Best enlarger for 35mm up to 4x5?

[markd514]

I have a beseler 45 with colorhead that fits the bill, and is really nice. I have a 23cii with colorhead next to it that does 35mm and 120. I am thinking I have no need for 2 enlargers.
Being that most, not all of this stuff is pretty cheap anymore, what is the best enlarger out there? I have beseler hd and rodenstock lenses.

I am thinking of replacing the 23c with saunders, but they are still pricey. I wonder if it is worth thinking about it.

 

[Neal]

You just want a new enlarger! ;-)

Neal Wydra

 

[Rick A]

So, you already have what you seek, or are you looking for permission to buy new?

 

[gzinsel]

what is your name?
what is your quest?
what is your favorite color?

The holy grail (of enlargers, film, developers, etc) does not exist. It is a myth. It appears you have have everything you need.

 

[markd514]

Ahhh, the answer has been there all the time grasshopper. I knew it. I certainly don't want a new one.....ripoff prices. I was just thinking that my beselers would be MUCH nicer if they had a precision feel to them and a fine focus control. I actually use the fine up down adjustment on the motor for the 45 as fine focus. I never had a saunders, and they look like more precision units.

 

[jbmia]

I just moved from a Beseler 45 MX II with a 45 Color Computer head to a Durst 138s. Two completely different machines.. Right now, I'm missing the diffusion light source on the 45, but I will say that focus on the Durst is much much more reliable. Focusing larger, cropped 6x6 and 4x5, on the 45, I'd have to check and re-adjust focus if I so much as touched the enlarger (particularly with 4x5), whereas with the 138s, I've been able to set focus, remove the negative carrier and check for dust, reinsert it, and then recheck focus and it's still tack sharp. Much easier to focus than the Beseler 45. Two completely different machines intended for different audiences, but nevertheless if you're looking for that precision feel, you might keep an eye out on your local craigslist for one of these higher end Durst's (e.g., Laborator 1200 (4x5), 138s (5x7)) or Devere's. I've not used a Devere, but from what I understand they're of the same caliber as Durst or maybe even better. Best of luck to you.

 

[Rick A]

Equipment is no better than the operator using it. Some of the most incredible objects and photos ever made were done using rudimentary tools/cameras. Fine tune yourself before seeking something that still won't get you where you want to go.

 

[fotch]

My Beseler 45 stays in focus if I remove & reinsert the negative carrier.

 

[Paul Howell]

Your Bessler 45 is a great enlarger, other than wanting 2 enlargers for connivance such as one set up for 35mm and the other for MF or LF I don't see a need to buying another. Bessler made a number of heads including a cold light, condenser and point source, maybe shop around for a different head?

 

[MartinP]

Presumably the OP is in the USA, going by the types of machine he quotes. As a former professional black-and-white printer, I would say that the Beseler and Omega machines I have seen (and I've no idea now what models they were) would not have survived reliability-wise in a hard-working darkroom. Clearly there must have been some solid, professional machines made in the US so I suppose that I simply didn't meet one, but anything made of bent sheet-metal or lacking masking in it's standard neg-carrier, or not having zero-able and lockable precision alignment mechanisms, is not the professional model but one for a less critical market.

Durst also made cheap(-ish) amateur enlargers of course, so don't go just by the name. The Laborator models (eg.138s) are built like industrial milling machines and would fit the bill for someone wanting to know that no further improvement in equipment was needed, or even possible. Problems appear when you need additional condensers or other parts as these machines are no longer manufactured.

Most likely there are very few DeVere machines that got across the Atlantic, but that would be another option. I used a 504 and 507 during my professional time and have a 203 at home now, but I expect there are a lot more of those on the European side of the ocean than that side!

The 'good' part of the current situation is that these things are now selling for a tenth of their original price, or even less, while the 'bad' part is finding one complete with all the required bits and pieces. Also remember that possible weights are well over a hundred pounds for a chassis and you might need a very high ceiling to use the full capabilities of whatever you end up with.

 

[David Brown]

I just moved from a Beseler 45 MX II with a 45 Color Computer head to a Durst 138s. Two completely different machines..
... focus on the Durst is much much more reliable.
... on the (Beseler) 45, I'd have to check and re-adjust focus if I so much as touched the enlarger
... whereas with the 138s, I've been able to set focus, remove the negative carrier and check for dust, reinsert it, and then recheck focus and it's still tack sharp.

I am able to do this with my Beselers. Perhaps yours just needed maintenance ...

 

[jbmia]

The OP mentioned precision... Not too focus too much on my example, I was just trying to illustrate that in my personal experience I've found a difference in precision between the two enlargers I compared above. The Beseler 45 is a great machine with parts and accessories widely available. The 138s, not so much. But, despite that, I've found I enjoy the 138s more and for the reason being that I've found it to a more solid enlarger that the 45. It's a tactile thing... And of course it doesn't make me a better printer... I certainly would not go out and spend some of the really high prices you sometimes see for machines like these, but if you keep an eye and find a good deal locally, why not try something else out?

I recently picked up a durst ac-800 for $150, an automated wizard of a color enlarger. Fascinating piece of gear... And for the price of a cheap lens.... Been having some fun printing in color with it. So I say, if the price is right, why not? Paid a little more for the 138s, but not much. Hunt locally within reasonable driving distance. If you see a machine that's been for sale for awhile, price can be pretty flexible.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Let me know when you throw the 4x5 Beseler in the trash so I can come by and dig it out of the dumpster.

 

[eddie]

I used a Beseler 4x5 for over 20 years, without having any focus shift problems. If I hadn't been given an LPL (with the Heiland Splitgrade), I'd still be using it without reservation.

 

[jbmia]

Haha, but your using the LPL today!! ;-).

The 45 MX II is for sale along with the Color computer head, 4x5 & 35mm chambers, condenser head, the adjus-table stand, a nega flat and a few other pieces.

As a side note, I try and sell in complete kits locally at roughly the same prices I got in order to keep machines alive and encourage analog experimentation, use, and adoption

 

[DREW WILEY]

The Durst 138 is in a league by itself. The problem, however, is that everything is based on the actual condition of these. They were abundant, built for torture, and unfortunately were sometimes tortured. But with patience clean ones can be found. There were also many
options for light sources, and a degree of evolution within the series. Price? From zero to the moon, depending on your luck, or lack of luck.
The were very expensive new, and still are if you care to ship an unbroken crate from Italy.

 

[markd514]

I like the look of the saunders lpl..they fetch almost 2000 dollars around these parts...unbelievable.

 

[markd514]

Anyone know anything about this durst ac901? It is available near me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Durst-AC-90...557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f7b80bdd

 

[MartinP]

Very old, very over-priced and "dismantled" - so you have no way of knowing if it's complete. It also doesn't go over 6x9cm nor have a very tall column (and hence max baseboard enlargement size).

For that price you should be able to find a clean and complete Durst 138 floor-mount machine, over here at least.

 

[eddie]

I don't understand your reasoning for a new enlarger. You have two perfectly serviceable ones. You'd be better off spending money on film, paper, and chemicals. If you're looking to improve your printmaking skills, that will get you further than a new enlarger ever could.

 

[MattKing]

Here, I've done your shopping for you. On sale, and in Canadian Dollars too: http://store.khbphotografix.com/Sau...arger-with-Dichroic-Colour-Module-Refurb.html

KHB's site is very useful - see the New and Used Equipment link for hours of researching fun: http://www.khbphotografix.com/

Beseler 45s and Omega D series enlargers are capable of excellent results. My Omega D6 remains in focus when I change negatives, and it is sitting on a cart (for use in a temporary darkroom setup).

If I was starting anew, I would look at the LPL enlargers as well as the Beseler and Omega models. I like the Durst equipment, and have friends who have two of their top line models, but if they hadn't come with all the necessary accessories, they would have been very challenging to fully outfit.

Your current setup is capable of excellent results. And with two enlargers, it is very flexible. I would just make sure that they were serviced, aligned, and appropriately braced.

 

[markd514]

I don't understand your reasoning for a new enlarger. You have two perfectly serviceable ones. You'd be better off spending money on film, paper, and chemicals. If you're looking to improve your printmaking skills, that will get you further than a new enlarger ever could.

You are absolutely right! I was just throwing it out there to see what people thought. I like the negatrans accessory for the 23c which I don't see on the others. That's just one example.

 

[jbmia]

We're all just having fun right? What's the harm in having a look around... Why not trade up if the right opportunity comes along?

I'll add a few random data points, some pluses, some minuses, some neutral..
- They're all "very old" aren't they?
- Item is local (+)
- Dis-mantled = (packed & ready to go).... (+)
- But see if you can try before you buy if it's not a far drive. Have the guy set it up.. it's not that big a deal.
- Item has 14 day return & free shipping, burden of proof item works is on the seller. (+)
- If you print color and/or typically never exceed 6x9, then this one might be a good option. (color head for a 138 is obscenely expensive and rare)
- $999 is a really high price, he may take substantially less (or not , it could go in a minute. but it may sit for weeks/months). The longer it sits...
- Per above.. enlargers are expensive to ship.. works to your advantage (if it's still there in a month).. negotiation leverage.
- That unit doesn't look too dissimilar to the AC-800 in that it shares many of the same parts and provides for normal, slope, light neg, and dark neg calibration for color... So, it appears, like the AC-800, to be geared toward automating color printing. Up side, once calibrated (in an ideal world), you get a work print right out of the gate... Same for B&W. Down side, you need a good test negative.. Even if the unit comes with them (check and see) then they'll likely be for 25 year old versions of Kodak (e.g., VPS III) & Fuji emulsions, so to work best you'll need to create your own test negative to calibrate those features. (Ignore the calibration challenge if you're only interested in B&W, still applies, you just need a .7 + fb+f neg)
- that neg carrier, the lens boards, and that system is really a pleasure to use... very well engineered. Looks like he's got the masks that go with it... double check for 35, 645, 6x6, 6x9..
- it's electronic.. from a workflow perspective, that control panel is awesome to use (once you understand how it works) (+)
- it's electronic.. (it could die any moment and you'd be selling it for parts)... (= negotation leverage) (-)
- I can't be sure, but it looks like it's designed to use with that head alone.
- Older, more mechanical enlargers have less to break on them and tend to provide more of a "platform", allowing for switching heads, customization and mods.. (-)
- The Durst's are generally well engineered enlargers.
- Again, at the right price, many of these negatives (no pun intended) go away. I think that's key. (if he was selling it for $200 or $300 I'd be on my way to the ATM machine)

Personally, I'd keep an eye on it and if it's still around in a few weeks, make a reasonable offer "if it works for you otherwise". Either way, I'd keep an eye out on Craigslist... Every now and again something good comes along, you just have to wait and be there at the right time. But, in the meantime, like many have said, just go use your current gear.. Fight the GAS !!

 

[Luis-F-S]

deleted, duplicate

 

[Luis-F-S]

If I were to buy a new/used enlarger for 35 mm to 4x5, to me the no brainer is an LPL 4500 or one of it's flavors. It's still made, you can get parts reasonably and they go used for about 5-10 ç on the dollar from new on both the Bay & the List. If you want a "project" and a beautifully made enlarger, get on of the professional Durst. Within those format limits, the LPL will do everything the Durst will do and for the smaller formats, the LPL is much more "fun" to use than the Durst. I have 1 5x7 Durst, 2 4x5's LPL's and a Valloy II, and those are my recommendations. L