Best Acquirable Portraiture Lens for Graflex Super D

[njrfoto]

Hi all,

I am looking for a fast, sharp portraiture lens for my recent Graflex Super D 4x5 acquisition...

I will mostly be making 4x5 tintype close-ups of my sitters in studio (lighting) conditions. But will also be using it on location out 'in the field' for more full body work... I want to have full control over DOF - so the faster the lens the better!

A newer lens would be best, I would rather not have any 'hot' radioactive lenses around my children, regardless of the lack of trouble coming from them...
But if the best lens available is a radioactive elemented lens then so be it - i will have to be extra careful where I put it

Cheers all!

Nathan

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Some of the criteria you're asking for are verging on mutually exclusive - nobody has made lenses faster than f4 (or really even f5.6) for large format in recent years. And fast and sharp (especially at wide open) rarely go together. I'd suggest looking for a Bausch & Lomb Tessar if you're budget conscious - there are tons of them in barrel out there for generally pretty cheap prices. If you're not super price-conscious, look for a Voigtlander Heliar. If price is no object, look for a Cooke Portrait. You can find these lenses in f4.5 or maybe even f3.5 maximum apertures. In reality, those apertures will yield you plenty shallow depth-of-field.

 

[njrfoto]

ahh ok - fair enough, if you don't ask you wont know i guess
Love the look of those Cooke lenses - maybe one day...

I want to try and find out what lens(es) Victoria Hill used on her Graflex for this shoot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5F13q2Z39M

the series can be seen here (she used a Graflex Super D and a Sinar for the series): Dead Link Removed
& here: https://fstoppers.com/bts/17-extrao...tintype-portraits-and-bts-victoria-will-67181 & here: http://camerarumors.info/tintype-po...-the-sundance-film-festival-by-victoria-will/

I would love to use the lens similar to what she used to get that rich detail and lovely DOF... Any ideas as to what she used???

What is this lens?

 

[jimgalli]

ahh ok - fair enough, if you don't ask you wont know i guess
Love the look of those Cooke lenses - maybe one day...

I want to try and find out what lens(es) Victoria Hill used on her Graflex for this shoot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5F13q2Z39M

the series can be seen here (she used a Graflex Super D and a Sinar for the series): Dead Link Removed
& here: https://fstoppers.com/bts/17-extrao...tintype-portraits-and-bts-victoria-will-67181 & here: http://camerarumors.info/tintype-po...-the-sundance-film-festival-by-victoria-will/

I would love to use the lens similar to what she used to get that rich detail and lovely DOF... Any ideas as to what she used???

What is this lens?

That looks to be an 8" Darlot projection petzval.

 

[EdSawyer]

The Pentac 8" f/2.9 is probably your best and easiest option. Jo Lommen has a page about it:

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/Graflex Super D/index.html

I am not sure if he is still making the lens boards or not, but I do have one and a Pentac, though I havent' fitted it to my SuperD yet. The Ektar 190 is a great lens, you can definitely get shallow enough DOF with just that lens to emulate the linked tintypes you like.

that said, her tintypes are pretty much crap. The only real redeeming value is the notoriety/fame of the subjects. Her tintype quality leaves a lot to be desired, many technical flaws in their execution, there's tons of people on this site and LFPF that can do far better and would be much more worth emulating for their methods and techniques. Learn from someone that actually knows what they are doing.

whatever lens she was using seems like some roachy old petzval or something similar - nothing special, don't worry about it. It's not what is going to define or be the limiting factor in doing work like this. Start with the Ektar, move on to the Pentac if you need more speed.

 

[jimgalli]

Going to strongly dis-agree with Ed. Something I've never done. But to imitate the look that Victoria Will is getting you would have to embrace wet plate photography and yes, you will have to find a fast petzval lens somewhere. They have a unique signature of incredible sharpness in center and fast fall off to beautiful out of focus zone. Nothing about what she was doing is cheap, but neither is it impossible to accomplish. Lots of folks doing fine wet plate. I dabbled and didn't commit.

 

[MattKing]

Those Victoria Will tintypes look to me like they were done with a lens of shorter focal length than what I would normally choose. A lot of large noses and small ears on people who wouldn't normally be shot that way.

It suits Slash though.

 

[removed account4]

Hi all,

I am looking for a fast, sharp portraiture lens for my recent Graflex Super D 4x5 acquisition...

I will mostly be making 4x5 tintype close-ups of my sitters in studio (lighting) conditions. But will also be using it on location out 'in the field' for more full body work... I want to have full control over DOF - so the faster the lens the better!

A newer lens would be best, I would rather not have any 'hot' radioactive lenses around my children, regardless of the lack of trouble coming from them...
But if the best lens available is a radioactive elemented lens then so be it - i will have to be extra careful where I put it

Cheers all!

Nathan

there are a few people doing WP work with studio lights
they are very bright. if you poke around illumequest 's posts
and uploads he mentions what sorts of bright lights he uses
he's done "stop action photography" using wet plate ...
good luck !

 

[njrfoto]

Going to strongly dis-agree with Ed. Something I've never done. But to imitate the look that Victoria Will is getting you would have to embrace wet plate photography and yes, you will have to find a fast petzval lens somewhere. They have a unique signature of incredible sharpness in center and fast fall off to beautiful out of focus zone. Nothing about what she was doing is cheap, but neither is it impossible to accomplish. Lots of folks doing fine wet plate. I dabbled and didn't commit.

I too have seen many tintype portraiture work, but something about the 'rough and ready' aesthetics and appearance she (and her team) clearly worked hard on caught my attention (it probably helped that her subjects were all current A listers).

Thank you guy for the recommendation about the lens being a Petzval lens! After looking into them they sound wonderful, yet have no idea where I could find one... Is there anywhere online that is a definative source of information about the Petzval lens ranges?
I will of course be starting with my Ektar, but whilst I have some RARE funds, does anybody know of a reputable/trustworthy place I could pick one up?

illumequest has done action tintypes? WOW! I have worked for years as a professional freelance skateboard photographer until recently so that sounds right up my street does anyone have a link to him/his work?

 

[Arklatexian]

Best Acquirable Portraiture Lens for Grafles Super D

Hi all,

I am looking for a fast, sharp portraiture lens for my recent Graflex Super D 4x5 acquisition...

I will mostly be making 4x5 tintype close-ups of my sitters in studio (lighting) conditions. But will also be using it on location out 'in the field' for more full body work... I want to have full control over DOF - so the faster the lens the better!

A newer lens would be best, I would rather not have any 'hot' radioactive lenses around my children, regardless of the lack of trouble coming from them...
But if the best lens available is a radioactive elemented lens then so be it - i will have to be extra careful where I put it

Cheers all!






Do you ever travel by air? If you do and your plane flies at or about 20 to 30 thousand feet altitude, you will probably get a bigger shot of radioactivity sitting quietly in your seat on the airplane that that poor old lens would put out in (I'll bet) 1000 years clipped to the front of your Super D. Of course, I am no expert but then I probably would be surprised if anyone reading your post is. The Super D is a new enough camera for the manufacturer not to put a lens on it that was dangerous to its users. I always figure that my family and I are in far more danger riding in our family car than from radioactivity.................Regards!

 

[Ian Grant]

That looks to be an 8" Darlot projection petzval.

I've an un-named 10" R-R that looks the same, the results don't quite look like a Petzval and it seems rather short/small as well.

The OP could look at MWClassic's website (London based) each week, new items get listed every Friday evening and as long as you're not after named collectible lenses there can be some good bargains. I don't know what part of the UK the OP's in but if close enough he's welcome to come and try some lenses Petzval and RR.

Ian

 

[njrfoto]

Thank you for the great feedback guys - after reading about the Darlot petzval lens and their characteristics it sounds just like what I'm after...

Whilst I have some funds for new kit, I would be looking to acquire one in the near future. Finding one - and a fast-ish one at that - isnt looking so good so far...

I have found a couple on ebay that I wonder if they could be modified to work with LF?

8 inch - approx f4 lens...:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautiful-B...491229?hash=item1ea9e6c19d:g:tzsAAOSwUdlWeGwD

Larger 13 inch but no idea on aperture...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Dar...580327?hash=item1c5f471d27:g:LJYAAOSw-vlVpBkM

 

[Ian Grant]

Get yourself out to some flea markets, and camera fairs. these lenses turn up every so often, I have 2 or 3 bought for around £20 ($30) or less. Like this one

Despite what it looked like when I picked it up it's actually optical in extremely good condition after a clean and evicting the spider

Remember that buying from the US you're likely to get caught for VAT etc and that can add around 30% to the final cost. They are all adaptable for LF provided they have the coverage, 8" is roughly the minimum FL you'd need. You also need to make sure it'll fit a lens board mine only just does on my pee-Anniversary Speed Graphic, it's approx 9" FL.

Ian

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Ian- the Super D has a bigger lens board than the Graphics do.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ian- the Super D has a bigger lens board than the Graphics do.

According to the source I have the Super D lens board is 3.75"x3.75", my pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic's lens boards are 4"x4".

Ian

 

[njrfoto]

Get yourself out to some flea markets, and camera fairs. these lenses turn up every so often, I have 2 or 3 bought for around £20 ($30) or less. Like this one

Despite what it looked like when I picked it up it's actually optical in extremely good condition after a clean and evicting the spider

Remember that buying from the US you're likely to get caught for VAT etc and that can add around 30% to the final cost. They are all adaptable for LF provided they have the coverage, 8" is roughly the minimum FL you'd need. You also need to make sure it'll fit a lens board mine only just does on my pee-Anniversary Speed Graphic, it's approx 9" FL.

Ian

Thats awesome you found that at a boot-sale! Unfortunately I live in the countryside in the south of England and no - seriously NONE - professional photography gear ever shows its head. Maybe closer to cities they would, but that would be a project in it self if i were to fully rely on that as a source to find the 'perfect lens'...

I dont mind purchasing kit on ebay US - more range of what you are looking for and often ends up being cheaper than if i were getting it in the UK anyway. So im happy getting it from wherever as long as it fits the bill, so to speak

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

According to the source I have the Super D lens board is 3.75"x3.75", my pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic's lens boards are 4"x4".

Ian

Hmm. I'm probably mis-remembering then - probably from having seen too many of the Super D's modified to take the Aero-Ektar.

 

[njrfoto]

So how come one figure out the aperture of this lens: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-D...Sw-vlVpBkM&clk_rvr_id=967021512783&rmvSB=true

Length: 4 1/8 "
Diameter (at front): 2 3/8"
Focal Length: 13" (approximately)
Weight: 14 oz.

The seller doesnt know the aperture but the lens looks very nice... Any thoughts as to how to figure it out with out having the lens in hand? is there a resource online which may have any documents of similar lenses listed?

 

[Ian Grant]

Be aware that lens has no slot for Waterhouse stops it's a projection lens so can only be used at full aperture, for that reason alone it's quite over-priced. In addition you only have 12" of bellows extension I think so a 13" lens is too long and may not be practical for portraits.

The aperture is the focal length divided by the diameter of the entrance pupil, so roughly f5.6


Ian

 

[shutterfinger]

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_8.html
gives some useful information but does not tell the bellows draw of the various models.

 

[Fixcinater]

Would a B&L Tessar 210/4.5 be a reasonably good stand in for the projection lens and possibly be easier to find at a reasonable price?

 

[Ian Grant]

Would a B&L Tessar 210/4.5 be a reasonably good stand in for the projection lens and possibly be easier to find at a reasonable price?

The OPs camera already has a 190mm f4.5 Ektar which is a Tessar design and a 210mm is rather close in FL. A 250mm Tessar might be an option,

In 210 though the Rodenstock Geronar f6.8 which is a modern Cooke Triplet would be a nice Portrait lens at its wider apertures.

Ian

 

[njrfoto]

Be aware that lens has no slot for Waterhouse stops it's a projection lens so can only be used at full aperture, for that reason alone it's quite over-priced. In addition you only have 12" of bellows extension I think so a 13" lens is too long and may not be practical for portraits.

The aperture is the focal length divided by the diameter of the entrance pupil, so roughly f5.6


Ian

Thank you for that info Ian. That aperture formula is massively helpful! A lens with waterhouse stops, and the associating slot, could be useful... I will be using most of the portraiture lenses I get for the Graflex at a fairly wide open aperture, so Im not sure if a projection lens with slots and stops is a deal breaker for me... It all depends on whats on the market, what I can find and what I can afford... So any suggestions or leads anyone can give for a fast Darlot Perzval that would be amazing!

 

[njrfoto]

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_8.html
gives some useful information but does not tell the bellows draw of the various models.

Thank you for this - useful guide indeed

 

[mdarnton]

For my longer Super D lenses, I always find the location of the lens when at infinity, and build a box bridging the distance between the back of the lens and the lens board. That way I don't lose close-up range to the bellows draw just to get the lens out to infinity. For instance, the 15" Tele Raptar needs extension to flush with the front of the lens box. A 250mm needs a few mm more extension than that. You can figure this out by collapsing the bellows all the way, then holding the lens up in front of the camera by hand to focus on infinity, and noting how much extension is needed to bridge that distance.

I buy 3mm birch plywood from Dick Blick / The Art Store, and glue it together with superglue (crude, but fast and easy if the joints are good) then put adhesive felt on the inside and wrap the outside with cloth book binding tape.

On the Super D, longer lenses will be vignetted by the bottom of the mirror box which sticks up to meet the bottom of the mirror. 300mm is about your limit on this, I think.

For portraits, I'm getting good use out of old enlarger lenses. For instance, I picked up both 250mm and 300mm f/4.5 coated tessar-type 1950s American enlarger lenses for under $50 each--no one will use them for enlarging, and they don't think about shooting large format with them, which works fine.