Best Portable Medium format camera for a kid

SimonSutcliffe · Jun 20, 2011

Joe, I would probably bring the camera if I was on vacation I would have it in my knapsack then would probably take it out for say half an hour. Then put it back. For landscapes I would hike a kilometer or two with it in my bag then use it once I reach my destanation or see a photo I wanted to have. Im fine with carrying things in my knapsack as I am an assistant to a pro architectural photographer who makes me carry the Fuji GX68something with a few lenses and a 4x5(I feel like a pack mule) so as long as it is in my backpack it is okay but I still would need to be portable becuase when I travled to cambodia and china last year It would be giving away gear if you checked it.so it needs to be portable enough to bring with me in the bottom of a knapsack.

benjiboy · Jun 20, 2011

Portable M/F camera for a kid- sorry I don't do trades

michaelbsc · Jun 20, 2011

SimonSutcliffe said:
I think that I will go for the mamiya with some body and then get a 55 80 250 which will cover me. What body does everyone recommend with the mamiya system and what 120 B/W eaisly developable film should I use?

I think if you're just getting into film this is going to be an extra layer of confusion.

If you have good prices, then fine. But stick one lens on it, and learn it first.

My father in law sold mens clothing for a living. He always told me don't give somebody too many choices. It muddies their thinking. It's a human thing, not a comment directed at you personally.

removed account4 · Jun 20, 2011

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pbromaghin · Jun 20, 2011

SimonSutcliffe said:
Yes I do mean the TLR system for mamiya. Do you think the RZ67 would be as portable as the C2 or C330?

After 3 months with my C, I love it dearly, for it has shown me so many new kinds of errors I can make.

They both weigh about the same, but with the C you don't have that heavy mirror slapping around so you get an extra couple of stops of exposure to play with. Handheld, I use a hippie strap, a handle attachment and a cable release. As somebody else told you, keep that monster tripod - I'm still using my 35mm tripod and it is barely adequate.

I'm not really qualified to advise you on film, but the Kodak T-max, Ilford Delta, Fuji Velvia 100 and Kodak Ektar that I've put through it all have a fine grain that really uses the razor-sharp lenses to advantage.

If you plan to shoot B&W, note that the 250 lens takes 48mm filters and the others all take 46mm. They may take some effort to find. It might be easier to get 48mm's and an adapter down to 46mm for the other lenses.

MattKing · Jun 20, 2011

Further to the post above, assuming you are talking about the later, black lenses:

1) the 65mm lens takes 48mm filters;
2) the 180mm and 250mm lenses take 49mm filters; and
3) the relatively rare and certainly less desirable 80mm f/3.7 lens takes 40.5 mm filters.

When these cameras were current, I had no problem finding 46mm filters in stores. More recently, I've had success finding 46mm filters on the internet.

Whiteymorange · Jun 20, 2011

Hi SimonSutcliffe
I'd go with a folder to start- an Ikonta, a Bessa or ...there are lots of choices and sizes- as long as you're comfortable guess-timating distances and shooting "sunny 16" rules- or want to carry a light meter. The quality of the lenses is quite high in general and with practice, you should be able to match what you could do with the other options you mention. A Super-Ikonta, with rangefinder, cuts that learning curve down a lot, but with a higher price tag. The choices here are amazingly cheap and you can throw one in a backpack, pull it out and start shooting. Both Bronica set-ups are very nice, but maybe a bit delicate for the backpack you just drop on the ground when you start hanging out with your friends; the Graflex is large, heavy and 4x5 isn't medium format. In order to shoot roll film you'll be using a roll back and lose the ability to see through the ground glass to focus- not really a problem but not quick and easy for hand-held work. Sheet film is another consideration- in the darkroom as well as on the street. The C330 is great- I have one and use it regularly, but it is one heavy beast. It is my experience that the best camera is the one you have with you. A folder can easily fit in a jacket pocket and be out and ready in a few seconds- meaning you'll be more likely to carry it.

Free advice- and worth every penny! Have fun, whatever you choose.

Dshambli · Jun 20, 2011

I just picked up an Agfa Isolette for $17.70 (including shipping). I had to unglue the focusing ring (pretty standard on these) but now it's working better than it probably ever has before. While I really like my Rolleicord, this compact folder is a lot easier to carry around. Mine doesn't have a rangefinder though, so I've been using small apertures and avoiding closeups.

Joe O'Brien · Jun 21, 2011

If you plan on hiking a couple kilometers and going on vacations to far-flung places the I'd really say that you should get a TLR or a folder. If you got an SLR system with lenses, backs, and viewfinders then throwing all that into your standard knapsack could result in damage to some/all of the components. If you are thinking of getting a camera bag and traveling with that I'd say to watch out as well, being young and carrying around a camera bag, from which you pull expensive looking gear could make you a prime target for thieves. I had a professor who nearly got mugged for his camera gear in Barcelona earlier this spring. With a TLR or a folder theft is LESS of an issue, but always be careful.

Bill Burk · Jun 21, 2011

Simon,

Good luck in your decision-making. Make reliability your primary requirement. This is a big purchase for you and if it breaks within a year you can't easily replace it. If you start a system with interchangeable lenses, it's OK to leave out the telephoto for now and "plan" to buy it later. Medium formats have some "headroom" so if you get the shot on film you can probably enlarge it in cases where you would normally have reached for the telephoto.

pbromaghin · Jun 21, 2011

MattKing said:
Further to the post above, assuming you are talking about the later, black lenses:

1) the 65mm lens takes 48mm filters;
2) the 180mm and 250mm lenses take 49mm filters; and
3) the relatively rare and certainly less desirable 80mm f/3.7 lens takes 40.5 mm filters.

When these cameras were current, I had no problem finding 46mm filters in stores. More recently, I've had success finding 46mm filters on the internet.

Oops, I meant the 180, not the 250 (which I don't have). My black 180 does not accept a 49mm filter. When I first got it and read the manual I was all happy that it would take the same 49mm filters as my Minolta 50mm lens, but apparently the manual lied.

My black 80 and 135 and chrome 105 all take 46mm.

mark · Jun 21, 2011

As someone who works with 14 year olds on a daily basis I know how obsessive they can be and how fast they drop that obsession when another comes along. Get these cameras in hand. I missed where you lived in Canada so, if in or close to a metropolitan area find a used camera store and go fondle some cameras. Tell the guy/gal behind the counter that you want to see cameras before you buy and compare to make a good decision. Then go home and think. What felt good in your hands? Is this a passing fancy?

You say you are an assistant to a photog, and know photogs, these are the folks you should be talking to. Ask to see their cameras. If they say 6x7 see if any of them have one. Those are big beasts.

That crazy heavy tripod will be your best friend because you WILL get fatigued hand holding a MF camera and your pictures will be plenty fuzzy. As you move up in camera size the tripod needs to go up as well. A solid steady platform is essential.

After you get these things in your hand and know what feels good to you then people here will be able to guide you to the next steps. As you have seen there are plenty of opinions and none of them are wrong, and apply very well to the situation, assuming the one posting is in the market.

Good luck.

MattKing · Jun 21, 2011

pbromaghin said:
Oops, I meant the 180, not the 250 (which I don't have). My black 180 does not accept a 49mm filter. When I first got it and read the manual I was all happy that it would take the same 49mm filters as my Minolta 50mm lens, but apparently the manual lied.

My black 80 and 135 and chrome 105 all take 46mm.

With your 180mm lens, do you have the chrome "keeper" ring?

From Graham Patterson's Mamiya TLR site:

"It seems that all lenses with 49mm filter threads were originally supplied with chrome 'keeper' rings to stiffen and protect the thin alloy mountings. Not surprisingly these are often absent now. These have concentric ribs inside that are often mistaken for a (strange) filter thread. Some lenses, such as the early 80mm, have a chrome cosmetic ring around the outside of the filter thread, which should not be mistaken for a keeper ring."

In case you don't have it, here is a link to Graham's excellent site:

http://www.gapatterson.com/grahamp

Thingy · Jun 21, 2011

You could consider a secondhand Mamiya 645 Pro TL - lightweight for a MF camera and modular. You can pick up lenses and other parts from it at reasonable prices.

More info here: http://www.mamiya.co.uk/products.php?id=13&body=true

PS: Mark, should you really be encouraging 14 year olds to 'fondle' cameras?

Now fondling Ebony cameras, that's truly sensual....

mark · Jun 21, 2011

I teach middle school. I think fondling a camera is a very safe and wise alternative.

pbromaghin · Jun 21, 2011

MattKing said:
With your 180mm lens, do you have the chrome "keeper" ring?

From Graham Patterson's Mamiya TLR site:

"It seems that all lenses with 49mm filter threads were originally supplied with chrome 'keeper' rings to stiffen and protect the thin alloy mountings. Not surprisingly these are often absent now. These have concentric ribs inside that are often mistaken for a (strange) filter thread. Some lenses, such as the early 80mm, have a chrome cosmetic ring around the outside of the filter thread, which should not be mistaken for a keeper ring."

In case you don't have it, here is a link to Graham's excellent site:

http://www.gapatterson.com/grahamp

Thank you for the link! There really is a lot of info there.

I don't have the lenses in front of me now, but I don't recall any extra chrome on any of the black lenses. I'll check tonight. But these shouldn't affect the filter size would they?

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jun 21, 2011

Simon, I don't know if someone had mentioned it elsewhere in the thread and I missed it, but a good option could be a Yashica TLR. They're much lighter than the Mamiya TLR, and though they may not be as neat as Rolleiflexes, they are tiny, very light, and will stay in your backpack. I've got a Yashica D for free as a hands me down that I could pass along to a fellow Canadian.

At least it would get you started, and you can spend the money on film.

mark · Jun 21, 2011

Take the offer!!!!!!!! I love this community. Always willing to help out. I will ignore the twisted violent underbelly of you Canadians (as seen in Vancouver) after this.

Dan Daniel · Jun 21, 2011

Michel, with all due respect and admiration for your offer, maybe you missed that Simon, the OP, has traveled throughout Asia, works for professional photographers as an assistant, and has parents well-connected to other photographers. In other words, I think he is in a position to afford to pay for a camera. Might I suggest that you find a home for your D where it will be truly something that wouldn't happen without your generosity?

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Simon finds the Yashica-D beneath him.

removed account4 · Jun 21, 2011

hi daniel,

there was another person in this thread who offered to give a camera to simon as well,
( but pay the shipping ) ... the folks at this forum are some of the most generous people
i have encountered ... bend over backwards to help someone out, friendly and helpful too ...

i wouldn't be surprised if the OP finds a yashica beneath him too .. it's funny, old pros
and seasoned photographers tend to gravitate back to workhorse cameras like graflexes, koni omegas,
yashicas &C ... new folks gravitate towards other things

tkamiya · Jun 21, 2011

Then, again, when I was 14, I wanted it all.... all the attributes of something that will make whatever it was that I wanted the greatest device ever. Such as being young. (gee... that was SO long ago!)

Reality is SO over rated!

2F/2F · Jun 21, 2011

Hey, when I was 14, all I wanted was something with a zoom lens that took 35mm film! Never got it until I was older and got it for myself. Thrift store Instamatic 126's and 110 cameras were what I shot. You want square format? I got yer square format right here, buddy! And one more side left on my flash cube to boot!

tkamiya · Jun 21, 2011

You, too? My first camera was an Instamatic 126 also. Boy did I have fun with that stuff. But that didn't stop me from dreaming about all the cameras I read about in magazines and make a list of my must-have kit that will allow me to take great picture every time in any circumstances. THAT was fun and disappointing at the same time.

MattKing · Jun 21, 2011

pbromaghin said:
Thank you for the link! There really is a lot of info there.

I don't have the lenses in front of me now, but I don't recall any extra chrome on any of the black lenses. I'll check tonight. But these shouldn't affect the filter size would they?

As I understand it, the keeper ring is designed to be installed when no filter is mounted and removed when you want to mount a filter. The problem is that many people think that the keeper ring has threads that filters may be screwed into, but they don't.

There are a number of Mamiya TLR owners who post to APUG (including Graham Patterson). Hopefully one of the other owners of 180mm and 250mm lenses can chime in.

k_jupiter · Jun 21, 2011

When I was 14 I wanted to know where the next oz was coming from or the next 6 of beer.

None the less, if Simon is so well connected why is he asking us?

Personally, he has gotten some questionable advice from his real life friends, a rb67 is a terrible idea for a 14 YO. Too damn heavy, unreliable in inexperienced hands. I would advise against a c330 for the same reasons. Now a nice C220 with a 65mm lens and perhaps a 105 is a great starting point. A M645 is a good starter camera with built in metering. Both have tons of cheap lens and are easy to use. The Yashicamat is a nice camera for a beginner MF person, it will tell you if you like the 6x6 backwards composing attributes to the TLR format, small enough to carry anywhere, and if Simon is too darned good to carry a Yashica, he needs to get a reality grip. Remember Atget shot with equipment that would make most of us blanch yet his work is superior to most everything any of us do. 14YOs need to know that the equipment doesn't make the photographer, the photographer does. He needs to be encouraged to use simple equipment to achieve his view.

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