Best medium format folder value

Ariston · Apr 24, 2019

Let's pretend for a second that I need yet another camera. What is the best value in folder cameras?... Lowest price for the best images. I may need it to have a rangefinder, because I am not well practiced in zone focussing; and I prefer it to be as compact as possible.

Brand recognition is not important to me at all, so value does not need to consider resale value, even though the big names can often be sold for what you paid, when you are done with them.

Sirius Glass · Apr 24, 2019

Whatever they have in stock at KEH. Support your hometown camera store.

Ariston · Apr 24, 2019

If you only knew - I'm pretty sure I am single-handedly keeping KEH in business!

Dan Daniel · Apr 24, 2019

Format? 6x6, 6x4.5, 6x9?

JPD · Apr 24, 2019

The East German 6x9 Zeiss Ercona/Ercona II with 3,5/105 Tessar is a very good choice, but you may want an accessory rangefinder for it.

Pentode · Apr 24, 2019

The Seagull 203 has a surprisingly good lens for a camera with such a low price and sketchy build quality.

The Moskva 2, if found in good working order, is quite a good camera and the lens is excellent. These often hold up better than the more popular Moskva 5.

If you sacrifice the rangefinder Ansco viewfinder folders can be found for dirt cheap and often have great glass.

Some of the early Japanese 6x6 folders such as the first-generation Mamiya Six can still be found at affordable prices.

Luckless · Apr 24, 2019

How precise do you want your focus to be? - Ruling out the "simple cameras" for want of a few minutes experimenting with a focus scale might be a disappointing way to rule out a lot of excellent little cameras if you're not aiming for super-wide-open and razor thin DOF up close photography...

Personally I think the bigger question might be how critical you feel about film advance mechanism choice... I've not gotten a lot of film through an old folder yet, but I'm rather on the fence about whether or not I'm happy with manually advancing film with a red window. A linked-range finder with automatic frame counter sounds amazing... But I've not yet seen one for $20-50 in a store.

Paul Howell · Apr 24, 2019

I think a Kodak Tourister, not the entry level modes with 3 shutter speeds and slow 3 element lens, the more advanced models with the 4 element Tessar type lens, 6X9, I got mine for $7.00. Build quality is good. Down side, scale focus, you need an external rangefinder if that is important to you, and takes 620 spools. I respool film without issue, just time consuming. I second the Mamiya 6, I one as well, the 75mm lens is quite good.

Ariston · Apr 24, 2019

Dan Daniel said:
Format? 6x6, 6x4.5, 6x9?

I should have mentioned... I would like 6x6, but 645 is good, too.

Ariston · Apr 24, 2019

Maybe I should try scale focussing more. I've tried it quite a bit with a dslr and am really bad at it, for some reason. I probably just need to commit more time to practice.

I'm going to check out some of these suggestions - thanks!

Sirius Glass · Apr 24, 2019

Use the focusing scale for hyper focusing, if the camera will let you.

abruzzi · Apr 24, 2019

I don't know if they are a good value, and I don't even own one, but I've been looking at the Mamiya 6 pre-Automat. They tic all the boxes for me and are pretty cheap. Also the Olympus Six seem to be in the same range.

Dan Daniel · Apr 24, 2019

With some patience, the Zeiss Super Ikonta 6x6 camera, with a Tessar lens. The one where the rangefinder is still on the lens board but is permanently open, not on a rotating stalk. I just missed one of the later models, the III (three), with a coated Tessar (usually they have a Novar or such three- element lens). It went for $155 on Ebay, to give oyu an idea.

Also any Voigtlander with a Skopar lens- either 6x6 or 6x4.5 (Baby Bessa). Zone focusing, but you can figure it out.

Personally I really like the pre-WWII Zeiss Super Ikonta 531/16- 6x4.5, coupled rangefinder (but separate window), uncoated Tessar lens. Fits in a jacket pocket, although the weight will make your jacket sag to one side. Not the easiest to find in working condition, but worth looking for. Those uncoated Tessars are sweet.

mgb74 · Apr 24, 2019

As Paul said, Kodak tourist with anaston probably offers the best image for the dollar. They are cheap, but you have to put up with 620 film and they're bulky.

For 645, ih check out the Zenobia.

darinwc · Apr 25, 2019

I've seen great images come out of a Zenobia. They are 645 and can be had very inexpensively.
Even though 6x9 sounds sexy, they are much larger than you would expect. And much more fragile than you would expect. 6X4.5 or 6x6 Is much more practical.

If you are outdoors and taking photos of scenery, using the hyper focal distances is quite easy. But closer than about 20 feet in dim light or 10 feet in daylight , it gets harder.

Even scale focusing can get out of alignment. Get a sheet of vellum from a craft store.cut it to size. Use a very small amount of tape. Check the distances neat and far. Use a tape measure for the nearest focus. * often the focus is calculated from the lens nor the film.
Then try estimating the distance and check the image with the vellum to see how you did.

Vaidotas · Apr 25, 2019

Fujica GS645 for 6x4,5
Check bellows if they are original
And needs attention for folding up.

Super Ikonta 6x6 whatever you like with no abuse for square.

bernard_L · Apr 25, 2019

You ask for best value/money. Folders with a coupled rangefinder do not fit that description, because of status they command premium prices. IMO, best value for money is a non-RF folder, with an auxiliary RF (Watameter of similar, 15€/$ if you are reasonably patient). The aux RF will spend most of the time in your pocket, and be called upon only when you have a main subject, say less than 2m away. Plus, your aux RF can be shared between several folders, in case you are a (gasp) collector.
Case in point: my Perkeo I, (cost me maybe 30€ at photo fair). 4 element Tessar-like color-Skopar. Probably smallest 6x6 folder.

Lanline · Apr 25, 2019

darinwc said:
I've seen great images come out of a Zenobia. They are 645 and can be had very inexpensively.
Even though 6x9 sounds sexy, they are much larger than you would expect. And much more fragile than you would expect. 6X4.5 or 6x6 Is much more practical.

If you are outdoors and taking photos of scenery, using the hyper focal distances is quite easy. But closer than about 20 feet in dim light or 10 feet in daylight , it gets harder.

Even scale focusing can get out of alignment. Get a sheet of vellum from a craft store.cut it to size. Use a very small amount of tape. Check the distances neat and far. Use a tape measure for the nearest focus. * often the focus is calculated from the lens nor the film.
Then try estimating the distance and check the image with the vellum to see how you did.

I have several ZENOBIA. I've paid between $20 to $45 each for them. The shutters are very rugged, the glass is really sharp, no issues with the bellows. I bought one having never heard of them. I was shocked at how good the quality was! I met a local photographer who knew the camera right away, he said he printed images for an exhibition for Jerome Liebling back in the 1980s. He said it was one of the cameras that Jerome Liebling used.

trendland · Apr 25, 2019

Ariston said:
I should have mentioned... I would like 6x6, but 645 is good, too.

Ariston - from my side the folder 6x6 Fuji, what is also mentioned here, could serve you relative advanced technology and has special electronic features you perhaps would need!
In regard of messurement, focussing a.s.o!
But I can't know if you perhaps prefer a 6x6 vintage folder (without messurement without batteries ) - back to the roots?
Well (beside the conception/technics) there is also a difference in pricing sight :

this is an example from Japan (I made excellent experience with Japnese Ebay sellers btw )
It looks like it is "nearly new" !

But if I unterstand your post in direction of best quality/price relation : it would be a very hard job
to get more quality concerning pricing than from this here :

In general : with a vintage folder camera the chief concerning exposure is allways the photographer! = no messurement! But if you are shooting bw film it is a realy good training
to learn with that! Later you can change to color film and E6!
The distance (focusing the lens) can be easily set with the help of deep of field tables - it is also
easy going after a week of practice! There is a deep of field calculator (mechanical) onto the camera top!

Hmmm.....? To shot without autofocus - is that a possible play for you?

with regards

trendland · Apr 25, 2019

Lanline said:
I have several ZENOBIA. I've paid between $20 to $45 each for them. The shutters are very rugged, the glass is really sharp, no issues with the bellows. I bought one having never heard of them. I was shocked at how good the quality was! I met a local photographer who knew the camera right away, he said he printed images for an exhibition for Jerome Liebling back in the 1980s. He said it was one of the cameras that Jerome Liebling used.

Lanline - I never heard about "Zenobia" but I remember films - so my first thought was
ZOMBIEA = a "Zombie" cam?

Seriously this camera has absolute same technical conception like many others out of that periode
(1950 - midt 60s)! Is it a nice play to operate it - like my describtion concerning the AGFA?
with regards

PS : Good pricing you had realized I just saw one at EBay at about USD 79,-!!

trendland · Apr 25, 2019

bernard_L said:
You ask for best value/money. Folders with a coupled rangefinder do not fit that description, because of status they command premium prices. IMO, best value for money is a non-RF folder, with an auxiliary RF (Watameter of similar, 15€/$ if you are reasonably patient). The aux RF will spend most of the time in your pocket, and be called upon only when you have a main subject, say less than 2m away. Plus, your aux RF can be shared between several folders, in case you are a (gasp) collector.
Case in point: my Perkeo I, (cost me maybe 30€ at photo fair). 4 element Tessar-like color-Skopar. Probably smallest 6x6 folder.

But we are not talking about a laser auxillary RF - because we would not shoot at sparrows with cannons ? What is that rangefinder about you mentioned?
I just googled it but can't find it - but I remember Leica rangefinders out of the 30s!

Well we are not talking about a viewfinder :

...because you allways would need a distance between T W O optical systems to messure distance!

But we are also not talking about this (I guess it is not meant....) :

So what is it ?

with regards

StepheKoontz · Apr 25, 2019

A warning on the agfa folders, they have a bad habit of the grease used for focusing turning to glue. Also, I've found the front cell focusing models to not be as good for distance shooting as the more rare type that move the whole lens/shutter to focus. The Kodak Duo 620 is one that does but you have to respool 120 to 620... Welta made a few "bed focusing" or helical cameras with a rangefinder, but for some reason the bellows on those tend to go bad so check that.

JPD · Apr 25, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
A warning on the agfa folders, they have a bad habit of the grease used for focusing turning to glue.

And most of them have lower quality bellows that have developed pinholes. Only the late production of Isolettes have good real leather bellows. It's almost a rule that Agfa folders need work before they can be used.

Sewin · Apr 25, 2019

Nettars are good value, but I now use a Kodak 66, this one cost me £10.

Although the top plate is some kind of plastic it's a nice solid little camera with strong bellows.

trendland · Apr 25, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
A warning on the agfa folders, they have a bad habit of the grease used for focusing turning to glue. Also, I've found the front cell focusing models to not be as good for distance shooting as the more rare type that move the whole lens/shutter to focus. The Kodak Duo 620 is one that does but you have to respool 120 to 620... Welta made a few "bed focusing" or helical cameras with a rangefinder, but for some reason the bellows on those tend to go bad so check that.

Hmmm - that may be right.....! But these Agfas are (perhaps due to this issue, real cheap)!
One may order some at once and check them possible use the best one!
Overhowling is also easy going because of simplest design!

with regards

Best medium format folder value

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