the storage bottle into a graduate (I have several 2 L size that look like an orange juice pitcher I'd keep in the fridge, as well as a 1 L the same shape and a similar 4 L one I use for mixing stock solutions), run your process, then return the solution to the storage bottle with a funnel. I've done that for a while and it works well, even with Flexicolor color developer tank solution for replenishment. Best of both worlds -- fast pouring when I need it (both into and out of my Paterson tanks) and excellent, impermeable storage between sessions.

I used to be a plastic bottle type of person, but I recently discovered the IKEA Korken glass bottles. They have a swing-out lid with a silicone gasket on them (just like spruce beer bottles) and are thus very easy to open and close. Just out of curiosity, I filled one with some diluted PQ Universal and am using it as a control. So far, it's been in that bottle for over a year and still shows no sign of oxidation. So I got a bunch more for C-41.
The bottles are a bit over 1 liter each, so I fill the remaining space with some canned air.

Xylo said:

IKEA Korken glass bottles. They have a swing-out lid with a silicone gasket on them

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These are NOT suitable for storing developers, in particular color developers. I know, because when I started out with color, I made the mistake of using similar bottles. Contrary to what you may believe, these bottles do not seal anywhere as well as the similarly looking beer bottles. Also, the 'silicone' gasket tends to become brittle under influence of the chemistry, further reducing the tightness of the seal.

A far better option are plain glass bottles with a well-fitting plastic cap. I've used those for years for all sorts of chemistry.

So far, I've had far better result with those than with the expensive air-evac bottles.
I also tried using cranberry juice bottles since they have a bigger cap that made pouring in and out super easy, but that turned out to be good only for stop bath.
To preserve the seals on my bottles, I'll just wipe everything clean before sealing them back-up. That should take care of any problem.
I should point out that the regular spruce beer bottles have rubber seals while the new IKEA ones have real silicone. What I like is that this material is not very reactive to begin with. The new ones also have an injection molded plastic stopper that is probably better than the old ceramic ones.

I've also got some C-41 that's getting to a venerable age in them and so far so good... I'll just cross my fingers and hope it all goes well.

But I must agree that a good well sealing plastic screw-on cap is pretty hard to beat.

Well, good luck and Godspeed. I hope you're right, but my experience says otherwise.

Well, so far it's working for the PQ Universal and the Rapid Fix... so even if it's just for that I'm happy

Watch out with the C41 developer. The bleach and fix will be OK, but C41 developer won't survive long in those bottles I'm afraid. Especially if you're just starting out with color, odds are that you don't notice how your developer is going off until it has gone way downhill.

I believe I've overlooked a good glass option by no considering the Nescafe, large and extra large heavy glass bottles.

I've put aside a few dozen of these for mixed painting jars, because of their wide mouths, secure lids and heavy glass construction and, because I now use Mason Ball jars, also with wide mouths, etc, and Ragu sauce jars, plastic, I failed to even consider that s option.

Leave the jar lids paper liner in the top, wash as normal, and if you want to be extra secure in your solutions, use some Saran Wrap between jar and lid.

Godspeed to all, I hope this helps.