Best practices and chemicals for "environment safe" workflow

[foen]

Hi guys,
I'm just working for a projects for environment keeping in my country so I'm guessing which are the bests products/chemicals and practices in analog development and printing for who cares about the environment, water care and human/animal health.


A short list :

film development:

- Rodinal or XTOL ( acid ascorbic ) in rotary processor
- citric acid
- fix ?

print development:

- Develop ? ( hydroquinone free print develop )
- citric acid
- fix ?
- toning ?



What about papers and films?



Thank you in advance for your suggests

Henry

 

[koraks]

Hi guys,
- Rodinal or XTOL ( acid ascorbic ) in rotary processor

XTOL or even better: caffenol.

- citric acid

Fine, but you can also use plain water if you want to reduce any amount of any kind of chemistry you use. Evidently either citric or acetic acid by themselves have insignificant environmental load, but production always comes at the cost of energy etc.

- fix ?

Probably plain sodium or ammonium thiosulfate, for the same reason outlined above (fewer components), although there may be a balance between longevity of the fix (i.e. more sustainable due to repeated use) and reduction of number of chemicals needed. Evidently in your case you'd want to make sure the used fixer is processed as required, making sure that no silver ends up in the environment.

- Develop ? ( hydroquinone free print develop )

You can look into developers like Moersch Eco (which could be an ascorbic acid/phenidone developer, but I don't know for sure), or be adventurous and use again caffenol or something similar. In case of the latter, you will have to live with some staining/'toning'.

- citric acid
- fix ?

See above.

- toning ?

Given your situation and environmental focus, I'd forego any kind of metal-based toning if you want to be consistent in your ideology.

What about papers and films?

Concerning papers, I suspect that RC papers may in the end be the most environmentally friendly choice:
* The pulp/fibers used can be of lesser quality (shorter) than in fiber-based paper.
* Significantly less wash water is consumed.
But it'll be very hard to draft a reliable life-cycle assessment for either paper or film. So I think you'll end up with whatever 'feels' best to you.

Evidently, if you want to be truly environmentally friendly, you resist the urge to do any darkroom work (or photography altogether, do not eat meat, do not drive a car, in fact do not move any more than necessary, live in a clay hut etc. - you'll have to draw the line somewhere.)

 

[Pieter12]

Not sure how it compares to other film developers, but Rodinal is on the nasty side.

 

[markbau]

Remember that emulsions are made from gelatin and we all know where that comes from!

 

[NedL]

These "environment-friendly" kinds of questions often focus on the characteristics of the chemicals used, but often there is a bigger picture to think about. Here are a few thoughts:

Some hydroquinone print developers might be the best because they can be used replenished ( Ansco 130 has hydroquinone and glycin, and I think LPD has hydroquinone and phenidone ), so there is very little waste produced. Only a few ml of carryover per print. There might be a non-hydroquinone replenish-able print developer that I don't know about, but the point is that if you can avoid making waste in the first place, that can be most important.

Xtol can be used replenished for film development. Not sure which others.
( And hydroquinone-containing HC-110 is convenient to mix up only the amount needed, which produces minimal waste )

Using fixer to the capacity recommended by the manufacturer will reduce the amount of silver-bearing waste considerably.

I re-use my acetic acid stop until it loses it's "vinegar smell".

Selenium toner can be replenished so that the only waste is from carryover. ( And this is a good example -- reducing the waste to nearly nothing must be better than disposing of excess at each toning session )

These "reuse" steps are sometimes easier and more convenient than the more common "fill tray and dump at the end of session" approach because the working solutions are sitting in bottles ready to use at any time. I'm not sure why they haven't become more popular.

In other processes, it's often possible to mix only the amount needed. For a salted paper print, you can mix only the amount of fix ( hypo ) and toner needed for that print. This reduces the amount of waste considerably.

Water.

Water is complicated. At my house, the water comes from a well and the geologist thinks we have a separate local aquifer. The groundwater level goes up and down about the same amount in drought years and rainy years. There aren't many neighbors so there aren't many other wells. Some waste water probably makes its way back to the ground water ( not completely closed system because evaporation ). "Saving water" doesn't really do anything relevant to California's big water problems, because our supply is essentially separate.

Some neighbors about a mile away were in exactly the same situation, but after the 1989 earthquake their wells dried up and they had to dig very deep wells and the new wells have much less capacity -- so they need to cooperate with each other and try to conserve.

One nearby town gets all their water from 3 deep borehole wells and they greedily over-pump ( to sell the excess ) and have made nearby neighborhood wells go dry. Their waste goes into a river after treatment.

Another nearby city gets their water from a river and puts their waste back into that river. When the reservoir feeding that river gets low, they are in trouble. They plan to grow as fast as possible....

So, think about the big picture too! Where does your water come from and where does your waste go?

 

[foen]

Thank you guys for yours reply ,
I guessed it was complicated topic so I'm no a fanatic but I'd like have the best deal to save water ( from my home's well as like Ned ) , environment friendly chemicals at least as my kitchen soap box . So when someone will ask me why I use traditional film and development instead digital I'll can really reply in topic with the right answer.

Does that make a sense?

 

[koraks]

Yes, it makes sense and I really see where you're coming from. It's always a compromise if you look at human activities from a viewpoint of sustainability; I think it's key to make a few good decisions at crucial points without giving up too much of what makes life good.

 

[mshchem]

Thank you guys for yours reply ,
I guessed it was complicated topic so I'm no a fanatic but I'd like have the best deal to save water ( from my home's well as like Ned ) , environment friendly chemicals at least as my kitchen soap box . So when someone will ask me why I use traditional film and development instead digital I'll can really reply in topic with the right answer.

Does that make a sense?

Selenium toner is clean working. You use it over and over, and can replenish the solution.

 

[removed account4]

Hi Henry
Nothing wrong with being "extreme" if you want to be ... as long as you are having fun.
John

 

[foen]

I'd like only to be consistent with a low impact for the environment (as like I can do). Nothing special, nothing extreme.

 

[koraks]

I think from a practical & pragmatic viewpoint, it would make sense then to look at developers like xtol (optionally replenished) and "eco" print developers, and be sure to dispose of used fixer in a responsible way. Concerning fixer, you could consider letting most of the silver precipitate using the tin foil/steel wool trick, allowing you to separate out the silver-rich sludge from a much less harmful liquid fraction. Selenium toner can indeed be replenished, although I have had batches of selenium toner go bad on me and become ineffective. Can't hurt to try though.

 

[Skeeterfx20]

This is not rocket science most people just plain over think things for reasons I don't understand.
1.) Research the chemical.
2.) Find out who takes hazardous chemicals and pay for disposal.
3.) Research if it can be treated by your sewage system, if so you treat it as waste water.
4.) Research if there are simple ways such as evaporation and then just dispose solids.
5.) Don't toss it in the yard or driveway or use to kill weeds. Don't drink it, don't spill near your well or put into a septic system.
6.) Thus you really have your only answer if you are that concerned. Call a hazard waste company and pay the bill, cost of doing business. Problem solved without any debate or large study.

 

[KenS]

How many are not interested in recovering the silver from their used fixer?
I now 'save' my used fixer in a glass carboy (rather then pouring down the drain). I add 'left over'.. but not 'dead' developer
and shake....then... after some time of 'repeating' when I have about 6 (or so) inches of black 'sludge' at the bottom of the carboy, I syphon off as much of the liquid as possible (leaving room for more 'used' fixer) to which is added more used (but not 'dead' fixer) and again more used but not dead developer.
When I have 'about 6 to 8 inches of 'sludge, I add clean water, shake well and filter the contents... repeat the wash and eventually 'retrieve' the sludge by filtration... You now have one of the purest forms of silver (as a 'dust) when dried the washed and dried
the 'black silver' powder is taken to a 'friendly' jewellery repair shop who then 'melt' it down to 'retrieve' the metallic 'silver.

The procedure can be a bit of extra darkroom time.. and 'work' ... but it sure saves it going to 'waste' into either the local sewer system.. or YOUR OWN septic tank

Ken

 

[Skeeterfx20]

Nothing wrong with recycling the silver. I don't do it, probably more of a fact I cant be bothered with the extra work. When I was a kid however I use to help a guy who did this on a large scale. He would service hospitals and clinics. We would pick of barrels of chemicals and also old xrays. I don't know what he did with it as I was only hired muscle to load the stuff into his truck. I think he would give us about $50 a day. That was 40 years ago.

 

[radiant]

Is there some common film/darkroom chemicals that shouldn't be mixed together? For example film developers, fixers, bleach, toners?

I'm collecting all waste waters (not washing waters) to used windshield cleaning fluid canisters which contain some parts of the cleaning fluid. That in general consist of Butanone, Ethanol, Ethylene glycol - do these chemicals react with film/darkroom general?

Just a bit worried when pouring all into same jug The empty windhsield canisters are pretty common in Finnish gas stations beause of the weather conditions..