Best pre-1965 SLR

[Pioneer]

Between Nikon and Leica you can't hardly wade through the thick soup of BS that surrounds these two brands. The main claim to fame that the Nikon F had was its modularity. That and Nikon Professional Services, or what ever it was called back then. No matter how many times you repeat the myth there was nothing particularly special about their lenses, bellows, blah, blah, blah. Minolta had all the same things only they were better.

Don't misunderstand me, the Nikon F really was a good camera. But it was just a big Legos kit and guys love Legos. "Oh look what I can do...I take this off and put this other thingy in its place and now it is different. How cool! And so did their companies. Something breaks, take it off, toss it out and replace it with another. It was the same concept that Cadillac brought to the table for automobile repair. Easily replaceable parts. Even the guy in the field could replace the parts. You did not have to send it back to the factory to be hand fitted and adjusted so it would work.

No one here really cares about digital cameras but that modularity could not be repeated by Nikon when digital came on the scene. By that time Canon really had developed some excellent cameras and lenses and their products made the transfer to digital just fine. Nikon had to rely on the old traditions and myths that started with the original Nikon F but it is getting pretty obvious from their recent sales data that the legend isn't holding up very well. Now you can't fix it in the field, you have to send it in to Nikon USA. And they are just not very fast at fixing their products.

 

[wiltw]

Your teenage years were very different then mine ....
I think that the question in this thread begs another question.
When you talk about best, do you mean now, or back then (say in 1965)?

I think the Super D was one of the best of its time. It ravalled the Nikon F as a rugged pro quality SLR with a full system of accessories. At the time, before Nikon had more decades to broaden the Nikon mount set of lenses, Beseler and Nikon both had about the same number of lenses. My teen lust was for 'the best' of its time, as I considered the Nikon F Photomic T to be an inferior impmentation of TTL metering..if you took off the pentaprism for photomicroscopy, the metering was gone on the Nikon.

 

[MattKing]

I think the Super D was one of the best of its time. It ravalled the Nikon F as a rugged pro quality SLR with a full system of accessories. At the time, before Nikon had more decades to broaden the Nikon mount set of lenses, Beseler and Nikon both had about the same number of lenses. My teen lust was for 'the best' of its time, as I considered the Nikon F Photomic T to be an inferior impmentation of TTL metering.

All I was saying, is that during my teenage years (which in my case started in 1969), it wasn't SLRs that were the subject of my teenage lust.

 

[wiltw]

All I was saying, is that during my teenage years (which in my case started in 1969), it wasn't SLRs that were the subject of my teenage lust.

I had dual interests. Photography was not merely a hobby as a teen, I was also shooting professionally at the time...headshots and fashion work. So I could spend more on dates. Unobtainium, curiously, affected acquisiton of either!

 

[RLangham]

In 1965 Exakta didn't even have an instant return mirror. The Exakta dates from the days of the Zepplin, and never really changed that much from it's original mid-30's design.

Instant return mirror is not something I particularly desire.
Why should the camera be able to frame and compose a shot that it can't take?

 

[Ian Grant]

I want to hear your opinions and frankly I want to see some arguments. What's the best 35mm SLR from before 65? It's my favorite era and type of cameras and I want to hear what you think was the best one.

I would say the Exakta Varex line and Nikon F are a close tie but what do yall think?

The KW Praktina cameras were vastly superior to the Exacta Varex models, they were the first professional full SLR system cameras with bulk backs, two different motor drives, finders etc, plus a huge array of lenses from numerous German manufacturers. The Nikon F was the camera that brought about their demise and the company dropped the Prakina but continued with their Praktica. After mergers with Zeiss Ikon (Dresden) who made the Contax SLRs the new WVEB Pentacon models carried the Praktica or Pentacon name.

Ian

 

[Bikerider]

My vote goes to the Pentax Spotmatic. One of the most successful cameras ever with a built in meter and multiple lens manufacturers competing amongst themselves to make lenses for it. Introduced in 1964 and continued to 1973.

I will go along with that. My 1st Pentax in 1963 was a Pentax SV and I had various others/makes afterwards, but the Pentax SP11 was my all time favourite for handling and quality of results. Asahi in UK at the time of the SP11 ran an advert which read simply 'Just hold a Pentax' with a picture of an SP11 in someones hands. That for me says it all.No other embellishment is needed. (I would still love a good, little used SV, but they are a little scarce now in good condition).

 

[Ian Grant]

I will go along with that. My 1st Pentax in 1963 was a Pentax SV and I had various others/makes afterwards, but the Pentax SP11 was my all time favourite for handling and quality of results. Asahi in UK at the time of the SP11 ran an advert which read simply 'Just hold a Pentax' with a picture of an SP11 in someones hands. That for me says it all.No other embellishment is needed. (I would still love a good, little used SV, but they are a little scarce now in good condition).

It was a series of adverts featuring some well known photographers, Terence Donovan was one. I picked up a near mint SV just before the first lockdown , it came with its meter and and a 55mm f2 SMC Takumar (with full aperture metering coupling) for £10. I usea Spotmatic F and two S1a cameras professionally for quite a few years, lovely to hold and work with and simple to use and.

Ian

 

[Helge]

The Zunow SLR.

One of the most ambitious cameras ever produced and a beautiful, clean design with that fantastic logo!
I have held one and looked through the finder with the 1.2 lens on.
100% view and just nuts bright for a ground glass finder.
This is not only most likely the best pre 65 SLR, it's one of the greatest SLRs ever full stop.

It was notorious for being unreliable, most likely due to the sheer number of new things being attempted at once. But surviving specimens are likely to have seen a full overhaul at some point.

The lenses, from the few samples I've seen, is absolutely up to the best from Topcon, Nikon and Minolta. And they are unusually fast for their vintage.

They are very very expensive on the used market, so probably no what this thread is really about. But now I took the title literally.

 

[Helge]

My personal favourite that I own:
Praktica FX 2.

One of the best waist finders for a 135 SLR I've tried. Love the fact that you can fire the shutter halfway, release the mirror and then wait till you are ready to fire the actual shutter.
It's noisy and clunky and certainly uglier than its predecessor, the FX. But in a charming way.
Just a barebones M42 with no stupid custom stopdown mount that gets in the way or scratches lenses.
Second in line only to my Icarex 35S TM for M42.
The winder is surprisingly nice to operate. Not at all the finger ripping feeling you are treated to on most knob winders.
For some reason I like it better than my Exa 1 TM.

 

[Paul Howell]

I think one of the reasons Nikon edged out Topcon was support, Nikon invested in building up repair services in most major cities. And to piggy back on what has been said, AP, UPI, NYT, LAT, and many other newspapers and wire services bought into Nikon. One of the reason I traded in my Konica t for a Nikon was for the motor drive and the fact that I could memo out lens and backs.

 

[RLangham]

My personal favourite that I own:
Praktica FX 2.

View attachment 284062

One of the best waist finders for a 135 SLR I've tried. Love the fact that you can fire the shutter halfway, release the mirror and then wait till you are ready to fire the actual shutter.
It's noisy and clunky and certainly uglier than its predecessor, the FX. But in a charming way.
Just a barebones M42 with no stupid custom stopdown mount that gets in the way or scratches lenses.
Second in line only to my Icarex 35S TM for M42.
The winder is surprisingly nice to operate. Not at all the finger ripping feeling you are treated to on most knob winders.
For some reason I like it better than my Exa 1 TM.

I've had an FX and a F.X3, and currently I have a first model from 1950. I was no too fond of the redesigned hood on the F.X3, but at least the pentaprism attachment is better than the one for the original hood.
I have found that these tend to cap at high speeds and exhibit other strange behaviors... probably par for the course with their age.
I have the original Exa as well and frankly... I think the WLF on it is better, and there's no disputing thst it has better pentaprism attachments available.

 

[Helge]

I've had an FX and a F.X3, and currently I have a first model from 1950. I was no too fond of the redesigned hood on the F.X3, but at least the pentaprism attachment is better than the one for the original hood.
I have found that these tend to cap at high speeds and exhibit other strange behaviors... probably par for the course with their age.
I have the original Exa as well and frankly... I think the WLF on it is better, and there's no disputing thst it has better pentaprism attachments available.

Maybe it’s just confirmation bias because I detest box shutters.
Just had the camera out (FX). The finder is even better than I remember. So bright!
Tells you a thing or two about why they didn’t put penta finders on sooner.

 

[RLangham]

Maybe it’s just confirmation bias because I detest box shutters.
Just had the camera out (FX). The finder is even better than I remember. So bright!
Tells you a thing or two about why they didn’t put penta finders on sooner.

The box shutters have their shortcomings... but overall I find the lens availability makes up for it.

I just received the prism finder for the original Praktica in the mail day before yesterday and... it's so bad! I love it but it's so bad.

 

[Cholentpot]

How about the 1965 Konica Auto-Reflex . . . shutter speed auto exposure, full or half frame selectable.

Auto-Reflex by Les DMess, on Flickr

Another one of my grail cams.

 

[narsuitus]

What's the best 35mm SLR from before 65?

Before 1965, I had been using medium format cameras. Around 1966/1967, I started shopping for a 35mm SLR. Here are the cameras I considered:
Nikon F (1959)
Bessler Topcon (1963)
Canon FX (1964)
Asahi Pentax Spotmatic (1964)
Canon Pellix (1965)
Miranda Sensorex (1966)
Mamiya/Sekor 500 TL (1966)
Mamiya/Sekor 1000 TL (1966)

The photographers at the newspaper where I was working advised me to get a Nikon F. The photo lab at the college I was attending used the Bessler Topcon. A photographer who lived in my dorm used two Canon Pellix cameras. A friend loaned me his Asahi Pentax Spotmatic with an 8-element 50mm f/1.4 lens. Consumer Reports Magazine gave the Miranda Sensorex a glowing review.

I decided on a brand new Miranda Sensorex. Big mistake! The Sensorex broke twice within a short period of time.

Since then, I have used Nikon and Pentax Spotmatic SLRs and recommend either as the best 35mm SLR cameras from before 1965.

 

[AgX]

I follow this discussion with a grin on my face... Because from my perspective, not yours, this is completely academic.

If I look at photo catalogs from various sources aimed at consumers at stationary stores in West-Germany from that period, there is not one japanese camera listed. Not one.


Where they do show up, in small number, are at the two major mail order stores.in West-Germany that sold cameras.
Those were their entry into the westgerman market. By my own perception of incidence of pre-1970 japanese SLRs at camera stores, their share was small.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Has anyone suggested the original Leicaflex from 1964? Gorgeous craftsmanship and superb Leica R 1-cam lenses. It is not the "best" (whatever that means), but fully usable today.

https://www.mikeeckman.com/2020/08/leicaflex-1964/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leicaflex

 

[Hawkeye]

My vote goes to the Pentax Spotmatic. One of the most successful cameras ever with a built in meter and multiple lens manufacturers competing amongst themselves to make lenses for it. Introduced in 1964 and continued to 1973.

The Nikon F was popular among newshounds but I would be willing to bet that most of them were carrying the Nikon because their newspaper bought it. Most of them would have rather been packing the Spottie.

This!!

 

[RLangham]

My vote goes to the Pentax Spotmatic. One of the most successful cameras ever with a built in meter and multiple lens manufacturers competing amongst themselves to make lenses for it. Introduced in 1964 and continued to 1973.

The Nikon F was popular among newshounds but I would be willing to bet that most of them were carrying the Nikon because their newspaper bought it. Most of them would have rather been packing the Spottie.

I can only understand the hype around these when I remind myself how early they were and how rare TTL metering was. To me, outside of that historical context the weight and size are the main selling points to me. Obviously the lenses are topnotch but I could use them on any other m42 camera... including a Mamiya Sekor with an actual spot meter, or a Chinon with a better shutter.

What's the appeal? I own one and I'm not sure why I do.

 

[Wallendo]

This thread makes me feel downright young (I was born in 1960). I do, however, own several of the cameras discussed.
I some ways, I am partial to the Minolta SR-1. It is solidly built and does what it is supposed to. Unfortunately, my experience has been that a lot of older Minolta cameras were not as well cared-for as Nikons and often have defects.
I have 2 functional Nikkormats (one with a reliable meter), but they just missed the cutoff.
I own a few Spotmatic cameras which let me use my m42 lenses natively, but find them more challenging to use than the others.

I remember coveting SLR's growing up, but for various reasons, didn't actually buy one until around 2000 and didn't get into classic SLR's for another 10 years after that.

 

[Bill Burk]

Does anyone have Alpa on their list (thinking machine precision)

 

[4season]

Depends on what your criteria of "best" is (Size? Weight? Ease of use? Build quality?). I figure Nikon F is really the standout choice of the era. Design is very typical of a Nikon flagship product: Very conservative, sticking with proven technologies but built to the highest standard. Not so much a jewel as a professional tool.

Edit: Removed reference to Topcon, as it seems that the Super was released in the 1960s.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I would like to withdraw my nomination of the boring, stodgy, establishment Nikon F. Because back then, like others, I read Consumer Reports' glowing review of how the Nikon F system was bested by the Miranda Sensorex. So I bought a Miranda.

I would, therefore, like to nominate the Miranda Sensorex as the best mid-60's SLR. It satisfies the major requirement for a 'best' camera - I owned one; I mean, if it wasn't the best camera around I would never have bought it, right?

(The problem with keeping my tongue in my cheek is how it really gets in the way of me eating my breakfast without biting my tongue - which I should have done and avoided this thread entirely. That @#$%! Miranda was even less reliable than the (merely @#!) Exakta it replaced.)

On a more serious note, the reason I didn't buy a Nikon F at the time was I couldn't afford one. Even more so when the F2 came out. I think many were in the same boat at the time and so there may still be some feelings of 'sour grapes.'

Maybe a better discussion would be what was the best mid-60's mid-tier SLR?

Then a discussion comparing the Contarex, the Alpa and the Leicaflex.

 

[Paul Howell]

Does anyone have Alpa on their list (thinking machine precision)

Good point, not sure which Alpa model was on the market in 1965, maybe the 6, has external uncoupled light meter?