Best Portable Medium format camera for a kid

[olleorama]

I have a japanese tlr I don't use. You can have it for $20 plus shipping. PM me if interested. Everything functional and clean optics, even the self timer works.

 

[tkamiya]

I'd start with one body and one lens, then slowly add lenses as your needs grow. Personally, I'd stay away from UG class lenses. You might get lucky but then again, you may not. Medium format cameras are plentiful. You should be able to get EX grade or better for everything at your price if you are patient.

I hope you are aware, with medium format cameras, "metering" isn't necessary built-in. That is shutter speed and aperture combination isn't calculated/measured by the camera. You'll need to learn to guess accurately or measure it yourself - that is unless you get metering prisms.

Crazy heavy tripods are actually a good thing. I'd keep that.

 

[tkamiya]

there is a healthy camera trading community here
john

Hey, John....

I'm not sure if I'd call this a "healthy" bunch.... Most of us are heavily afflicted with G.A.S. Some of us are on first name basis with UPS/USPS delivery agents. Sometimes cameras magically show up at our door steps without us doing anything.

 

[SimonSutcliffe]

apperntly UG is still very good at KEH

 

[BrianL]

A basic ETRS system with 120 back, wl finder, body, 75mm standard lens and caps, etc. can be had for about $200 in the Toronto area. I see a number of them on CL from time to time. Add a hand held meter and you are up and running. The rest of the system is fluff and will not yield better results or make you a better photographer but, helps in making the photograph. Start with the standard lens and one that covers what you normally shoot, either wide angle or tele and learn the 2 lenses.

I have the 50 and 40mm lenses with my system and of not think I've used the 50 in decades but do keep the 40 on it most of the time. I'm not into the "normal" focal length in any format so the 75 that is quite good also gather dust and I tend to use the 105 macro as a 2nd lens. The 250mm only gets used on a tripod. The key to the system is to decide what you actually need and what s a nice to have accessory. When I bought mine back in the old days, I pretty much emptied the bin and today realize that I do not use 90% of what I bought. 3 extension tubes that I've used maybe a half dozen times, a lens doubler maybe the same amount, the motor drive that makes the camera a true elephant weight and other items. I'm not sorry I bought the stuff. Lenses 40, 50 75, 105, 250 and the doubler makes 80, 10, 210, 500. So, I cover 40, 50, 75, 80, 100, 150, 210, 250, 500. The doubler does not degrade the results significantly at least to 8x10. There is also a fisheye and several zoom plus a shift lens and a 500mm so as for lenses, the sky is the limit.

Admittedly, I do not have to choose between 6x4.5, 6x6 or 35mm as the ETRS has a 35mm back so the system also is my 35mm system and I have a 6x6 camera. The 6x6 is a Rolleiflex and is lighter to carry than the Bronica. But, it is not as versitile. It does have a large number of accessories but at a cost. The TLR you mention, is more versitile in that it has the ability to substitute lenses and is a bellows based camera menaing it can focus closer. But it is not light. I've thought about getting the C330 a number of times but each time I try 1 out, it feels too unwieldy and out of balance with the 135mm lens. The Rollei feels better. You may want to look for a Yashica Mat-124G of its earlier stable mates that are the most successful Rolleiflex clones down to using the same lens accessory flange for things like lens hoods, filters, and the Rollei can use the Yashica accessory telephoto and wide angle lens sets. The Yashica lenses are very good. I used one until I got my Rolleiflex and still miss it.

 

[R gould]

As a starter in MF I would go for a tlr, perhaps a rolleiflex or cord, the fixed lens will concentrate your mind wonderfully, or a German or English folder, perhaps a Zeiss Ikon or a Voightlander Perkeo, or how about one of the Ensign's you can get the selfix range in 644, 6x6 or 69/66, great results from all of them and capable of enlarging to 16x20 easily, I speak from expereince with all of them as I love these old cameras and use them all, and they all have the ''Wow,cool'' factor,
Richard

 

[SimonSutcliffe]

I would rather not have the fixed lens because I will be traveling quite a bit and the fixed lenses wont be very useful and If its not the right focal length I like.

 

[2F/2F]

I'd go for option 2, myself. It is a great and versatile camera system. "The poor man's Hasselblad."

 

[jp498]

I'd go for a TLR or option#2. Nothing wrong with the other stuff.

Already got the speed graphic, and it's very portable, but the film take up lots of space and the airport people don't always believe you that film doesn't have to come on a roll.

Don't knock TLRs like you did in post 32 till you've used one for a while (a month and 12 rolls or more). I have yashica and rollei TLRs and they are my most productive cameras as far as top notch photos, even with their limitations. If you need zoom, accompany them with a P&S camera or DSLR. People love TLRs wherever you go and you'll be received well. I received my yashica TLR for free and had $150 work on it to make it like new. The Rollei is a 1950's automat which cost me $220 in proper working order. You pay more if you need it right away, or you can sit and poach camera opportunities on your local craigslist.

A tiltall tripod is a good tripod choice if you're looking to upgrade that. A small simple inexpensive meter is handy too.

 

[herb]

Camera choice

Simon, you will have to try something and see how you like it.
That said, go cheap and learn how. The gear is not the problem to good pictures, the nut behind the camera is.
I have owned so many cameras I won't admit how many, and I find the subject is what makes me decide which format/camera I like.
It is just like getting pregnant, you must get exposed-get something cheap and try making pictures. Forget the fancy gear. When you have shot a dozen rolls, you will know something.

 

[removed account4]

just get 1 camera and lens ... the TLR you were offered sounds perfect.
too many accessories and lenses are just a distraction ...

apperntly UG is still very good at KEH

nope ... " bargain " ( BGN ) is still very good
UG is just as it says ... UGLY

and from what i remember keh rates on cosmetics, not function ...

from their website:

"Bargain" 70-79% of original condition. Shows more than average wear.
May have dents, dings and/or brassing and finish loss.
Glass may have marks and/or blemishes that should not affect picture quality*.

"Ugly" Very rough looking. Multiple impressions in metal, excessive finish loss and brassing.
Glass will have marks, fungus and/or haze which will affect picture quality.

 

[Rick A]

For years American high schools put 6x6 TLR's in the hands of students on yearbook staff with a minimum of instruction and no light meters. Most of these were likely Yashicas, and miraculously the photos came out very nicely. I still prefer TLR's to anything, a pair of Mamiyas(220f and 330s) with extra lenses, and a Yashicamat LM also Yashica D, with auxillary wide+tele lenses. The Yashicas are light weight and quiet, making them excellent street shooters.

 

[aroth87]

Yep, I'd say go for a TLR too. I love my wife's Yashica Mat, when I can sneak it away from her at least. While I'll probably get a 645 of some variety in the near-ish future, I'm more than satisfied with the TLR. I like to think of it as being focused, not limited, by one focal length . Although if you only ever shoot wide or long I can see how being stuck with an 80mm lens could be frustrating. OTOH, my wife just brought back some pretty nice landscape photos from Colorado that she took with it. You will make all kinds of friends with a TLR too, everyone had a parent or relative that had one and will want to tell you so.

Adam

 

[SimonSutcliffe]

I think that I will go for the mamiya with some body and then get a 55 80 250 which will cover me. What body does everyone recommend with the mamiya system and what 120 B/W eaisly developable film should I use?

 

[Dan Daniel]

I'll say it again- a Bronica ETRSi or other 6x4.5. With a speed grip, prism finder. Well, buy with the waist level and add a prism since the WLF seems to be overpriced on its own. Some careful waiting and you can get three lenses. A couple of backs. This will break apart and go into a knapsack easily. It will tell you what you need to know, you'll be able to try different setups without a huge cost, and you'll be in a good position for the next format change.

Yep, the next one. It will happen.

The most important thing, though, is to get a decent medium format camera of some sort and see how it works out for you. None of us can tell you what will work *for you.* Only experience will tell you that. My first MF camera was a Rolleicord, and I am slowly sinking back to a minimal collection of a DSLR and a Rolleiflex, with a Minolta Autocord. But I think an SLR offers the most options, and Bronica ETRSi the most bang for the buck, but the important thing is to start working with medium format and see where it takes you.

EDIT: So you just posted about a Mamiya. do you mean the twin lens system?

Use Tri-X and D-76 1:1 for the first few rolls. Almost fool-proof results, a somewhat classic look.

 

[rdtaylor_sea]

FWIW - I recently picked up a Rolleiflex 3.5e with a Xenotar from KEH that was rated "UG". Paid $199. From a cosmetic standpoint the rating was correct in that the leather was pretty darn ugly. The optics, however, are almost pristine - after a gentle cleaning there are only a few small dots on the surface of the taking lens that can only be seen under bright lights. No haze, no scratches, no separation and no effect upon the pictures that it takes.

I pulled off the old leather and ran a couple of rolls of Portra 400 through it. The photos are absolutely stunning - I love KEH's cosmetic-based rating system.

Pick up a simple TLR. It makes you think about taking photographs rather than which lenses and accessories to play with.

 

[SimonSutcliffe]

Yes I do mean the TLR system for mamiya. Do you think the RZ67 would be as portable as the C2 or C330?

 

[tkamiya]

I still have not heard what type of subject OP likes to shoot and in what type of environment. OP's stated requirement is shifting as well. If we are talking generically, what's the best MF camera? then just about anything available and fitting OP's budget will do.

I have a feeling that OP wants MF because he wants a MF camera. There's nothing wrong with that. But then, recommending "the best one" is going to be difficult to impossible. Any camera will be great for one and not so for something else - while it can be made to do just about anything with some ingenuity. There's no such thing as "the" best camera that will do anything and everything equally well.

At this point, it really comes down to what YOU feel like trying. Make it somewhat reasonable and it'll be a good learning experience if nothing else. My suggestion will be a some type of TLR or a 645 camera. Plentiful, good at a lot of things, and easy to sell if not to liking.

 

[tkamiya]

what 120 B/W eaisly developable film should I use?

Kodak Tri-X 400 and D-76 is very classic. Good for a lot of things with no particular faults or quirks.

 

[SimonSutcliffe]

I have been talking to a few of my parents pro photographer(one shoot for NT GEO) friends they recomend shooting in 6x7 for best cropping/formating/look. So now my criteria is 6x7 that is portable that is not mamiya 7(TOO EXPENSIVE ) Would the GS-1 be any good vs RB67? I love to shoot landscapes and cityscapes and closeups sometimes. I do alot of telephoto work for the compressed effect. Textures, I like to try new things

 

[Bob-D659]

Just remember that the telephoto effect on 35mm is halved on a 6x7 format as the neg is approx 4x the area of a 35mm. Normal lens goes from a 50 to a 90, so a 200 on a 35mm is something around 400 on a 6x7. The weight goes up as well.

Yes the larger neg is nice, but the aspect ratio of 6x7 neg is close to the 645 neg.

 

[MattKing]

Simon:

You need to see some of these cameras "in the flesh" to determine whether they would meet your needs.

A 6x7 camera with a moderately long telephoto is a very large unit.

Even the Mamiya TLR with a 250mm is quite large (and moderately awkward to use).

And the RB67 or RZ67 is quite a bit larger.

 

[Joe O'Brien]

Simon, I think it would help all of us be able to help you if you let us know what you plan on shooting, and the distance you would be traveling with the camera. If you will be going out in the field then how far will you need to go on foot, and over what terrain?

 

[2F/2F]

My guess is that the only one of those four that will seem significantly different from the size of a digital SLR kit with comparable-quality fixed-length lenses is the Graflex. And even then, it really isn't bigger once you consider that it folds up into a nice rectangular package, and additional lenses are smaller than the ones for your digital camera. (This is especially so if you get the slower-model lenses instead of f/5.6 or faster models). But you also need to add things to your bag like film holders and such, and you would do well to get a heftier tripod than the one you probably use for your digital.

Digital SLRs are convenient in many ways, but they are remarkably bulky in relation to the quality they can produce. Medium format and large format cameras that are not too much larger can produce image quality that will put any small format digital camera to shame in pretty much any situation except when using high ISO speeds.

What I am trying to say is that with any of these choices, you will better your image-quality-to-camera-bulk ratio by a good deal, and that most of them are not a worry when it comes to bulk and weight. They are pretty compact cameras, considering what they can do.

 

[Ulrich Drolshagen]

I'd like to provide some information you can't have if you didn't try it yourself. There is a difference between 135 and larger formats especially with the square of the 6x6. There is a miraculously diminishing need for other than "normal" focal lengths. I do not want to say that there is no need. But you will not change the focal lengths that often as with 135. This is especially true with wide angle on the square format.
MF-lenses are rather bulky and tend to get left behind at home. A full kit of lenses make a camera system very heavy, in fact so heavy that the differences in weight between the camera bodies of different brands to my opinion does not matter much.
The depth of field preview is of limited use on a MF camera, as the finder gets rather dim on smaller apertures than f8. So a SLR is of limited use if you use only one lens anyway.
As a result my suggestion is to start with a TLR or a folder. As decent folders with coupled rangefinder can be difficult to find, I'd try it with a TLR. But I am biased on that.

Ulrich