Best ISO 400 B&W 35mm Film?

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Aurum

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Seems to me there are two camps starting to set up.
One prefer the traditional old school emulsions and the flexibility they have, and the others prefer the newer emulsions which have benefits in robustness and tolerance, but a different feel.

Throw in the differences between product manufactured by Fuji/Ilford/Kodak, and thats what makes film so interesting
 

Ray Heath

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Efke 400

Foma 400

Forte 400

Fuji Neopan 400
Fuji Neopan 400CN (C41)

Ilford HP5+
Ilford Delta 400
Ilford XP2 Super (C41)

Kodak Tri-X
Kodak TMAX 400
Kodak BW400CN (C41)

Rollei Retro 400 (Agfa APX 400)

Just try a roll of each in D-76 1+1 or XTOL 1+1 (except for the C41 ones of course), and you'll know. That's more or less what I did.

surely you jest? you tried all those films, same subject, same lighting, same exposure, same ... everything?

so, what conclusions did you draw?
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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surely you jest? you tried all those films, same subject, same lighting, same exposure, same ... everything?

so, what conclusions did you draw?

A tad. I was just looking for a general impression of the films. Conclusions?

Tri-X for everything!
 

Paul Howell

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Thanks. I've been using Neopan 400 in Xtol 1:1 for medium format and love it. But 35mm is a whole new ballpark. Grain matters and everything is more nit-picky.

Shoot a medium speed film like Plus X, PF 4, or Tmax 100.
 

Paul Howell

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... 35mm is a whole new ballpark. Grain matters and everything is more nit-picky.
/QUOTE]


g'day all

Paul, why? how? to what end?

For 35mm if you are really intrested in fine grain then simply use a finer grain film. I am sure differnt folks have a differnt take on this but I feel that the majiority of a film look is in the film not the developer. I like the grain in older elmusions such as Forma Pan 400, but when I need to shoot for smaller grain and need to use 35mm rather than MF or LF I use Plus X or Tmax 100 rather than try to find a developer that will give me fine grain and high defintion and still shoot at 400 speed. If I really want fine grain I use Pan F or Efke 25. My thinking is there is no free lunch, there is always a trade off.
 
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loki120

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humm... if i can comment, i'm not a big ilford fan... i only use the Delta3200 for extreme light conditions... anyway i have a couple opf other options for you. Rollei Retro 400 and Rollei R3.

The Rollei Retro 400 is a nice film with a not so fine, but really pleasant grain (i dislike the grain in Delta400).

The R3 is a very costly emulsion and hemm... is not a 400 iso too... you could use it 64 to 6400 iso... I often use the R3 at 400 iso and is the best emulsion around for my tastes. It had a really good contrast and fine grain (even using D76) @ 400 iso, and a wonderful heavy old-school grain @ 1600 iso using its dedicated developer (i guess a HC110 variant from rollei). Incredible using the EMOFIN 2 STep from TETENAL.
 

takef586

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I have tried Tmax400-2 at ISO 250 in Rodinal 1+50 for 8 mins - great sharpness, great tonality, the grain could be finer, but is totally acceptable - as others here have said, try it with the developers you like - my guess is, it could work great in FX39 too, if you need 400 ISO true speed, then Xtol could be better. An alternative in old style films? Kodak PX at ISO400 in Diafine.
 

Snapshot

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At first I thought APX 400 was too grainy for its speed but I'm starting to appreciate it's tone range and ascetics. It's not the "best" but I really like it.
 

edtbjon

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There's been a few comments touching this before, but here goes again. The F100 is a very fast camera, especially compared to any medium format camera. (This was the reason for me selling my F100. It was too fast for me. :smile: I.e. I like to comptemplate a little on how to expose etc. but with this camera it was too easy to just point and press the button. The exposure and focus point was always spot on. Good for sports, but photography is my way of relaxing...)
To my point: I recon that you still have your MF camera. In that case, don't try to compare the two. Give the small 35mm format a chance to excel in it's own properties. Let there be some grain or even, let there be lots of grain. It's part of shooting small format. For me a fast 35mm camera gives me the opportunity to grab shots that I simply cannot get with my Hasselblad, let alone my Sinar. But there's a different feel and smell to these "fasts shots" and in my mind these shots from the hip so to say only becomes better with a bit of grain.
Also, an important part of the equation is what lens you are using. My first choice was the AF 35-70 f/2.8 D, which was rather big and small range but in some regards almost as good as prime lenses. Optical quality really makes a difference when the film format is smaller. You can get away with a rather mediocre lens on a LF camera, while a similar lens on a 35mm camera will look like an instamatic shot.
When I used this camera (6-8 years ago) I was reviving my photograhy interest and I tried to make the best out of standard material first, only this time around I would be really careful with film developing procedures etc. In b/w I mostly shot Tri-X souped in D76 1:1. I really liked the results and often printed 11x14" prints which were really pleasing to my eye. Also, I often were very positively surprised as I didn't expect that good results from plain ol' Tri-X. I did shoot a number of TMX rolls too and some of the 12x16" prints from them are really outstanding (at least from the technical viewpoint, e.g. grain, sharpness etc).
What also really does make a difference is the way you print the negatives. In larger sizes the type of light is less noticeable, but I really do prefer a good condenser enlarger for 35mm. I use a Leitz Focomat IIc, but a good Durst is nice too.
Last, and for the record: While most of my photography is done in MF and LF, I did get me a cheap N80 with a beaten but still good 35-70 lens. It has similar capabilities as the F100, so if I want that it's there. What's lacking is top speed and ruggedness, but I'm getting older and more careful nowadays. :smile: I recon that the last sign of me being somewhat "jurassic" is the fact that what's bulging in my pocket isn't a pack of Camels (or should that be "a roll of quarters") but a Rollei 35S. :smile:

//Björn
 

selenium96

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I switched to Delta 400 in D-76 1:1 about 15 years ago after being a 20 year Tri-X shooter. My daughter loves HP-5. I am reprinting some of my 30 year old Tri-X negatives and love the results. I like the grain and tones of Delta 400 on Ilford paper. My main thing is consistent negatives so I don't struggle when I print. Delta 400 is pretty forgiving with exposure and I need forgiveness.
 

Tom Hoskinson

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Once again.

TMY-2 in Pyrocat or in XTOL.
 

lawrenceimpey

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For me the various 400 films seem to work better in different situations and they each have the own look. Neopan 400 works brilliantly in controlled light, especially flash, but it's too easy to blow out the highlights for it to be my general purpose 400. Tri-X can be rated at 800 in undiluted D76 and give you as much shadow detail as any of the other films at 400 -- so you gain a stop for nothing. HP4 is sharp and punchy but relatively grainy. Delta 400 is smooth and creamy with lots of midtones. The old TMY looked like it had been developed in Rodinal even when it hadn't and so on. So which is the best? All of them, I'd say...
 
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I don't know how to answer a question like this. All films are good in their own way. For me I continuously fall back on Kodak Tri-X 400 for 35mm. I don't know why to be honest, but it gives the best overall result for me. I develop my 35mm film in Pyrocat against all recommendation. I love the results and get really good looking grain that way.

The questions will prove that it really is a matter of taste what is 'best'. I'm not even I know that for my own purposes, much less give a general recommendation.
The only film manufacturers I've dealt with where I have never ever had a single problem with quality, where the film was within its expiration date, is Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, and Agfa. Agfa is no longer, Neopan 400 is awesome film, and if you use a compensating developer your highlights should be fine. Kodak and Ilford, you can't go wrong. To me it's more of a difference with how you use the film than what brand and kind you use. I can shoot the same scene twice with Tri-X film; process and print it so that they look completely different.
I could take some heat for claiming this - but you can get great results with any 400-speed film out there. Just learn it and learn it well. One isn't better than the other. I would worry about printing skills and darkroom technique more than what film I use.
- Thomas
 

jim appleyard

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Thomas, try Plus-X, 120 in Pyrocat with a Mamiya. I hear it's great! :D :D :D
 
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Gentlemen, I thought it was about 400-speed film... :D
HAH! ...said the weird Swedish guy.
But, if you must, don't forget to take your socks off when you develop the film. Plus-X pretty much requires it.
- Thomas
 

JanaM

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I just got a great deal on a Nikon F100 on ebay, so I'm going to rekindle my love for shooting small format film after years with medium format rangefinders. I use almost exclusively Neopan 400 in 120.

I was wondering what the differences are between some of the finest grain 400 speed films available. I'd like to choose a finer grain film as compared to Tri-x or HP5 and also definatley want a 400 speed one.

....

I plan to develop my 35mm film in Xtol diluted 1:1. This seems to give a good balance between fine grain and sharpness.

Hello Brian,

some friends and me have done film tests on a scientific basis during the last months. We have examined resolution, sharpness, grain, effective speed.

Our results: The finest grain 400 speed films available are the Kodak TMY-2 and the Kodak BW 400 CN.
Furthermore TMY-2 has the best resolution and sharpness of all 400 speed films, and the speed of this film is really 400/27° ISO.

For example we have done tests wirth resolution charts with contrast 1000:1. Black lines on a white surface. Here we got the same resolution with TMY-2 and TMX! So exact the same results like in the Kodak data sheets of both films.
TMX has finer grain and a bit better resolution with low contrast subjects.
In terms of resolution and sharpness TMY-2 is excellent for a 400 speed film. Resolution is better than Delta 100!
Kodak has done a very good job with this film. Respect!

We've got system resolutions (prime lens + film) of about 100 Lp/mm with TMY-2 (you need a microscope, an excellent enlarging lens or an excellent drum scanner to see it).
In comparison we've got (only) 80 LP/mm with the 22 MP digital Canon EOS 1 Ds MKIII (80 Lp/mm is the physical resolution limit of a 22 MP Sensor, more is not possible).

If you want a 400 speed film with excellent resolution, sharpness and very fine grain, TMY-2 is the film for you.
We would recommend Spur HRX-2 and XTOL 1:1 as developers. HRX-2 gives a bit more sharpness, XTOL is more flexible, because you can use it for push processing as well.

I don't comment on tonality, that is a matter of taste. I like TMY-2, but other 400 films as well.

Regards,
Jana
 
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