Best pre-1965 SLR

Paul Howell · Sep 1, 2021

I got shot with a 11e for a week. A friend's wife uncle passed away, no children of his own and she inherited his estate. He worked for a university in the biology department and used it for field work. Takes a bit of time to get use it, not a thumb wind, but smooth as silk, has jeweled movements, the Kern 50, I can see why Leica shooters have them converted. When I returned it they sold it though a auction site, not Ebay, never asked what they for it.

tomkatf · Sep 1, 2021

ozmoose said:
I've been into Nikkormats since the early model FT. Best cameras around. Built like thanks and go on going on forever and then some.

The most outstandingly good 'mats I owned were the FTNs and the FT2s BUT both post-date 1965. So not really playing fair here, am I? Ha!! The ELs were also excellent shooters altho much younger and fully electronic, so again, not quite fair play.

Now to play the devil's advocate again...

Unless you are really, truly lucky, whichever 'oldie' SLR you end up buying, you'll 99.5% surely have to add at least 2x to 10x the cost you pay for it, to get it working properly again. They are ancient things and like all us old ancient things - okay, enough said.

The first Nikkormats (FT and FS) came out in '65... Cheating by a couple of years('67?) but my all time favorite is the Nikkormat FTn...

Down Under · Sep 1, 2021

tomkatf said:
The first Nikkormats (FT and FS) came out in '65... Cheating by a couple of years('67?) but my all time favorite is the Nikkormat FTn...

Good to know. I recall the first FTNs were being advertised in photo magazines, in those good old long ago days when we all bought and read these, in 1967, the year I went to work as a uni student at Expo '67 in Montreal - I was a junior PR grunt and it seemed to me every second pro shooter on the Expo site had a 'mat as well as an F. Old, old memories here, that was 54 years ago. Anyway, many thanks!!

Of all the Nikkormats, it seems (to me anyway) the FTNs are the most common models still in use. I used two in my time before moving up to ELs (which worked for many years, I finally sold them last year to someone who is using them still and loves them) and then bought two FT2 which I still have/use/intend to keep forever.

In my experience, the FTNs were even more robust than the FT2s tho the latter seem more 'ergonomic' to me, as they probably are as they are much newer (mid 1970s). Certainly Nikkormats were built to last, perhaps even more so than the Nikon Fs or at least their equal, given they are somewhat less versatile (user-friendly?) with that odd speeds 'wheel' on the lens mount and fewer accessories available like WLFs and screens, but the difference was they were amateur models and the Fs were designed for pro use.

Enough of this. It suffices to say many many 1965 or older cameras are still in use. As long as we accept their greatest limitation is when they break down they may be impossible to repair if spare parts are needed, long may they go on shooting.

RLangham · Sep 2, 2021

Nikkormats are good and all... but for the FT-series there are some things left to be desired (and I've used one as my main camera before). I like the idea of a shutter speed dial around the lens, but let's face it, the OM-1 does it so much better. If they had just put some grips on it so I could change it with the same motion as changing the aperture... then it would be a fantastically ergonomic camera. But instead they made it slick and flush so that I am restricted to using the little nub, which I cannot for the life of me make ergonomical. Secondly, it took until what, the FT2? for them to address the fact that, on the first two models, the film speed slider SUCKS. Like I can't physically move it without hurting my fingers. That's poor design.

If I feel the need to use my single Nikon lens, my F2SB has all the advantages and none of the drawbacks.

Like, I encourage people to buy Nikkormats. It's one of the most economical choices for a really good reliable mechanical SLR. But it's never gonna be the best camera to me.

madNbad · Sep 2, 2021

I’ve owned a lot of Nikkormats. Including the FT FTn and FT2 mostly but a couple of years ago I found a really nice early run FS. No meter to go bad and one of the hardest to find of all the Nikon products. Official counts state manufacturing started in 1965 and ended in 1971 with approximately 20,000 built. Real world numbers have the line coming to an end sometime in 1968 with about 16,000 to 17,000 actually out the door due to dismal sales. It’s interesting to see how the line developed over the years from the early single slot take up spool and the flush frame counter. I thought about selling the FS and even had it on consignment at a local shop for the last six months. No buyers could understand why a Nikkormat would be twice the price of what they were expecting and didn’t even have a meter. Guess I’ll hang on to it.

Down Under · Sep 2, 2021

madNbad said:
I’ve owned a lot of Nikkormats. FT, FTn and FT2 mostly but a couple of years ago I found a really nice early run FS. No meter to go bad and one of the hardest to find of all the Nikon products. Official counts state manufacturing started in 1965 and ended in 1971 with approximately 20,000 built. Real world numbers have the line coming to an end sometime in 1968 with about 16,000 to 17,000 actually out the door due to dismal sales. It’s interesting to see how the line developed over the years from the early single slot take up spool and the flush frame counter. I thought about selling the FS and even had it on consignment at a local shop for the last six months. No buyers could understand why a Nikkormat would be twice the price of what they were expecting and didn’t even have a meter. Guess I’ll hang on to it.

Interesting. I use my FT2s without the meter, having got tired of buying expensive batteries for it. I usually carry an FT2 and either a Weston Master V or one of my Gossens. The readjustment curve took a little time, but I'm now used to it, and as I tend to shoot quite static images anyway, or I set the cameras on Sweet 16, it hasn't caused me any problems at all.

A minimalist solution...

You should hang on to your FTs and FSs. Here in Australia, they are regarded as collectables, and often sell for 2x the price of the with meter Nikkormats. Good one...

benjiboy · Sep 21, 2021

Pioneer said:
My vote goes to the Pentax Spotmatic. One of the most successful cameras ever with a built-in meter and multiple lens manufacturers competing amongst themselves to make lenses for it. Introduced in 1964 and continued to 1973.

The Nikon F was popular among newshounds but I would be willing to bet that most of them were carrying the Nikon because their newspaper bought it. Most of them would have rather been packing the Spottie.

I don't know if you know this Pioneer but Pentax originally planned for the Spotmatic to have a spotmeter but decided at the last minute that it would be too complicated an exposure system for the general public to use.

Pioneer · Sep 21, 2021

benjiboy said:
I don't know if you know this Pioneer but Pentax originally planned for the Spotmatic to have a spotmeter but decided at the last minute that it would be too complicated an exposure system for the general public to use.

I do understand that the prototype did have the spotmeter. Lots of speculation why the final product came with a center averaging meter. However it came about, it was a very popular camera that was amazingly successful. It may even have been too successful as some feel it may have delayed Pentax from moving to the bayonet mount. I will admit that I personally have a soft spot for the ESII and still use mine quite frequently.

Disappointed_Horse · Sep 21, 2021

Objectively I think the Nikon F would have been the best for its durability, reliability and build quality, but I have no personal experience with them. Subjectively, I would prefer the Pentax Spotmatic and SL. I have one of each. Just solid, simple, well-made cameras, and the Takumar M42 lenses are fantastic. They may not have been built as tough as the Nikons, but they were plenty durable enough for anything short of a war zone. Mine are still going strong after 50 years.

AgX · Sep 21, 2021

benjiboy said:
I don't know if you know this Pioneer but Pentax originally planned for the Spotmatic to have a spotmeter but decided at the last minute that it would be too complicated an exposure system for the general public to use.

And at this forgot to change the name...

Disappointed_Horse · Sep 21, 2021

"Center-Weighted-Matic" didn't have quite the same ring as Spotmatic.

benjiboy · Sep 21, 2021

Pioneer said:
I do understand that the prototype did have the spotmeter. Lots of speculation why the final product came with a center averaging meter. However it came about, it was a very popular camera that was amazingly successful. It may even have been too successful as some feel it may have delayed Pentax from moving to the bayonet mount. I will admit that I personally have a soft spot for the ESII and still use mine quite frequently.

Although I have never owned a Pentax Pioneer, I have sold more of them when I worked in photographic retailing for more than 25 years I have sold more of
them than you have had hot dinners.

AgX · Sep 21, 2021

My comment was not to be taken too serious. I mean, was there already in 1964 a handheld spot-metering device and was that "spot" term already known to possible buyers?
I don't think so.

Paul Howell · Sep 21, 2021

AAlfano said:
Objectively I think the Nikon F would have been the best for its durability, reliability and build quality, but I have no personal experience with them. Subjectively, I would prefer the Pentax Spotmatic and SL. I have one of each. Just solid, simple, well-made cameras, and the Takumar M42 lenses are fantastic. They may not have been built as tough as the Nikons, but they were plenty durable enough for anything short of a war zone. Mine are still going strong after 50 years.

Other than the cloth shutter vs titanium the spotmatic was pretty rugged, many newspapers and freelanced photogerhers used Spotmatics. My spotmatic outlasted my F, F2 and 3P, the meter is a little wonky, mechanically still smooth last time I had it serviced was in the late 80s. I bought it in 1966, got it at a pawn shop in Long Beach Ca. when Long Beach was still a Navy town. The guy behind the counter said a Navy Officer Pawned it and never came back for it. Came as a set, the body, 50, 35 and 135 in a leather bag.

BradS · Sep 21, 2021

Pentax Spotmatic and it's predecessor, the Pentax S1a (aka H1a here in the US) and of course, the Nikon F cannot be dismissed.
The Spotmatic and the Nikon F are obviously of considerable historic significance

Helge · Sep 21, 2021

Did any M42 Pentax ever come with spot metering?

Spot metering can be very useful. But it is very easy to get wrong and misunderstand by a naive beginner.
Most noob amateurs think, no matter how clearly you think you explained, that it’s about pointing at the object you want to expose for, instead of determining the midpoint for exposure.

This can lead to some quite drastic wrong exposures. But worse still, some that are just a little off compared to one with a better center weighted measurement.

Really good spot metering also involves measuring two or more points and ascertaining the right exposure that way, not necessarily as an average, but a weighing based on experience.

Disappointed_Horse · Sep 21, 2021

Paul Howell said:
Other than the cloth shutter vs titanium the spotmatic was pretty rugged, many newspapers and freelanced photogerhers used Spotmatics. My spotmatic outlasted my F, F2 and 3P, the meter is a little wonky, mechanically still smooth last time I had it serviced was in the late 80s. I bought it in 1966, got it at a pawn shop in Long Beach Ca. when Long Beach was still a Navy town. The guy behind the counter said a Navy Officer Pawned it and never came back for it. Came as a set, the body, 50, 35 and 135 in a leather bag.

Nice find! I bought my first M42 Pentax (a Spotmatic) a little more recently. I found it languishing in an old camera shop in Tampa in 2018 and offered $20 for it (and its 50mm f/1.4 Super Takumar lens). I walked out of that store a happy man. The battery cover is stripped, and I can't get it off to put in a fresh battery to see if the meter works, but otherwise it works fine. The shutter speeds seem accurate and I have not had any light leaks. A sticker inside the the back cover indicates it was last serviced in 1989.

My SL is a newer purchase—I found it on sale on ebay last year but the seller was local so I purchased it for $30 face-to-face. A few weeks later I found another lens to go with it—a 50mm f/1.4 (this one a Super Multi Coated Takumar)—at a garage sale a few weeks later for $17. I had Eric service both the SL and lens so they should be good to go for another 30 years or so. I liked it so much I bought the T-shirt.

2021-05-17 Pentax SL by Aaron Alfano, on Flickr

Best pre-1965 SLR

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