Best B&W Film Reversal Kit: Foma, Adox Scala, or Bellini

[DeletedAcct1]

It's getting quite hard in EU countries to do BW reversal, except with the official kits. The problem is the bleach. Sulfuric acid is banned in concentrations more than 10% for consumers, it is considered a precursor for explosives, Diluted H2SO4 is not sold anywhere. Potassium dichromate is totally banned, and the alternative, potassium permanganate is listed as 2nd schedule narcotics precursor, and is subject to controls. Yes, there are kits available, but as always, they are very small and expensive. For instance, one Foma kit has the capacity of developing 8 rolls of 135-36 film. Not bad, but for cinema film it is a joke. It is one 30, roll of 16 mm film, and costs about 50€,

I may suggest you to buy the Foma kit directly from Foma Bohemia, it will cost way below 50€.

 

[simplejoy]

Thanks Miha.
Just an addition from my side, as I have also tested projection lenses:
From my results I can put the Leica Super-Colorplan and the Zeiss P-Sonnar on a higher ranking compared to the results in the test you have linked.
And my assessment is confirmed by several other tests done and published in Germany (which has been the country in which slide projection has been most popular).
Based on my and these other published tests I can give the following recommendations for different projector brands:

Braun Paximat Multimag series:
Best lenses: Braun Ultralit PL 2.4/90 and Braun Ultralit 2.8/85 MC-B (with aperture).

Rollei Rolleivision twin series (35mm):
Best lens: Rollei AV-Apogon 2.4/90.

Rollei Rolleivision 66 medium format projectors:
Best lenses: Schneider AV-Xenotar 2.8/150 and Rollei AV-Apogon 2.8/120.

Best regards,
Henning

Hope you don't mind if I ask you a couple of tangentially related question, given that you've tested all these lenses:

1.) From my own observations I would say that the AV-Apogon 90 mm f/2.4 HFT is a 4 elements in 4 groups (Sonnar or Ernostar variant) optical design. Can you confirm that? Do you know if there are any offical drawings of this design?
2.) It's said to have been made by Schneider Kreuznach and that it is identical to the AV-Xenotar 90 mm f/2.4, apart from the coating and perhaps some light corrections (the latter is unconfirmed).
3.) There's also an AV-Xenotar 90 mm f/2.4-8 HFT (with variable aperture) which I own. I suspect that it is completely identical in terms of optics, but it has a metal barrel. Do you know if a Rollei version of that one exists as well?
4.) The Braun Ultralit PL 90 mm f/2.4 seem quite similar (though not identical) in terms of construction as well. It is a confirmed 4/4 design. I wonder who made it... because as far as I know Ultralit lenses were made by a couple of different manufacturers. Could it have been made by ISCO? Or was it made by Staeble, Docter? Or did Braun have their own lens manufacturing capabilities? (I seem to recall there were two German Braun companies involved in the photography sphere, so I'm always confused).
5.) Is the Kindermann MC-B (made by Doctar) also a 4 elements in 4 groups design? And was it sold with any other name/labeling as well?

Sorry for the vast number of questions all at once... I really hope you can help me with some of these. Thanks a lot!

 

[runswithsizzers]

Because I am very interested in the answer to the question in the title of this thread, I just read through all 177 posts a second time to see if there was any consensus.
:-(

The Foma kit and the Adox Scala kit, each got about 4 or 5 recommendations. But most of those recommendations were dependent on using Foma R100 film with the Foma kit and using Adox Scala 50 (or 160 if you have some) with the Adox kit. Sometimes the recommendations were ambiguous, so it was hard to tally the results. There was one recommendation for "All of the Above," and one for "None of the Above" -- both by the same person. ;-)

I did not see any recommendations for the Bellini kit.

And there were 5 or 6 recommendations for "Other" -- that is, the Ilford method, or some variation of a diy process not from a kit. (I call this the Luke 11:11 reply, "What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent?")

Fortunately, the OP was able to make a decision, and was satisfied with the result (see posts #147-161).

 

[destroya]

for "other", I assume people are using what I use, use a home mixed kit from raw chems. A lot of people dont like to mix their own chems because they are worried about the raw ingredients being toxic. by mixing it myself, I have an always available solution, just have to mix up the one time use amounts for the batch I developing. after using a few of the kits and mixing my own, I settled on a pot dichromate bleach. I take a lot of care when mixing. the results are better than any other solution I tried.

john

 

[runswithsizzers]

When I get a minute, I'd like to start a new thread:
"DIY black & white reversal: What formula do you use, and where do you get your chemicals?"
Please mention your location up front, because availibilty and sources are going to vary by country.

If someone else wants start such a thread, that would be great, but right now, I've got to get back to work doing boring, non-photography stuff.

 

[Henning Serger]

Hope you don't mind if I ask you a couple of tangentially related question, given that you've tested all these lenses:

1.) From my own observations I would say that the AV-Apogon 90 mm f/2.4 HFT is a 4 elements in 4 groups (Sonnar or Ernostar variant) optical design. Can you confirm that? Do you know if there are any offical drawings of this design?
2.) It's said to have been made by Schneider Kreuznach and that it is identical to the AV-Xenotar 90 mm f/2.4, apart from the coating and perhaps some light corrections (the latter is unconfirmed).

I don't have any drawings of the lens design of this lens. Due to my Rollei literature Schneider-Kreuznach made indeed the AV-Xenotar 2.4/90. It is very likely that the AV-Apogon is (almost) identical. Anyway, it is an excellent lens.

3.) There's also an AV-Xenotar 90 mm f/2.4-8 HFT (with variable aperture) which I own. I suspect that it is completely identical in terms of optics, but it has a metal barrel. Do you know if a Rollei version of that one exists as well?

AFAIK that is the only existing version. Never seen or heard of another one.

4.) The Braun Ultralit PL 90 mm f/2.4 seem quite similar (though not identical) in terms of construction as well. It is a confirmed 4/4 design. I wonder who made it... because as far as I know Ultralit lenses were made by a couple of different manufacturers. Could it have been made by ISCO? Or was it made by Staeble, Docter?

German lens manufacturers ISCO or Docter-Optics are the most likely sources. They were very active in that market.

Or did Braun have their own lens manufacturing capabilities?

No, AFAIK they had not, and had lens manufacturers with lots of experience in projection lens manufacturing like ISCO or Docter-Optics as suppliers.

5.) Is the Kindermann MC-B (made by Doctar) also a 4 elements in 4 groups design? And was it sold with any other name/labeling as well?

Yes, it is a 4-element design. I have this lens for my Kindermann Silent 2500, and it is really excellent. AFAIK it was only sold with Kindermann, I have never seen it in connection with any other projection manufacturer.

Sorry for the vast number of questions all at once... I really hope you can help me with some of these. Thanks a lot!

No problem at all.
I hope my answers are helpful for you.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[simplejoy]

I don't have any drawings of the lens design of this lens. Due to my Rollei literature Schneider-Kreuznach made indeed the AV-Xenotar 2.4/90. It is very likely that the AV-Apogon is (almost) identical. Anyway, it is an excellent lens.



AFAIK that is the only existing version. Never seen or heard of another one.



German lens manufacturers ISCO or Docter-Optics are the most likely sources. They were very active in that market.



No, AFAIK they had not, and had lens manufacturers with lots of experience in projection lens manufacturing like ISCO or Docter-Optics as suppliers.



Yes, it is a 4-element design. I have this lens for my Kindermann Silent 2500, and it is really excellent. AFAIK it was only sold with Kindermann, I have never seen it in connection with any other projection manufacturer.



No problem at all.
I hope my answers are helpful for you.

Best regards,
Henning

Thank you so much for all the answers - that's a lot of help!

I've done quite a bit of research on ISCO during the last year, because I've written an article about their Kiptar (cine projection) lens series and similar ones. It certainly looks like slide projection was an important part of their portfolio as well (Projar, S-Proiar, Cinelux-AV, Ultra-AV & the PC variants + various lenses with Rollei & Meridian labels...) but unfortuntely they didn't give serial numbers to these.

I've been very surpised by the quality of the Ultralit PL 90 mm f/2.4. The Ultralit B-MC 85 mm f/2.8 however is not identical in terms of design, but a three element lens instead (there's even a drawing from that). I think whoever made it (as you've said likely ISCO or Docter-Optics) also made the reflecta Agomar 90 mm f/2.8. They share some parts in the aperture mechanism which look completely identical, so I would be surprised if it's not by the same manufacturer. I have no idea if the possible manufacturers for reflecta labeled lenses is any different.... Braun lenses were also made by Staeble and Enna, but I'm not sure about the timeline and if any of those could have worked out with the Ultralit PL series at all.