BEST LF PORTRAITURE LENS ?

[Roger Evans]

Esteemed APUG members,

What, in your opinion, is the best lens for portraiture on a 5 X 4 Ebony field camera ? I love using 100 ml on 35 and 180mm on 6x 7, so a 300 would seem the answer. However, these are huge lenses to put on the poor old Ebony.

Has anyone tried the Fujinon 300T or the Schneider 250 tele xenar ?

Best wishes,

Roger.

 

[Ole]

I'd go for a 240mm Heliar or similar, but that may be just because I happen to have one...

Telephoto lenses are not often good portrait lenses.

 

[keeds]

One of Jim's smaller Petzvals?

 

[Pinholemaster]

Cooke PS 945 if you can find one. They are selling for twice their new price.

http://www.cookeoptics.com/cooke.ns...ea6ebec9c195544585256e850029570e?OpenDocument

But then there is no 'Best'. The best lens is one that does not call attention to itself. The portrait, regardless of the lens used, should speak for itself. Some of my best portraits have been taken with wide angle lenses so the portrait resides in location.

 

[Matus Kalisky]

Well, technically speaking to use 300 mm lens on a 4x5 camera you also need up to cca 450mm bellows extension. If the lens is fast (f/4.5 or so) this may really be a lot of weight. You may consider lenses in the 240 - 270 mm range like Fujinon W f/6.3 (you do not need the HUGE coverage of the older single coated f/6.7 wersion).

A "dedicated" portrait lens will be heavy as they are fast lenses. If you are considering Fujinon 300/8 T than you can consider some of the slower and much lighter lenses as well like, G-Claron 240, 270, Fujinon A 240, 300 or others, but these are usually not consireded as portrait lenses as they were designed to get as sharp and contrasty photos as possible, while the potrait lenses like the mentioned Cooke, Heliar or Petzval should give you softer look with a "distinct character" (each lens is different). Just chack some of the photos here around or on the forum of www.largeformatphotography.info/forum they speak for themselves.

It all depends what look you are after and how much you want to invest (the Cooke PS 945 will cost you a first-born)

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

the Fuji 300T is an adequate portrait lens, but I would not consider it ideal, first for the relatively slow f8 aperture and second for the limited image circle, should you want to apply any movements at all. I've used it when I had nothing else in that focal length range, and it was fine so long as I wanted the entire subject's head in sharp focus for head/shoulders portraits. The f8 makes it a little harder to blur out your backgrounds with full-length portraits. I'd suggest a 12" Commercial Ektar f/6.3 . While not radically faster than the Fuji, it can still be fitted on a Technika board that your Ebony takes.

 

[JBrunner]

On 4x5 for peeps things look wonky until you get out to a 210, which I find to be the best compromise. Because with movements to isolate the focus on the subject, it is not hard to achieve many different bokeh.

That said, my 4x5 portraits are now shot on an old speed graphic with a collection of old barrel lenses.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

It depends on the look you're after. Most 210-240mm plasmats (Symmar, Sironar) and tessars (Xenars, Commercial Ektars, and various others) are nice and not too costly. The Cooke PS945 is a beautiful lens in a modern shutter, which you might be able to afford on an Ebony budget, but you could also find a number of classic portrait lenses (Verito, Petzval, Imagon, Heliar, and others) and even pay for custom mounting for oversize lenses for less than the cost of a PS945. The older lenses may be in barrel or single-speed shutters, but if you use strobes in the studio, you don't need more than one shutter speed.

 

[Roger Evans]

Thank you everyone. What I'm trying to do is find is a lens which will work well for portraiture and other things such as landscape - but yet doesn't have the huge weight of the fully fledged Rodenstock 240mm, which is a bit pointelss for a light field camera.

First of all ; focal length - 250, 300 or what else would you recommend ?

Secondly does anyone favour tele lenses ? Or has anyone used the Schneider 250 tele ?

I'd prefer sharpness over atmos, so the older style barrel lenses don't appeal.

This is a terrific forum - you have all very kindly taken the time to reply much more quickly than i anticipated. Sharing your knowledge and expertise with me is greatly appreciated.

By the way Jason, I love your bacon video on Youtube.

Thank you.

Roger.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you want sharp and not too large a lens, a 210mm Symmar or Sironar is ideal. Modern 240mm lenses are usually designed for 8x10" coverage and tend to come in Copal 3 shutters. 210mm plasmats are usually in Copal 1 shutters and are generally considered good all around portrait and still life lenses.

The idea that a portrait lens needs to be twice the "normal" focal length for natural perspective doesn't necessarily scale up in format. 210mm is a pretty common portrait focal length on 4x5", 360mm on 8x10". Ron Wisner wrote a good article about this, which I think appeared in _View Camera_ magazine, but may be somewhere on his website.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

David- he USED to have that article on his website. I did a search and couldn't find it anymore. The gist of it was that as you get larger in format, there is greater and greater magnification of the subject, to the point that on ULF formats (11x14 and larger), a head-and-shoulders portrait is actually a 1:1 reproduction. Because of the magnification factor, a normal lens behaves like a telephoto, and a wide behaves like a normal (to a point). He had some numbers in the article to back up the assertion, which I don't recall how the math worked.

 

[Trevor Crone]

Hi Roger,

On the rare occasion when I shoot portraits but certainly with landscapes I do enjoy the 210 Xenar and my 240 tele-congo in a copal press no.1 shutter. Both are light and compact and lack of sharpness is certainly not an issue with either lens. I also use an Ebony (SW) and I have to use these lenses on extension tubes (top-hat) for infinity focus.

Regards,
Trevor.

 

[removed account4]

hi roger

you might look into a schneider symmar convertible.
i there is one that goes 150-210 ... the 210 ( front element off )
schneider suggests is a portrait lens, it has a nice look opened up
and is sharp stopped down. you might also look around for a shuttered
tessar 21cm. really beautiful opened up, and sharp stopped down.
i don't know if they come with a shutter, mine is on a slr and is a barrel.

good luck!
john

 

[Struan Gray]

I dont really like the way classic portrait lenses make things look, but among Jim Galli's lens tests his Aviar really stands out for a combination of sharp in-focus parts across the field and nicely blurred background.

210-360 mm focal lengths in barrel go for very little money on eBay.uk, so they're cheap to try out. Look for f5.6 air ministry anastigmats, they are almost always Aviars.

I make portraits with APO-Ronars. They are a similar 4-4 construction, albeit a little more clinical in the background. Again, cheap to try, even multicoated in shutter. Up to 300 mm they are in Copal 1 shutters, and are small and light compared to almost anything else.

240 is a nice focal length for me. It has the same feel as 150 on 6x6 and 70-80 mm on 35 mm. I have a 16" Verito and a monster 440 mm Cooke-style portrait objective, but nine times out of ten I reach for the 240 mm. I use both a Germinar-W (plasmat, like G-clarons and Symmars and Sironars), and an Apo-ronar in barrel. I don't find a maximum aperture of f9 significantlly different from f5.6 for the sort of shots i make - usually soft natural lighting near a big window.

 

[MikeK]

I picked up a Fuji 250mm SF lens with disks, it is a tad large as it is mounted in a Copal 3 shutter, but works just fine on my Shen Hao 4x5. It has ample coverage and I also use it on my 5x7 and 8x10. Very pleased with the results.

It is soft focus lens, however, beyond f11 and smaller it is a very sharp lens and completely looses the soft focus effect. My other fav portrait lens is the Fuji A - 240mm but I find a need a lot of light for critical focussing - my poor old eyes

Mike

 

[JBrunner]

If sharp is the deal, I say 210 Symmar as well. Good all around lens at a good price.

I'm glad you like the bacon vid!

 

[BrianShaw]

I picked up a Fuji 250mm SF lens with disks, it is a tad large as it is mounted in a Copal 3 shutter, but works just fine on my... Very pleased with the results.

Me too!

 

[panchro-press]

Hope I'm not off-track here: a short (6") Graf Variable with a packard should fill the bill.

 

[BradS]

the "Best" portrait lens for 4x5?

The Cooke ps is probably the "Best" but since I can no way afford one, I like and use 210mm Geronar. Small, light weight, with plenty of room on 4x5. It can be sharp when you want it to be but it can also be a little soft - which is nice for people. The softness of the Geronar is not obnoxious and distracting. Rather, it is subtle and smooth. Barely noticible but effective.

The Geronar is a modern lens of classic design. It has multi-coated glass and is almost always found in modern black Copal #1 shutter. Best of all, this is the lens that everybody loves to poo-poo so they're also cheap and readily available.

 

[Matus Kalisky]

I have the Rodenstock Geronar 210/6.8 too. I use it for general photography and works very well for me (though I had thoughts to get a FUjinon 210/5.6 much heavier). I would just add that the same lens can be found as Caltar II-E 210/6.8 .

For a few nice portraits taken with this lens have a look at THIS gallery on Flickr by one of the members here (if I remember correctly)

 

[dpurdy]

I would go along with the 210 suggestion. Personally I could just about totally get along fine with only a 210 lens and a camera with at least 14 inches bellows, studio, landscape or portrait. I have done some portraiture with the rear element taken off the nikkor 210 and got glowing beautiful soft focus images.

As to working with a 300 for portraits, I have done that but I like to be a little closer to the subject just to feel more in touch with them.

 

[jimgalli]

I think Ole nailed it in the second post. The only thing better than a 240mm Heliar is the Cooke PS 945. The Heliar is quite affordable in comparison. Another sleeper that I like and it's quite compact is the #4 Gundlach Turner Reich combined (18 inch and 24 inch iirc) convertible that gives 10 3/4 inch focal. Very small and light and it actually gives a very nice rendering wide open. Sorry but I would purposely steer clear of modern multicoated super duper's for portraits.

 

[Charles Webb]

Jim,
Can you squeeze full coverage on 8x10 with the Cooke PS 945? I have not tried it, but thought it would be two short for 8x10. I wish that the guys that designed it (PS945) had built it in a longer focal length. I actually feel it in use is actually a bit short for 4x5.

Charlie.....................................

 

[jimgalli]

Hi Charlie. I haven't had the pleasure of owning one so I can only make an educated guess based on similar lenses. I think it may darken the very corners on 8X10 but if someone moved in for a portrait it would probably cover. 9" is just too short for 8X10 portraits though. You might get away with it on full plate but it's really designed to be used on a 4X5. Perspective would begin to work for you on a 4X5. As to the size and length, I can almost hear the folks at Cooke saying it'll have to fit in a Copal 3 shutter or nobody will know what to do with it. The 9" was as big as they could go in a shutter. Even it is a compromise starting at f5.6 while the old P&S lenses began at f4. There's a LOT of action in these lenses lost between f4 and f5.6 as you well know. Still my hat is off to them for making this lens in modern times. And the prices prove they were well on the right track. It is without a doubt a modern classic.

 

[Mark Sawyer]

While I've never heard of it being tried, I wonder whether the PS945 would work as a convertible, using just the rear doublet as a longer focal length for 8x10? There have been some well-loved portrait lenses that were doublets (Kodak Portrait Lenses, Imagons, converted Veritos...)