Best Pentax Spotmatic?

darinwc · May 9, 2018

All the Spotmatic cameras seem to be virtually identical.. except for the last Spotmatic F/es/esii.
We're there any that were designed to be upscale/professional?
What do you consider to be objectively the "best"?

Theo Sulphate · May 10, 2018

Pentax LX was their pro-oriented flagship model.

My favorites:

old models: H3V (SV)
SP era: Spotmatic F
K era: KX

btaylor · May 10, 2018

The LX was the pro model. But that came late with the K mount lenses. The earlier M42 screw mount bodies were very similar to each other. I had a couple of them. My impression is that they were very capable and reliable cameras, they were like the Chevrolet of 35mm slr’s in their day. While not as versatile as pro Nikons, the Takumar glass was the equal of any at the time and the bodies were very reliable.

darinwc · May 10, 2018

Let's keep it to m42 mount only. -so the lx doors not qualify. Thanks!

narsuitus · May 10, 2018

I have used a variety of Pentax Spotmatics and all were upscale/professional cameras. Since all are now used cameras, their used condition is probably the most important factor.

Pentax Spotmatics by Narsuitus, on Flickr

Billy Axeman · May 10, 2018

I don't know if any of the Spotmatics can be considerd 'professional' but personally I don't care. I also have an LX but I prefer any Spotmatic for their solid build and classic minimal appearance. The LX feels light and flimsy compared to that.

My favorite is the Pentax ES. It combines a classic design and the durability of the Spotmatics with a possibility for Automatic Exposure (the only other Spotmatic with this feature is the ES II). To enable automatic exposure you need a Takumar S-M-C lens (Super-Multi-Coated).
I prefer the ES above the ES II because the former has a decent battery chamber (for 1x 4SR44). The ES II has a flimsy door below the mount (for 4x SR44).

The ES and ES II inherited some sort of bad name from the Electro Spotmatic, which was very unreliable, but the ES models are solid and reliable. The electronics inside is limited to a small printed circuit board mounted on a single connector behind the bottom-plate for easy maintenance.

The ES and ES II are the last Spotmatic models and are relatively young (1972-1975).

A big selling point for the Spotmatics are the Takumar lenses actually. I wanted to experiment with the 35 and 28 mm lenses (Super-Takumar and SMC) and bought some Spotmatic bodies for them later on (SL, F and ES).

oreston · May 10, 2018

All the Spotmatic models are great cameras, but whether or not an individual specimen is in good condition and has had a CLA in recent years are the most decisive factors 45-50 years on.
That said, if you want a purely mechanical model I'd look particularly for a good example of an original Spotmatic (Asahi or Honeywell branded - it makes no difference) made around 1966-67. The camera had reached it's mature form by then in terms of features and specification but wasn't yet being manufactured on quite the industrial scale that followed in later years. Nor did it yet have the internal mechanical changes that make later cameras a little louder, so an earlier Spottie is likely to be a little smoother, as well as to have slightly better fit and finish. The serial number range I'd look at would be 112xxxxx to 24xxxxx (within which there's a huge gap between approx. 1499xxxx and 23xxxxxx, some of which numbers were allocated to other models such as the SV and S1a).

Dennis-B · May 10, 2018

My choice is the ES-II, and the SP-II. I've owned several Spotmatics, but I really like the last models of the M42 mount. The ES-II continued as the K2, and I also own one of them.

The earlier Spotmatics using the mercury oxide cells were great, but the current solution for using batteries like the Wein cells is really kind of a pain.

The combinations of any of the Spotmatic bodies and Takumar lenses makes photography a delight. Even if you use a hand held meter, they're great cameras.

Paul Howell · May 10, 2018

The pro modes were the Spotmatic F or ES factory modified for a motor drive. Not very fast, somewhere around 2.5 to 3 FPS.

Ian Grant · May 10, 2018

Both the original Spotmatic and the Spotmatic II were good but there were the budget models the SP1000 and SP500, my preference is the Spotmatic F though. I always carried a couple of S1a cameras alongside my SP F when shooting professionally.

Ian

BradS · May 10, 2018

The best Spotmatic? That's a tough one. They're all kinda the same (except the ES and ESII).
For me, the SP1000 is the most pleasing to the eye. It is uncluttered and simply...beautiful.
But in actual use, I prefer the SPII.

Oren Grad · May 10, 2018

BradS said:
The best Spotmatic? That's a tough one. They're all kinda the same (except the ES and ESII).

This.

BradS said:
For me, the SP1000 is the most pleasing to the eye. It is uncluttered and simply...beautiful.

For elegance in simplicity, I'm partial to the SL. The SP1000 and SP500 leave out the self timer, the SL leaves out the meter. Since I don't care for the meter in the SP series but I will use a self timer once in a great while, SL is the one for me. That the SL is a purely mechanical device also appeals to me. (I use cameras with electronic components too and have no problem with that, they're just different "flavors" that I enjoy in their respective ways.)

Context: I have an SP, an SL and an SV. To the extent that I've been using them over the last few years (not much), the SV is the one I've been grabbing most. But I'm very happy to have them all.

John_Nikon_F · May 12, 2018

Spottie-wise, it'd be the II for me. No need to debate using either a diopter or a flash, if desired (more likely a bubble level for me, since flash is relegated to digital in my case).

I'm also partial to the SV/H3v series. My first camera was a well-used H3v that my aunt gave to me for my 9th birthday in 1984. Once all the bugs were sorted out with it, the camera worked pretty well and the quality of the 55/1.8 Super-Multi-Coated Tak I was using with it was quite good. I may get another SV, hopefully a later model black body with the back latch attached to the body casting. Use that with a 50/1.4 Super-Tak, and pop a Nikon DK-22 eyepiece adapter on the back, so I can use my round eyepiece accessories I use with my Nikon bodies on it.

-J

flavio81 · May 19, 2018

darinwc said:
All the Spotmatic cameras seem to be virtually identical.. except for the last Spotmatic F/es/esii.
We're there any that were designed to be upscale/professional?
What do you consider to be objectively the "best"?

There are many subtle differences between the spotties.

The Spotmatic SP has actually two variations, because the SP model was silently updated during production, with a smoother mirror action. You can distinguish the change because the second iteration (NOT the SPII but the SP, second iteration) has a different typeface on the shutter dials (and other cosmetic differences).

The SPII has this smoother mirror action and some more updates:
- "improved shutter" according to Pentax
- film guide roller
- hot shoe
- improved metering range
However, SPII prisms tend to have faults today, while SP prisms usually are find in perfect shape.

The SPIIa (which I own) is a rare model, almost identical to the SPII but with an added sensor for a specific Honeywell flash.

The Spotmatic F might be the most desirable due to wide-open metering, however it uses a circuit similar to the one on the K1000 which means no more on-off switch, but it will depend on a lens cap to turn off the meter. I don't like this and would prefer a switch. I don't have a Spotmatic F by the way, so this is based on my experience with the K1000.

The Electro-Spotmatic must be the most beautiful of all, but it has serious reliability problems.

The ES ought to be the best but the manual selection of speeds is much more limited than the others.

flavio81 · May 19, 2018

Dennis-B said:
The earlier Spotmatics using the mercury oxide cells were great, but the current solution for using batteries like the Wein cells is really kind of a pain.
.

Just use hearing aid cells. I can't remember the exact model, but simply the ones that have enough size to fit. Use a bit of cardboard to keep them centered. This gives the exact voltage the Spotties like, and are extremely cheap.

Billy Axeman · May 20, 2018

As has been said many times before the Spotmatics have a bridge metering cuircuit which is insensitive to battery voltage variations and you can use 1.5V batteries with gives exactly the same reading without compromising accuracy.

There is no need to use zinc-air hearing aide batteries (they run out after a fixed time and they leak). Instead you can drop in a standard SR44 1.5 V battery.

The Spotmatic F has a battery-chamber that is a bit wider, so alternatively you can use a Varta 625 U (or equivalent) which is also 1.5 V, but an SR44 is also possible, just put a rubber or plastic ring around it to fill up the space.

The ES officially uses a 6V 4SR44 which is plenty available today. If you want to standardize on SR44 you can also stack 4 of them wrapped in a thin cardboard envelope to compensate for the smaller diameter.
I did some research for prices lately, but it makes no difference if you use 4SR44 or 4x SR44.

The ES II is already designed for 4x SR44 and you can drop them in directly.

trendland · May 20, 2018

If I understand the model policy of Pentax in regard of Pentax Spotmatic correct (just from remind) then you have 1) the original (named)"Spotmatic" [ I + II ] both with M42.
2.) later Models (KM,KX) on basis of the Spotmatic body. .......last was the very cheap K1000 : parts of K1000 Models asembled in China. So the LX isn't a Spotmatic (as the m - series are with total new design ...me,mx,me-super).
with regards

trendland · May 20, 2018

Ok - I forgot the E series that's also on basis of Spotmatic body.But LX chassis is total different.........
with regards

Billy Axeman · May 20, 2018

First there were the early mechanical models without a meter and without a battery (AP, S-types and K), then after 1964 the Manual Spotmatics mostly with lightmeter (Spotmatic, SL, Spotmatic II and IIa, SP500, SP1000), and from 1973 the Spotmatic F, Electro Spotmatic, ES, ES II, ES II Motor Drive (last model).

All of them M42 mount and cloth shutter.

The SL (1968-1971?) is the last mechanical model without lightmeter.
The ES and ESII are the only models with a possibility for fully automatic exposure (with S-M-C lenses), I don't know about the Electro Spotmatic but this model was only sold in Japan.

The K-mount camera's appeared in 1975 with KM, KX and K2 as first models.

TonyB65 · May 20, 2018

I have an S1a (same as H1a) which I recently picked up and it had the dreaded mirror lockup and dragging shutter curtain, other than that it's in mint condition. It took me 5 minutes and a drop of oil to restore it to full working order, all shutter speeds working as normal. I don't bother with cameras with meters of this era, they're generally unreliable and can fail at any time.. The purely mechanical models are great, no batteries or meters to worry about and they just keep on going with minimal maintenance. I don't need any bells and whistles and a handheld meter is easy to carry, or just use sunny 16. The less complexity you have on a camera of this era the longer it will last, I expect my newly acquired S1a will last longer than I will and it's a great little camera.

trendland · May 20, 2018

Billy Axeman said:
First there were the early mechanical models without a meter and without a battery (AP, S-types and K), then after 1964 the Manual Spotmatics mostly with lightmeter (Spotmatic, SL, Spotmatic II and IIa, SP500, SP1000), and from 1973 the Spotmatic F, Electro Spotmatic, ES, ES II, ES II Motor Drive (last model).

All of them M42 mount and cloth shutter.

The SL (1968-1971?) is the last mechanical model without lightmeter.
The ES and ESII are the only models with a possibility for fully automatic exposure (with S-M-C lenses), I don't know about the Electro Spotmatic but this model was only sold in Japan.

The K-mount camera's appeared in 1975 with KM, KX and K2 as first models.

Thanks for your info. I bought a nice book about all the pentax models years ago. I have read it more than twice (very interisting issues about Pentax) But I can't get it all in mind. The early models I newer saw again. (with one exeption). Just wanted to ask Ian Grant (as he mentioned professional work with Spotmatic) if his models have had lightmeter.I remember pure manual adjustments. (with extern meter control) - but here you mentioned it : Full manual control.
with regards
PS: Sometimes a big advantage (without batteries) - the day is allways comming with discontinuation of batteries (SR 44 is still avaible). LR 44 got a renaissance from cheap chineese toys.

flavio81 · May 20, 2018

Billy Axeman said:
As has been said many times before the Spotmatics have a bridge metering cuircuit which is insensitive to battery voltage variations and you can use 1.5V batteries with gives exactly the same reading without compromising accuracy.

There is no need to use zinc-air hearing aide batteries (they run out after a fixed time and they leak). Instead you can drop in a standard SR44 1.5 V battery..

This is not exactly true, because the resting position on the SP and SPII is not the center of the needle. Thus, voltage still plays a part.

Only the K1000 and the Spotmatic F are insensitive.

Unless you don't care about precision or shooting slide film.

Billy Axeman · May 20, 2018

flavio81 said:
This is not exactly true, because the resting position on the SP and SPII is not the center of the needle. Thus, voltage still plays a part.
Only the K1000 and the Spotmatic F are insensitive.
Unless you don't care about precision or shooting slide film.

Hi Flavio,

I don't know the exact construction of the various metering circuits, but I can imagine the galvanometer isn't always directly connected to the output of the bridge. There could be a driver-circuit between bridge and the display to translate the zero point (bridge in balance) to the desired display in the viewfinder.

Of course we are not talking about a simple bridge wit 4 resistors; it is a circuit with inputs from light sensor, aperture value, shutter speed, exposure compensation and ASA setting.

Practically, I have seen many reports from people saying that a 1.5 V battery is working properly on their Spotmatic, and I have never seen anybody contradicting that with an example specifically for one model.

If anybody has a Spotmatic that wasn't metering properly with 1.5 V battery I like to hear that, and I will accommodate accordingly.

faberryman · May 20, 2018

My first camera was an SP500. It was a like a miracle after learning on my fathers Exakta VX with waist level finder. Stop down metering, but metering nonetheless. Had it for about four years before trading into the Olympus OM system. Pentax didn't have nearly the breadth of fast lens selection. But I still like the classic design of the Spotmatic line.

trendland · May 21, 2018

flavio81 said:
This is not exactly true, because the resting position on the SP and SPII is not the center of the needle. Thus, voltage still plays a part.

Only the K1000 and the Spotmatic F are insensitive.

Unless you don't care about precision or shooting slide film.

Remeber to shot professional slides with K1000 without batteries. If I am correct there was no power off bottom with K1000. So if the lanscap isn't on the lens you have permanantely messuring in "on" position - that means : all times low batteries. (I often forgot the cape) At last I did not care about
messuring with that Pentax (all the time manual exposure) and it has gone good with the prof. shooting with KDK 25
( photos for a Video cover ) due to exposure series....

with regards

Best Pentax Spotmatic?

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