Bergger panchro 400?

Kawaiithulhu · Jul 29, 2017

I picked up a couple rolls 135 and some 4x5 sheets to test out. Not seeing a lot of discussion on this emulsion yet, just some random rambling from people who don't like grain of any kind.

I usually use Tri-x in 135 and HP5+ in 4x5. The two developers I stick with are XTol and pyrocat-HD, both usually processed on a roller.

Any experience and things I should look out for when getting used to this film? Comparisons or subjects it's particularly suited for?

TIA

Don Harpold · Jul 29, 2017

Hello
I just shot and developed my first roll of Bergger in 120 in my Rolleiflex
I developed it in HC110 Dil. B 9 mins.
I like they way most came out but I do have an issue with the film curling, end to end and not side to side but other than that it looks good
I will need to shoot a few more and try some other developers to know for sure

Here are a couple that came out pretty good, for me

Kawaiithulhu · Jul 29, 2017

That's pretty nice, can almost reach out and touch that leaf.
Feels kind of open and airy without looking as antiseptic as Acros, and not quite as dramatic as Tri-X. I'm looking forward to my experiments now!

removedacct1 · Aug 18, 2017

Yesterday I had an opportunity to shoot in one of my favorite spots on the river under cloudy conditions, and I used 8X10 inch Bergger Pancro400, with the Deardorff (and Schneider Symmar-S 240mm lens). This negative was processed in Rodinal 1:25 for 7 minutes (slight pull). I felt I was having "a Clyde Butcher Moment", standing chest deep (wearing waders) in the river with my Deardoff!

View a larger version here, if you wish.

kenj8246 · Aug 18, 2017

Here's a shot on 4X5 Bergger Pan 400 developed in Rodinal 1+ 50. I like it. The film, I mean. Rodinal isn't too bad either.

Bush Library, College Station TX by Kenny Johnson, on Flickr

JWMster · Aug 18, 2017

Great exposures! THanks for sharing these... all of them. Ran some tests... Bergger film among others. Planned to run them through Perceptol, but the HC-110 looks so good!!! just might go with that. Kenny's shot is stunning, too. Paul's.... I think I've seen shots of that tree stump somewhere before... maybe I clicked on your Flickr page (if you have one?). Paul's look like Perceptol.

Doc W · Aug 19, 2017

I have been experimenting with my first box of 4x5 Pancro and I am still not too sure what to make of it. The fb+f is very high, higher than any film I have ever used and the negatives look quite ... different. I don't even know how to explain it. In any case, I like the results so far.

Here are two examples, both developed in home-brew D76 1+1 for 10' 30" (neg scans for now).

JWMster · Aug 19, 2017

At some point, what's needed in these things is a side-by-side with the same shot using different film and then developed in the same soup. As if that's not a lot of work... which it is. But heck, we do this stuff 'cause the work produces something we can't get when it's easy, right? Doc, that 1st shot is really something. Nice work!

Kawaiithulhu · Aug 24, 2017

I haven't done any 4x5 in a while, I can try a test scene with this and HP5+ in a week or so. No guarantees since I haven't really standardized on an HP5+ process yet, but then again neither have I for Bergger =)
Probably pyrocat-hd, I don't have any Xtol mixed up right now.
Expect really ugly results!

Peter Schrager · Aug 24, 2017

paulbarden said:
Yesterday I had an opportunity to shoot in one of my favorite spots on the river under cloudy conditions, and I used 8X10 inch Bergger Pancro400, with the Deardorff (and Schneider Symmar-S 240mm lens). This negative was processed in Rodinal 1:25 for 7 minutes (slight pull). I felt I was having "a Clyde Butcher Moment", standing chest deep (wearing waders) in the river with my Deardoff!
Paul what #ada do you use

View a larger version here, if you wish.

Peter Schrager · Aug 24, 2017

ASA PAUL??

Scott Micciche · Aug 24, 2017

I agree on the curling. These are out of the GF670 (6x6), xtol stock. Coolscan 8000 to raw, colorperfect virtual grade 2.

JWMster · Aug 24, 2017

Scott: Like the "Winery" shot in particular for the light shadows. Nice work! Yep: Bergger curls!

Scott Micciche · Aug 24, 2017

JWMster said:
Scott: Like the "Winery" shot in particular for the light shadows. Nice work! Yep: Bergger curls!

Thank you... I found it easy to work with aside from the curling so I had to let it sit overnight in the sleeves before trying to scan.

Mick Fagan · Aug 24, 2017

Scott, that one of the piano lady is brilliant.
Going from virtually pure white through to pure black (which, admittedly, is mainly in the background) makes me more aware of how good this film is. I only have about 1 box left (4x5") when that goes I think I'll be getting more.
My own experience of this film has been really positive, but your piano lady picture really gives a graphic example of what it can do. Lighting helped, but even then...

Mick.

Scott Micciche · Aug 25, 2017

If she hadn't of moved ... ... It was late, around 19:45, shot wide open but I do agree, the tone control with the film is quite stunning.

JWMster · Aug 25, 2017

Most folks have probably run across this already, but FWIW if you haven't.... some interesting Bergger comments: https://figitalrevolution.com/category/bergger/
My experience developing a test roll in Perceptol 1:2 at TMX times and shot at ISO 400 side-by-side with TMX 400 is that I tended to like the TMX 400 better for the tonality of the negative, but the flatness of the Bergger negative may have more potential. Have enough rolls to keep on testing... which I will.

removedacct1 · Aug 25, 2017

Peter Schrager said:
ASA PAUL??

Metered for 200ASA

Peter Schrager · Aug 25, 2017

paulbarden said:
Metered for 200ASA

thanks!!!

Peter Schrager · Aug 25, 2017

my personal take on the Bergger film
it's very nice to have more flavors/choices for photographers
I used it at box speed and it had low contrast..this may be good for certain concepts and or very high contrast scenes
you will have to work it to make it your own...shoot many rolls to understand it faults and pluses
we already have some great films available. I really like the newer tri-x and tmy400 in my estimation the best film ever made plus I get full 400 ASA with it
Bergger said they will also do cut sizes which is a definate plus

JWMster · Aug 25, 2017

+1 to Peter's comment. I've got a lot of Ilford HP5 and FP4 on hand, but having finally gotten around to doing some testing of the films I use or would like to use... the TMX (TMY) 400 is a "wow!" film. Love the tonal response. I've been testing so far in Perceptol 1:2 but want to expand that to include a developer that will run closer to box speed - for when it's necessary ...like when I'm out walking in the evening. Thinking either ID-11 or XTOL....

Scott Micciche · Aug 25, 2017

JWMster said:
Most folks have probably run across this already, but FWIW if you haven't.... some interesting Bergger comments: https://figitalrevolution.com/category/bergger/
My experience developing a test roll in Perceptol 1:2 at TMX times and shot at ISO 400 side-by-side with TMX 400 is that I tended to like the TMX 400 better for the tonality of the negative, but the flatness of the Bergger negative may have more potential. Have enough rolls to keep on testing... which I will.

That caffenol image is stunning in that article!

Peter Schrager · Aug 25, 2017

JWMster said:
+1 to Peter's comment. I've got a lot of Ilford HP5 and FP4 on hand, but having finally gotten around to doing some testing of the films I use or would like to use... the TMX (TMY) 400 is a "wow!" film. Love the tonal response. I've been testing so far in Perceptol 1:2 but want to expand that to include a developer that will run closer to box speed - for when it's necessary ...like when I'm out walking in the evening. Thinking either ID-11 or XTOL....

Pm me for proper way to develop tmy400
Been using fp4 too in whole plate and after 200 sheets just starting to appreciate it

aparat · Aug 28, 2017

I had been tempted to try this film for some time, and so I recently bought a few 35mm rolls. I exposed at EI400, developed in XTOL (stock) for 10 min at 68F. I found the film to be capable of producing beautiful, subtle tonalities, with rich mid-tones, and good perceived sharpness. I also found the manufacturer's recommended developing times for XTOL to be spot-on, but, with sheet film, you are probably better off doing a proper film test, anyway. I definitely think the film is worth considering as one's main ASA 400 film. Once my current supply of HP5+ runs out, I might give the Pancro400 a try to see if it can replace it. Bergger should be applauded for creating such a nice film in today's uncertain market.

The film seems to have two personalities. One emerges through scanning. In my experience, compared to other ASA 400 films, such as Ilford Delta 400 and, particularly TMY2, the Pancro400 appears gritty and loses its subtle tonality in the digitization process (I scan in 16-bit linear mode, converting to positive in ColorNeg). It would not be my choice for a hybrid workflow, at least not in 35mm. The film loses too much of its subtle character.

The other personality comes through in the wet printing process, where the film is truly lovely, with excellent sharpness and a lack of visible grain in a 8x10 print. Its main strength, however, is tonality, with excellent shadow detail, and creamy highlights. It seems perfect for portraits.

Scott Micciche · Aug 28, 2017

I'll find out soon enough scanning in 135. I've got 1/3 roll shot at 320 and am curious as to how it scans. I've been trying to build a darkroom to do some wet printing, and acquired a used focomat v35 ... not enough time. I will develop using xtol stock and use the same workflow as colorperfect's inversion is superior to any I've used, especially scanner software.

Bergger panchro 400?

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