Best Portable Medium format camera for a kid

SimonSutcliffe · Jun 18, 2011

Hi Im 14 and my parents told me I could have a darkroom and I figured I would love to have a medium format camera for my birthday. I travel quite a bit and take my current DSLR everywhere. I was thinking of these options

Right Now I am thinking of four options
Option 1. Bronica ETRSI With 120 back, 75, 50 ,150 lens, some prism or waist level., 250$
Option 2. Bronica SQAI with 120 back 80 mm lens and something else 300$
Option 3. Graflex 4x5 press camera no focal plane shutter, compactable, rangefinder. unknown.$
Option 4. Mamiya C330 with 80, 135. 450$
I am leaning towards 1 or 3
What do you think of these options?
What do you think the ultimate portability while customization option while being handholdable?
I would love to print large.

Dan Daniel · Jun 19, 2011

You can get an ETRSi setup like that for $250? Good deal. The Mamiya C330 is a nice studio setup, but pretty big for travel. The Graflex will (most likely) require a 4x5 enlarger. if you do roll film through it, then I hope you like telephoto. traveling with 4x5 sheet film holders opens up a range of concerns, all solvable but needing attention. The SQ-Ai is nice but a touch heavy.

I think that for your age, the Bronica ETRSi is the best bet. It allows for expansion and options as time goes on. It will tell you a lot about medium format itself. You'll see if you really want a prism or waist level finder, different backs, etc. And even with the speed grip (get one!!), it will go into luggage, a backpack, etc., breaking into pieces and being stuffed here and there if need be. The leaf shutter (on the others, also) will also give you lots of freedom if you work with strobes and such. After a year or two or three, you'll know where to go next- Hasselblad? Rolleifex? 4x5?

You might also look into Pentax 645 in case its digital MF camera looks attractive down the road. I'm not certain how that model is doing. Maybe I'll get drummed off this board, but digital is where most of the future will be happening.

tkamiya · Jun 19, 2011

Welcome to APUG!

If you want portability, it's Range Finder cameras.
If you want customizability (is that even a word?), it's modular SLR type like Mamiya M645 or Bronica.

I'm partial to M645 series because I have one. While it's not light or small, it's manageable. It's handholdable especially if you add a motorized winder. Think of it as an over-sized 35mm camera. If you want light, take off the winder. Parts are plentiful and reasonably cheap. Takes great photographs. Sorry, I don't know Bronicas.

You are sort of all over the place though. What do you like to shoot? Do you want a roll film camera? Do you want square or 645?

Printing large? How large? Have you thought about all the trays you'd need for say 16x20 size and the space it'll take?? Let's define some parameters on what you want first. Then you will be able to narrow down your choices a bit.

SimonSutcliffe · Jun 19, 2011

Bronica

Im not sure how big I want to print but 16x20 sounds wonderful. I guess 645 format is the best for portability so what would other 645 options be?

tkamiya · Jun 19, 2011

645 is a smallest medium format size.

Fuji makes (made) a series of cameras that are basically over-sized pocket cameras. Take a look at Fuji 645 series.... like 645Zi You get 645 sized film, professional grade lens, and ultra-portable. I don't have any personal experience with this camera but if I wanted portability as my number 1 priority, then I'll be looking at these. These do not offer any customizing option. You get what you get and that's it. Hand holdable? Absolutely.

By the way, doing 16x20 will take huge amount of space and paper that size takes some experience to handle. 11x14 may be a better intermediate goal. It'll take you a while honing your skills at more common 8x10 though.

Fun stuff!

spacer · Jun 19, 2011

My niece says get a Holga.

Not exactly my cup o' tea, though.

Brian Legge · Jun 19, 2011

Any of the MF SLRs are going to be relatively bulky and heavy. You might want to consider looking at a TLR or folder as well. Not as flexible but they can be better 'go anywhere' cameras.

SimonSutcliffe · Jun 19, 2011

I would probably have the camera in a knapsack so being tiny isnt super important its is very helpful though.

spacer · Jun 19, 2011

Ah, a folding Ikonta would up the "cool" factor by quite a lot, and if a friend's images are any clue, you can do quite well with a good one.
...and I was able to easily slip the folded camera in my hip pocket, though I wouldn't sit down with it in there.

Bob-D659 · Jun 19, 2011

You can process 16x20 prints in a single tray, you just dump the chems back into a large measuring cups, takes way less room that having four of them lined up. Also you can use a print drum for 16x20 with a motorized base, Beseler made both, not too expensive used. Do your test strips in 8x10 trays, then put the large print in the drum and process.

Pentax 645 cameras are nice, I bought one last year. Bodies are not too bad in price, but lenses have almost doubled in price since the 645D came out.
Here for current retail used prices. Dead Link Removed

Here is a quickie and dirty scan of an 8x10 print P645, 45mm lens and a red filter Delta 400

SimonSutcliffe · Jun 19, 2011

What is the diference between he ETR and the ETRSI becuase this is what I was thinking of keh.com/ShopForGear/shopping-cart.aspx?SKu=ET130090302700 which would be pretty good selection of lenses and other things.

Jeff Kubach · Jun 19, 2011

My vote is for a TLR also!

Jeff

Joe O'Brien · Jun 19, 2011

The main difference between the ETR and ETRSI is that the ETRSI can meter and compensate for a flash without the use of any external meter. This is great if you plan on doing a lot of studio work with strobes, or plan on bringing strobes on location. If not however, the ETR might be a more effective body for you. I shoot with a Bronnica SQ-A and I really love it. When I was looking to buy my Bronnie I struggled with the decision of SQ-A or SQ-AI (essentially the same decision as you in 6x6). I've had my SQ-A for a bit over two years now and I've yet to find a situation it can't handle.

If you can be persuaded I'd recommend going the 6x6 route. It is more difficult at first to learn to compose in a square, but I've found that after a while everything just seems to fall into place, and my personal tastes and style lie within a square composition. If you are okay going the 6x6 route or if you're hesitant then maybe try an inexpensive TLR an old Rolleicord would be nice.

Whatever system you go with I'd suggest trying to work with as few variables as possible, try using only one film (if you need to cover a lot of different situations then I believe tri-x is rather easy to manipulate) and one developer so you can nail down your technique. I've spent the last couple years jumping from film to film and switching developers because of what my school had available. It's actually just now that I'm embarking on what will be a long journey with only my SQ-A, 80mm PS, Pan F+, spotmeter, and Perceptol. If you have any other questions about MF just let me know and I will do my best to help you out or point you to someone who can.

Most importantly get a camera and get shooting!

-Joe

Alastair_I · Jun 19, 2011

I'll suggest a MF folder from the 1950's, if only because I love them myself. The ultimate in MF portability, and although a fixed lens limits customisation opportunities the cheap price tag would allow you to experiment with a couple of diferent models. Easily available, they offer 6x6 or 6x9 and sometimes both in the same camera. Basic models are zone-focus, but rangefinders are also available. Your budget would stretch to include something like the Ensign Selfix 820 Autorange.

Dr.Pain-MD · Jun 19, 2011

Out of the ones that you listed, the ETRS is probably the most portable and the deal seems to be the best. I am a fan of the 6x6 format as well and I would suggest that you think about that as well. The SQ-Ai is a great camera as well and should be almost as easy to carry around as the ETRS. I too am a huge fan of TLRs like some previous posters, so I would also encourage you to look into that option.

Ottrdaemmerung · Jun 19, 2011

If lightness and portability are your major concerns, then like someone earlier in this thread, I have to recommend a 645 system. You get a few more shots on a roll (16 vs. 12), and some of the later models, like the Mamiya 645 Pro, have plastic bodies instead of metal -- greatly reducing weight. They take standard Mamiya-Sekor C lenses, which you can get rather inexpensively off KEH: a few months ago I got a 150mm f/3.5 for $55 in EX condition.

Then again, you need to decide first whether you want to shoot a rectangular aspect ratio (like 645, which is like oversized 35mm), or square 6x6. TLRs are great, compact, and an attention-getter, but not quite as versatile in the long run as a system like the the ETRSi.

Artisan Stomoxys · Jun 19, 2011

What do you call portable. Some of the Fuji GW645, 670 and 690 series are brilliantly portable and even to be had spanking new. They are light, some of them are foldable, some of them have interchangeble lenses, some even cary zoom and autofocus lenses. All are relatively light, some are really build like tanks (the GW690 series) and will last a lifetime. But hey I carry a GX680 system up a hill with ease. But hey, I'm build like a planet so a bit of extra weight, that's not taken into account.

Greetings, Ed

mcgrattan · Jun 19, 2011

I'd definitely not go with the Graflex. It's nowhere near as convenient as the others. I'd also not go with a folder as my first MF camera. I have one [Super Ikonta A] and it's compact, cool-looking, and takes good pictures [but only with a lens hood as it flares badly] but I think medium format SLRs or a good TLR are more practical in many ways and less prone to problems.

My own first choice would be a Rolleiflex, but if I had to have interchangeable lenses, either the ETRS or the SQ, depending whether you like square format or not. Personally, I do, but not everyone does. For me the Rollei is basically the perfect camera. I expect I could live with just that and nothing else, so if you do get the chance to try a TLR, I'd recommend it. TLRs are surprisingly compact -- it's a single brick-like shape, with no need for extra lenses, and no protruding elements. I'd guess my Rollei takes up less space in a camera bag than many of my 35mm cameras. That said, my place of work uses Mamiya 645 bodies, and some Bronicas and both have proved reliable work horses over time.

Uncle Bill · Jun 19, 2011

My recommendations: a Rolleicord IV or a Mamiya C220 with the Sekor 65 and 105 lenses (the 80 f2.8 is nothing to write home about).

mgb74 · Jun 19, 2011

Notice the range of opinions? None of these folks are wrong, but none are necessarily right for you.

Most of us have more than 1 type of camera in any format because there is no "one size fits all". Besides, your interest and style will change over time.

So I suggest listen to opportunity knocking. If you can get that ETRsi system for $250 - and it's in good condition - grab it. You'll be able to make decent sized prints from it if you do your part. I couldn't open up your KEH shopping cart; I assume the $250 price was not from KEH, sounds too good for that.

A 645 system in general is a good choice. With 15 exp per 120 roll, a bit more economical. Yet contact prints large enough to evaluate. You can have enough of a range of lenses that you shouldn't be immediately looking for something wider or longer. Many used ones on the market and prices for 645 cameras are relatively low. Just be a bit careful as many were heavily used by wedding photographers and may have seen a lot of wear.

Remember to allocate $ for a decent tripod if you don't already have one. I think Manfrotto (was Bogen) offers the most bang for the buck in new ones. A used Tiltall is also a good choice for a 645 camera.

Welcome to APUG and to film photography.

bblhed · Jun 19, 2011

I say that if you want to try the format out, get a Zeiss folding camera. they are reasonable quality and can be had for $50 and under. No, this is not a top on the line all the features camera, but it is a good quality camera that can introduce you to the format and will have a good enough lens on it that you can get a good idea of what medium format can do. These cameras are small and light enough to carry in a large pocket, and well made enough to survive being carried in a pocket.

Most Zeiss folders have focus scales on them, I have learned that for the most part that is something to make the photographer feel like they have some focus control, making these easier to shoot, but hard to get some focus effects. Just think of a Zeiss folding camera as a big fixed focus point and shoot that you have to set aperture and shutter speed on and you will do fine with it.

Remember, whatever you end up shooting, it doesn't have to be the best camera, it has to be the best camera for you.

SimonSutcliffe · Jun 19, 2011

It ended up being about 550$ after I addded it all together but if I take away a few of the lenses maybe I can hit the 350$ mark I have a crazy heavy mamiya tripod my parents professional photographer gave me so ill be in the market for a new one. What do you think aboot 645 with waistlevel viewfinder?
This was my list
1 ETRSI WITHOUT WAISTLEVEL MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS CAMERA BODY

BGN $72.00 $72.00

2 250 F5.6 MC (62) WITH CAPS MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS TELEPHOTO LENS

EX+ $119.00 $119.00

3 75 F2.8 MC (58) MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS STANDARD ANGLE LENS

UG $35.00 $35.00

4 40 F4 MC (62) MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS WIDE ANGLE LENS

BGN $159.00 $159.00

5 50 F2.8 MC (62) MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS WIDE ANGLE LENS

UG $53.00 $53.00

6 120 BACK

UG $37.00 $37.00

7 WAISTLEVEL

EX+ $79.00 $79.00

onepuff · Jun 19, 2011

You would probably tire of carrying the Graflex around if you travel a lot. I had one and they are quite bulky. Any of the others would be good as would a Mamiya SLR or Hasselblad. Fuji made some very good rangefinder cameras but they are more geared to landscape photography. For general use have you considered a Pentax 6x7 or 67? They handle like a (very) large 35mm SLR and can be hand-held in daylight with shortish lenses. There is a good range of accessories and high quality lenses.

removed account4 · Jun 19, 2011

if you are testing the waters for film photography, i would get a
twins lens reflex or a folding mf rangefinder, or a box camera
or a holga or something --- easy portable + inexpensive.
no point in getting a boatload of equipment if you are just testing the waters.
with mf cameras you are tied to an enlarger, so don't forget to include that ...

if it was me ... i would not bother with a mf camera but a press camera with a focal plane shutter, a few film holders.
you process the sheets. you don't need to be tied down to expensive shuttered lenses or finders or ...
and you can shoot paper negatives ( inexpensive alternative to film ) or
sheet film + contact print. the press camera isn't as portable as a tlr
but probably more portable than a bronica and 7 accessories ...
not to mention, they are easy to use with or without a tripod
and did i forget to mention with a focal plane shutter you can
use anything as a lens ... a magnifying glass from the dollar store
or something harvested off of a junk camera, or a ...
if you have your heart set on a mf camera you can get a roll film adapter too
6x7, 6x9, 6x8, 6x6, 6x4.5, even 35mm .... ( alternative lenses with rolls of film ... )

there is a healthy camera trading community here, you can easily sell off
your starter camera for what you got for it, and get something different
if you decide you want to " upgrade "

good luck !

john

CGW · Jun 19, 2011

SimonSutcliffe said:
It ended up being about 550$ after I addded it all together but if I take away a few of the lenses maybe I can hit the 350$ mark I have a crazy heavy mamiya tripod my parents professional photographer gave me so ill be in the market for a new one. What do you think aboot 645 with waistlevel viewfinder?
This was my list
1 ETRSI WITHOUT WAISTLEVEL MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS CAMERA BODY

BGN $72.00 $72.00

2 250 F5.6 MC (62) WITH CAPS MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS TELEPHOTO LENS

EX+ $119.00 $119.00

3 75 F2.8 MC (58) MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS STANDARD ANGLE LENS

UG $35.00 $35.00

4 40 F4 MC (62) MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS WIDE ANGLE LENS

BGN $159.00 $159.00

5 50 F2.8 MC (62) MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS WIDE ANGLE LENS

UG $53.00 $53.00

6 120 BACK

UG $37.00 $37.00

7 WAISTLEVEL

EX+ $79.00 $79.00

Sorry but a WLF on a 645 SLR is a PITA. OK for landscape-oriented shots but totally awkward for portrait-oriented shots. Ditch the WLF in favor of a prism finder--metered or not is your call.

Best Portable Medium format camera for a kid

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