Bessa R4A with 50mm 1,1 ?

[JPS Black]

Hi Analog Photographers!
My Dream team for street photography would be a bessa R(4A) and a 21mm f4
+ 50mm f1,1. BUT: I wanted to pick the R4A for the 21mm Rangefinder.
the question is: how about the focusing with the 50mm in this rangefinder, and with an external rangefinder, is focusing the same (or possible)...?

 

[furcafe]

Focusing w/that combo is possible, but will be difficult if you're going to be shooting the Nokton @ f/1.1-f/1.4. I have successfully focused my Noctilux @ f/1 on a Konica Hexar RF, which has 0.6x magnification VF, & a Leica M6 TTL w/0.58x VF, but it wasn't easy. Focusing a 50/1.1 on a super low-mag VF like the R4 series would be even more difficult.

Ideally, if you have the money, you would get a higher mag body for the 50/1.1, like an M3.

 

[ntenny]

You can scale focus with the 21mm, so if those are going to be your primary lenses, I'd pick the body to match the 50mm lens rather than the 21mm. If you stayed with a CV body, that would probably mean an R3A (with an external VF for the 21mm).

-NT

 

[Mark Fisher]

You can scale focus with the 21mm, so if those are going to be your primary lenses, I'd pick the body to match the 50mm lens rather than the 21mm. If you stayed with a CV body, that would probably mean an R3A (with an external VF for the 21mm).

-NT

That makes way more sense to me....or just save up the pennies and get another body!

 

[jpberger]

I hate to be a curmudgeon, but do you have a specific need for f 1.1, that only f1.1 will satisfy? It's a big heavy and expensive piece of glass (expensive by voigtlander standards anyway) Even if you get a body with a long rangefinder base it you'll still have wicked focus shift at near focus if you stop down which makes it less usefull in regular shooting.(i'm guessing) I'm just saying because f1.4 or thereabouts will cover an awful lot of available darkness shooting without even resorting to super fast film. For my money I'd far rather settle for a more modest normal lens like the 40f1.4 or 50/f1.5 and get either a nicer body like a ZI or used M or get a r3 body to match the r3m and still have money in my pocket. YMMV of course

 

[JPS Black]

hmmm, thank you for your replys. I'm a bit confused now.
I shot a few films inside (bad light) with a 50mm 1,4 and a 1,8 with another camera, with film speed 400... the pictures were bad.(but also bad developed one time)
so I thought a 1,1 would be practical and also creative.
Well I will rethink the nokton and also which body suits me best...

 

[erikg]

Well, it's your money, but if the shots were bad at f 1.4 i don't think they would be good at 1.1. You could get the R4 and 21 and then get a second body and an inexpensive 50 1.5. You can be creative with that too. Depends really on what you want to do the majority of your shooting with. If the 21? then the R4 is pretty awesome.

 

[Chris Nielsen]

hmmm, thank you for your replys. I'm a bit confused now.
I shot a few films inside (bad light) with a 50mm 1,4 and a 1,8 with another camera, with film speed 400... the pictures were bad.(but also bad developed one time)
so I thought a 1,1 would be practical and also creative.
Well I will rethink the nokton and also which body suits me best...

What's wrong with using faster film? Tri-X or HP5 @ 800 is hardly even a push but doubles your shutter speed. Or if you shoot colour, Portra 800 or Pro800 are lovely and also a stop faster than your 400 you were using

 

[jpberger]

To be fair I think equipment purchases are rarely if ever completely rational (if if were rational I would put all the money I spend on camera gear and film on berkshire hathaway stock or something) If a particular piece of kit floats your boat and you can afford it than go for it. One thing about spending on lenses is that they retain almost all of their value, and some times go up in price over time, so you are less likely to lose out like you do with digital gear or camera bodies (the nokton 1:1.1 is the sort of thing that could become a collector item and go up in value over me) But from a user standpoint, super speed lenses are hard to use effectively, and for general photography are almost always inferior to slower ones. I'm always awed and humbled by what the great shooters of the kodachrome era were able to do with asa 10-25 film and f/2 lenses. Learning how to use a strobe effectively is very valuable too, and a lot of natural light purists (including me!) are often such because their flash handling skills are not up to snuff.

Effective low light shooting requires lots of practice no matter what you are shooting because it's harder to get critical focus, and subject contrast is high which means you have to learn how to use exposure compensation and meter effectively. Having a faster shutter helps deal with camera shake and motion blur but it's only part of the story.

 

[KenR]

I've used the R4A with a 50mm lens and can't get things to focus sharply at f4 or below. The effective rangefinder length is probably too short for these lenses (in my hands at least.) The camera is amazing with the wider focal length lenses - for me it is meant for a 28mm lens. That said, I have gotten great results with 50mm lenses in daylight conditions where the depth of field is more forgiving. IMHO if you're intent is to use the Nokton wide open, you'd be better off with the R3x.

 

[elekm]

I also agree with going with a faster film. I've shot a fair amount of TMax 3200, and I've been very pleased with the results.

I also concur with the others regarding the ability of the R4A's rangefinder to effectively focus an f/1.1 50mm lens. This lens would be much better on a Zeiss Ikon or Leica M.

I would first try faster film. Some of my fun work has been shot with a Contax IIa, f/1.5 50mm Sonnar and TMax 3200. Nice combination.

 

[JPS Black]

thank you all for your useful answers.
I will try faster film in future, with normal lenses and then I have to learn how to use that combo properly.
my idea about buying a rangefinder with the 50mm & 21mm is now obsolete, because my father (again) showed me some Nikon lenses I didnt knew of.
I will stay in morocco for 2 months and I can use his nikon equipment there, which is superior to anything I got.
I hope you excuse me my sluggish english.

thanks

 

[Vincenzo Maielli]

The ultra fast standard or medium tele lenses (as the VC Nokton 50/1.1, Leica Noctilux 50 1 or 0.95, Leica Summilux 75/1.4) work very well with the high rangefinder effective base lenght. In my opinion, are intended for the Leica M or Zeiss Ikon ZM cameras, not for the Bessas, because the Bessas have a short effective rangefinder base lenght. The only VC Bessa with high rangefinder effective base lenght is the Bessa T: see www.cameraquest.com for more info about the Bessa T.
Ciao.
Vincenzo

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Faster film is partly a solution and generally my preferred option, but when it is really dingy you need faster film AND faster lenses.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

FWIW I have an R3A and an R4A. I mainly use the Nokton 40/1.4 on the R3A with its full frame viewfinder but I also have accessory viewfinders for the other lenses which are 75mm, 35mm, 25mm and 15mm. The R4A has framelines for the 35mm and 25mm lenses (plus others). I can therefore use any of the lenses I have on either of the camera bodies and so can go out with two different B&W films or one B&W and one colour, as I please. It's very versatile setup, I find. Having said that, the lenses I use least are the 75mm and the 15mm. For street and travel the 25mm has proven a very good choice for tight quarters but the 35mm and 40mm are very good general purpose lenses. I haven't tried a 21mm so I can't comment on that compared to the 25mm. I find that 50mm is a little too restrictive and the 40 is better - and very compact for a f1.4 lens. I do have a 50mm f2/50 Summitar but I'm in the process of selling that attached to my Leica IIIf as I have too many cameras and the more modern facility of the Bessa offers quicker shooting than the Leica.

 

[Vincenzo Maielli]

Hi Analog Photographers!
My Dream team for street photography would be a bessa R(4A) and a 21mm f4
+ 50mm f1,1. BUT: I wanted to pick the R4A for the 21mm Rangefinder.
the question is: how about the focusing with the 50mm in this rangefinder, and with an external rangefinder, is focusing the same (or possible)...?

The effective rangefinder base lenght of the Bessa R4 models are no good, because is too short, and do not allow the correct focusing with the ultra speed lenses, especially with large diaphragms and short/medium focusing distances.
This problem is common with all the Bessa cameras, except the Bessa T that have very long effective rangefinder base lenght.
Ciao.
Vincenzo