Best Strategy for 2L-at-a-time C-41 Developing

[cbphoto]

I guess that's what I'll do then! Thanks.

 

[RPC]

I have stored unused Kodak RA-4 and C-41 developers more than three years without degradation using the storage method I described earlier. Others on this site have posted similar experiences. Despite this, there continue to be those here who think color developers have short lives and in some cases deters them from doing color processing. I guess Kodak's literature is a big part of the problem. Perhaps there should be a sticky thread on this subject.

 

[cbphoto]

I have stored unused Kodak RA-4 and C-41 developers more than three years without degradation using the storage method I described earlier. Others on this site have posted similar experiences. Despite this, there continue to be those here who think color developers have short lives and in some cases deters them from doing color processing. I guess Kodak's literature is a big part of the problem. Perhaps there should be a sticky thread on this subject.

The Mason jar idea sounds a lot better than soda bottles, both in terms of air tightness and not being an eyesore.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I have tried freezing color developers and it caused the ingredients to visibly separate. Then, upon thawing I had to shake it up to make it uniform, further oxidizing it. I don't recommend it. Mixed developers keep a long time if stored unfrozen in full, tightly sealed glass or high quality plastic bottles. That is the best way to store them.

Thanks for that. I'll make a techno-guess and say that whatever oxygenating took place with shaking, it was far less degradation than just plain old age, sitting around at room temperature. Or, possibly, just waiting a day w/o shaking and the components would redisolve. OTOH, there was that Shutterbug article I mentioned and he apparently froze and thawed as he needed. A YMMV moment?

If one doesn't want/can't do freezing, even refrigeration would give a big leg up on longevity.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Freezing causes ingredients to separate or crystallize and the shaking and mixing entrain oxygen and cause deterioration when you are trying to re-dissolve the chemistry.

In plastic bottles, the organics WILL exchange with food! Ever notice that "freezer" or "refrigerator" taste food sometimes takes on when strong food is stored in them? Consider that developer is a strong food with a high rate of exchange. DON'T freeze developer. Probably you should not freeze any of the solutions. Bleach, blix and fix will begin to give your food an ammonia odor and the final rinse is a bacteriostat which should not be ingested but which can also exchange in the freezer.

There are many air displacement methods and gases specially prepared for this. Even winos should know that CO2 is bad for wine. It adds extra acidity and can spoil wine as well as developer. Use a non-CO2 gas mix. Use glass with corks, use accordion bottles, use marbles. Or, use the developer to capacity in one session and toss it.

PE

PUH-leeze! With all due respect of your expertise. No, I've never had chemicals magically jump into my food across plastic and air barriers. Come on, the whole purpose of freezing foods is that it becomes inert, other than dehydration, i.e. "freezer burn." I can take a freezer Zip-lock of food, pour deverloper over it, and the food will not be contaminated.

Are you onboard with butane/propane air replacement?

 

[Paul Verizzo]

My freezer is already full, unfortunately, and I have no space for another. Inert gas seems to be the most elegant solution, so I just need a specific product recommendation.

Eat some of your food? 2L is not a huge volume.

If perchance you have an old fashioned propane torch or a butane lighter refill, that should suffice, as best as I know. But no ""no oxygen" therapy can get around the fact that once a developer is used, it is on the road to perdition.

 

[cbphoto]

Eat some of your food? 2L is not a huge volume.

If perchance you have an old fashioned propane torch or a butane lighter refill, that should suffice, as best as I know. But no ""no oxygen" therapy can get around the fact that once a developer is used, it is on the road to perdition.

Unfortunately, I have to mix all 10L to avoid having to preserve the concentrates and measure all that stuff out each time. I found some hermetic glass mason-style jars locally that are measured in liters, so I'll mix up 5 of those for the developer. The fixer in the Trebla kit is 3 x 5 liter of working solution, and the bleach is one gallon. I don't think I'll need to divide these up any further.

Once I use a 2L jar of developer, it will get used all at once (I shoot in bursts). It's those in between periods that I was concerned about, when I'm not shooting a lot of color.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Paul;

Food and organic chemicals do exchange volatiles. If you do not believe me, than go ahead.

PE

 

[RPC]

I'll make a techno-guess and say that whatever oxygenating took place with shaking, it was far less degradation than just plain old age, sitting around at room temperature. Or, possibly, just waiting a day w/o shaking and the components would redisolve. OTOH, there was that Shutterbug article I mentioned and he apparently froze and thawed as he needed. A YMMV moment?

If one doesn't want/can't do freezing, even refrigeration would give a big leg up on longevity.

As I indicated earlier the developer can last more than three years without degradation, and this is at room temperature. In fact it's color hardly changes. So one not even need consider freezing or refrigeration. And why take up space in your fridge or freezer?

 

[Paul Verizzo]

As I indicated earlier the developer can last more than three years without degradation, and this is at room temperature. In fact it's color hardly changes. So one not even need consider freezing or refrigeration. And why take up space in your fridge or freezer?

I did see and note that, RPC. Unused, right?

Space I got. It's not exactly a side of buffalo in volume.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

"Food and organic chemicals do exchange volatiles. If you do not believe me, than go ahead. PE"

Come on. At zero degrees Fahrenheit? Through plastic or other barriers?

 

[fotch]

"Food and organic chemicals do exchange volatiles. If you do not believe me, than go ahead. PE"

Come on. At zero degrees Fahrenheit? Through plastic or other barriers?

Maybe it does affect a persons ability to think or reason.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Paul;

We divided up a celery root (celeriac) to use some and freeze the rest. Our freezer is below zero. Within a few weeks, the entire freezer smelled of celery. The taste spread, and even today nearly 10 years later, there is still a hint of the odor. The celery odor compound is an organic chemical not that much different in molecular weight and vapor pressure than some of the volatiles in color developers.

Enjoy your food.

PE

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Maybe it does affect a persons ability to think or reason.

Not at all.....not at all.....not at all....

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Paul;

We divided up a celery root (celeriac) to use some and freeze the rest. Our freezer is below zero. Within a few weeks, the entire freezer smelled of celery. The taste spread, and even today nearly 10 years later, there is still a hint of the odor. The celery odor compound is an organic chemical not that much different in molecular weight and vapor pressure than some of the volatiles in color developers.

Enjoy your food.

PE

And this was in, for instance, heavy duty, sealed freezer bags?

 

[cbphoto]

On a related note, did you know that celery contains pheromones that attract women? PE, have you noticed girls hovering around your freezer after this incident?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Most people are more interested in the photographic materials IN the freezer. In unopened original packages I might add.

And the celeriac was in aluminum foil and DOUBLE bagged, because I wanted it to keep the odor and freshness in.

So, how many here who freeze or refrigerate photographic solutions double bag?

PE

 

[cbphoto]

FYI - Today I picked up 5 of these in a 2L size, and one in 5L: Dead Link Removed

There are certainly cheaper jars out there, but all of the others I was finding were measured in ounces.

 

[MattKing]

Those would probably work reasonably well, with the following concerns:

That 5L jar in particular would be quite heavy, and all of them would be a bit slippery.

I would also recommend that you dedicate each jar to a particular chemical, because the seals may absorb chemicals.

It might be a good idea to have some extra seals on hand.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I use Jobo containers. They are the thickest plastic containers with the best protection that I have seen. They come in frosted and black.

PE

 

[cbphoto]

These were easy to find, and I need to mix this stuff and start developing this week. I plan to just use these for storage, and will use my 64oz Datatainers for warming up and pouring into the tank.