Bellows for Nikon f mount

$12.66

A
$12.66

  • 6
  • 3
  • 126
A street portrait

A
A street portrait

  • 1
  • 0
  • 152
A street portrait

A
A street portrait

  • 2
  • 2
  • 143
img746.jpg

img746.jpg

  • 6
  • 0
  • 112
No Hall

No Hall

  • 1
  • 8
  • 175

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,804
Messages
2,781,095
Members
99,708
Latest member
sdharris
Recent bookmarks
1

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
Hello,
I am wanting to get a bellows for my nikon f mount (film and digital) to use with my macro lens. I hope to get better focused images. (I am getting a rail system too. )
My question is which bellows should I get? Are they the same? I see about 3 different ones at KEH and range from $30-$200. what would be the best option for casual macro shooting of Lichen and mushrooms and maybe fruit stilllifes.

Thank you.
 

mshchem

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
14,645
Location
Iowa City, Iowa USA
Format
Medium Format
Bellows like PB-4 (magnificent) work best with a bellows lens or an enlarger lens. With a macro lens (one designed for use without bellows) you're going to get extreme magnification and little working distance.

If you're going old school Nikon PB-4 bellows and a 105mm (or 135mm) bellows Nikkor, probably would want a ring flash too.

It's not worth the trouble MHOFWIW,
 
OP
OP
pamphoto

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
Bellows like PB-4 (magnificent) work best with a bellows lens or an enlarger lens. With a macro lens (one designed for use without bellows) you're going to get extreme magnification and little working distance.

If you're going old school Nikon PB-4 bellows and a 105mm (or 135mm) bellows Nikkor, probably would want a ring flash too.

It's not worth the trouble MHOFWIW,

Thank you for the information. I used a Leica with bellows with the 100mm macro and got really nice results, but the system was not mine and I cannot afford one of my own. I was trying to replicate it.

I have a 100mm macro and am having issues focusing.
 

Les Sarile

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
3,425
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Format
35mm
Nikon F3 DW-3 MD-4 PB-4 AS-17 AS-14 SB-21 AR-7

The rail movements are very smooth. The PB-4 even has a little tilt and shift. For straightforward simple magnification, any bellows in good shape should be fine.

F3 DW-3 MD-4 PB-4 AS-17 AS-14 SB-21 AR-7 by Les DMess, on Flickr

You can even reverse mount the lens for greater magnification

Macro Lens + Autobellows by Les DMess, on Flickr

How much magnification and how much distance are you working with?
 
OP
OP
pamphoto

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
Nikon F3 DW-3 MD-4 PB-4 AS-17 AS-14 SB-21 AR-7

The rail movements are very smooth. The PB-4 even has a little tilt and shift. For straightforward simple magnification, any bellows in good shape should be fine.

F3 DW-3 MD-4 PB-4 AS-17 AS-14 SB-21 AR-7 by Les DMess, on Flickr

You can even reverse mount the lens for greater magnification

Macro Lens + Autobellows by Les DMess, on Flickr

How much magnification and how much distance are you working with?

Thank you for the images and details. My lens is a 1:2 magnification. Distance is really close. I'd have to look up the specs.
 
Last edited:

Ian C

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
1,251
Format
Large Format
You need to be aware of the minimum distance from the flange surface of the lens to that of the camera when the bellows unit is mounted between the lens and the body. That imposes limits on what you can do. It’s especially limiting with a relatively short focal length lens. If you can tell me the lens you intend to use, I can measure mine and give you some practical information that will help you decide how to proceed.

I’m not home now. But when I am, I will measure the minimum distance when the bellows are fully collapsed. I have the Nikon PB4 and PB6 units, as well as a cheap unit by Soligor or Star-D (I’ll have to check the brand).

I recently wanted to photograph some small prints of 34.5 mm x 27 mm headshots in my Jr. high school yearbook with a 35 mm. I first tried a 50 mm EL Nikkor enlarging lens. But with the bellows fully collapsed, the lens was too far from the camera. The magnification was too great. Only the central part of the subject (about 65% of the yearbook photo) was seen in the finder. I found that using a 4/80 Rodagon was about right. A 90 mm - 105 mm enlarging lens would work too. The lens choice depends on the required magnification and the subject-to-lens distance needed.

If you use a Nikon bellows and want to mount a 39mm Leica-thread enlarging lens to the front of the bellows, you should buy the following adapter. It’s what I use.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1413323-REG/fotodiox_m39_nikf_lens_mount_adapter_for.html

Enlarging lenses are excellent macro lenses. You can buy a good 6-element 4-group enlarging lens via eBay or Photrio ad relatively cheaply. They’re much cheaper than buying a high-grade macro lens. The results are identical in my experience.

I’ll try to send the minimum flange-to-flange distance with my Nikon bellows units later this afternoon or Wednesday morning. Once that dimension is known, you can determine the minimum magnification with the bellows collapsed. You can also determine the maximum magnification possible.

The setup shown in post #8 is quite expensive and overkill in terms of practical results for only occasional use. The image quality from this would be the same as with a cheap bellows unit and a good 6-element 4-group enlarger lens. I have both, so I’d done the comparison.

I assume that for macro work the camera is on a tripod. You don’t need an expensive double cable release. If you use an enlarger lens, only the release to the camera is used, or you can use the self-timer.

If you use an auto-diaphragm lens, you can use:

1. Two standard release cables.

2. Cable on the front of the bellows unit only (to stop down the aperture) and self-timer on the camera.

Attached are front and obverse scans of 8" x 10" prints of a copper coin about the size of an old U.S, silver dollar. These were photographed on a Nikon bellows unit with a forward-facing 4/80 Rodagon enlarging lens on Kodak T-Max 100.

The scans were made on a Ricoh MP C2503 copier/scanner at my public library—not on a dedicated photo scanner.
 

Attachments

  • Front.pdf
    652.8 KB · Views: 41
  • Obverse.pdf
    612.3 KB · Views: 24
Last edited:

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,649
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format
Hello,
I am wanting to get a bellows for my nikon f mount (film and digital) to use with my macro lens. I hope to get better focused images. (I am getting a rail system too. )
My question is which bellows should I get? Are they the same? I see about 3 different ones at KEH and range from $30-$200. what would be the best option for casual macro shooting of Lichen and mushrooms and maybe fruit stilllifes.

Thank you.

A macro lens and possibly an extension ring may be sufficient for what you want to shoot. As far as Nikon bellows go, PB4-6 are pretty much the same thing.
 

Petrochemist

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
147
Location
Uk
Format
Multi Format
One of my BPM bellows came with a set of Nikon F mounts. Unlike many other types the lens & camera mounts on BPM bellows are easily interchangeable, so it's easy to use alternate lenses when you want more working distance - working distance is usually greater with longer focal lengths, but the magnification achieved with a given extension is less.
They don't have fancy tilt / shift movements, but they are often only 10% the price of bellows that do!

If you're only after a small range in extension a helicoid (variable length extension tube) might be a more robust way to go, but it's hard to source these with Nikon mounts.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,791
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
I agree with Ralph. You already have a 100mm macro lens and that might be all you need. The question becomes what magnification does your macro lens reach? 2:1 or 1:1? If it only reaches to 2:1, and you want to get closer, just get an extension tube designed for your lens.

Lots of people love to live vicariously by spending your money -- on a bellows that you might not need.

You did not specify exactly what lens you have, and if you are having trouble focusing, all you might need is a viewfinder magnifier. These are very inexpensive. I use one all the time for my macro work. Buying a bellows will not make focusing any easier. That would be like buying a magnifying glass when you really need eye glasses.
 
Last edited:

Chan Tran

Subscriber
Joined
May 10, 2006
Messages
6,816
Location
Sachse, TX
Format
35mm
I use a Nikon PB-6 and I use mostly enlarging lenses on it. I use a 39mm to 42mm adapter and a M42 to Nikon F adapter. I think I will get a M39 to Nikon F mount. I found the enlarging lenses work out very well. I have lenses from 40mm to 135mm but my favorite is the EL Nikkor 80mm f/5.6. With the EL Nikkor 135mm f/5.6 I can focus to infinity. With the EL Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 which is very good but the working distance is too close so I don't use it much.
 

Ian C

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
1,251
Format
Large Format
Follow up to post #8

When closed, the distance from the lens-mount flange of the camera body to that of the front of the Nikon PB4 bellows is about 43 mm. That gives the following minimum magnifications with Nikon F-mount lenses (lens set to infinity):

50 mm, 0.86X

85 mm, 0.51X

105 mm, 0.41X

135 mm, 0.32X

If you used the FotodioX adapter (its flange is about 2 mm thick), you’d get the following minimum magnifications with the following specified EL Nikkors:

50 mm f/2.8N, 0.87X (focal length is 52 mm per Nikon data)

80 mm f/5.6N, 0.56X

105 mm f/5.6N, 0.43X

135 mm f/5.6A, 0.33X
 
Last edited:

Chan Tran

Subscriber
Joined
May 10, 2006
Messages
6,816
Location
Sachse, TX
Format
35mm
Follow up to post #8

When closed, the distance from the lens-mount flange of the camera body to that of the front of the Nikon PB4 bellows is about 43 mm. That gives the following minimum magnification with Nikon F-mount lenses (lens set to infinity):

50 mm, 0.86X

85 mm, 0.51X

105 mm, 0.41X

135 mm, 0.32X

If you used the FotodioX adapter (its flange is about 2 mm thick), you’d get the following minimum magnifications with the following specified EL Nikkors:

50 mm f/2.8N, 0.87X (focal length is 52 mm per Nikon data)

80 mm f/5.6N, 0.56X

105 mm f/5.6N, 0.43X

135 mm f/5.6A, 0.33X

What is the magnification at infinity? I used the PB-6 I think the distance is about the same as the PB-4 and I do have infinity focusing with the EL Nikkor 135 f/5.6.
 

Ian C

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
1,251
Format
Large Format
With any lens, the magnification at infinity is zero.

Magnification = i/f – 1, where i is the image distance

At infinity i = f, so,

magnification = f/f - 1 = 0

Focusing at infinity positions the second nodal point of the lens at distance f from the image plane.
 
Last edited:

Chan Tran

Subscriber
Joined
May 10, 2006
Messages
6,816
Location
Sachse, TX
Format
35mm
With any lens, the magnification at infinity is zero.

Magnification = i/f – 1, where i is the image distance

At infinity i = f, so,

magnification = f/f - 1 = 0

Focusing at infinity positions the second nodal point of the lens at distance f from the image plane.

I don't know exactly where the rear nodal point of the lens is but I know I can focus to infinity (in fact somewhat pass infinity) with the 135mm and to about 10 meter with the 105mm.
 

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,649
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format
With any lens, the magnification at infinity is zero.

Magnification = i/f – 1, where i is the image distance

At infinity i = f, so,

magnification = f/f - 1 = 0

Focusing at infinity positions the second nodal point of the lens at distance f from the image plane.

very enlightening! thanks
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,823
Format
Multi Format
Hello,
I am wanting to get a bellows for my nikon f mount (film and digital) to use with my macro lens. I hope to get better focused images. (I am getting a rail system too. )
My question is which bellows should I get? Are they the same? I see about 3 different ones at KEH and range from $30-$200. what would be the best option for casual macro shooting of Lichen and mushrooms and maybe fruit stilllifes.

Thank you.

It is gray and rainy here, and here I am to rain on your fantasy. Why do you need a bellows when you're going to be working at magnifications < 1:1? A macro lens that will go to 1:1 on its own mount or to 1:2 on its own mount and 1:1 on an extension tube will do what you say you want to accomplish and will be easier to use than a bellows rig.

I've had a PB-4 since 1970. For most of my close-up work a plain ordinary MicroNikkor (55/2.8, 105/2.8 or 200/4, all AIS, and a 105/2.8 AF for my D810) are much easier to use.

Focusing? With manual focus lenses, I dial in the magnification I want and focus by teetering back and forth. With AF, I let the camera/lens take over and teeter in and out to get the magnification I want.
 
OP
OP
pamphoto

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
You need to be aware of the minimum distance from the flange surface of the lens to that of the camera when the bellows unit is mounted between the lens and the body. That imposes limits on what you can do. It’s especially limiting with a relatively short focal length lens. If you can tell me the lens you intend to use, I can measure mine and give you some practical information that will help you decide how to proceed.

I’m not home now. But when I am, I will measure the minimum distance when the bellows are fully collapsed. I have the Nikon PB4 and PB6 units, as well as a cheap unit by Soligor or Star-D (I’ll have to check the brand).

I recently wanted to photograph some small prints of 34.5 mm x 27 mm headshots in my Jr. high school yearbook with a 35 mm. I first tried a 50 mm EL Nikkor enlarging lens. But with the bellows fully collapsed, the lens was too far from the camera. The magnification was too great. Only the central part of the subject (about 65% of the yearbook photo) was seen in the finder. I found that using a 4/80 Rodagon was about right. A 90 mm - 105 mm enlarging lens would work too. The lens choice depends on the required magnification and the subject-to-lens distance needed.

If you use a Nikon bellows and want to mount a 39mm Leica-thread enlarging lens to the front of the bellows, you should buy the following adapter. It’s what I use.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1413323-REG/fotodiox_m39_nikf_lens_mount_adapter_for.html

Enlarging lenses are excellent macro lenses. You can buy a good 6-element 4-group enlarging lens via eBay or Photrio ad relatively cheaply. They’re much cheaper than buying a high-grade macro lens. The results are identical in my experience.

I’ll try to send the minimum flange-to-flange distance with my Nikon bellows units later this afternoon or Wednesday morning. Once that dimension is known, you can determine the minimum magnification with the bellows collapsed. You can also determine the maximum magnification possible.

The setup shown in post #8 is quite expensive and overkill in terms of practical results for only occasional use. The image quality from this would be the same as with a cheap bellows unit and a good 6-element 4-group enlarger lens. I have both, so I’d done the comparison.

I assume that for macro work the camera is on a tripod. You don’t need an expensive double cable release. If you use an enlarger lens, only the release to the camera is used, or you can use the self-timer.

If you use an auto-diaphragm lens, you can use:

1. Two standard release cables.

2. Cable on the front of the bellows unit only (to stop down the aperture) and self-timer on the camera.

Attached are front and obverse scans of 8" x 10" prints of a copper coin about the size of an old U.S, silver dollar. These were photographed on a Nikon bellows unit with a forward-facing 4/80 Rodagon enlarging lens on Kodak T-Max 100.

The scans were made on a Ricoh MP C2503 copier/scanner at my public library—not on a dedicated photo scanner.

Thank you for the detailed reply and photos. I am thinking that with this particular lens, just a rail system might be all I need to get the lens in the correct position. My lens is a Laowa 100mm; 2:1 magnification; F2.8. I looked up the specs on it and it says minimum focus distance is 24.7cm. The lens is longer than i remember the Leica being.
 
OP
OP
pamphoto

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
One of my BPM bellows came with a set of Nikon F mounts. Unlike many other types the lens & camera mounts on BPM bellows are easily interchangeable, so it's easy to use alternate lenses when you want more working distance - working distance is usually greater with longer focal lengths, but the magnification achieved with a given extension is less.
They don't have fancy tilt / shift movements, but they are often only 10% the price of bellows that do!

If you're only after a small range in extension a helicoid (variable length extension tube) might be a more robust way to go, but it's hard to source these with Nikon mounts.

Thank you. I am just getting into macro photography and really liked the Leica set up. I will look into the BPM bellows. Maybe I can use it for things that are a bit further away than what my 100mm lens can get to.
I am still learning. Thank you!
 
OP
OP
pamphoto

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
I agree with Ralph. You already have a 100mm macro lens and that might be all you need. The question becomes what magnification does your macro lens reach? 2:1 or 1:1? If it only reaches to 2:1, and you want to get closer, just get an extension tube designed for your lens.

Lots of people love to live vicariously by spending your money -- on a bellows that you might not need.

You did not specify exactly what lens you have, and if you are having trouble focusing, all you might need is a viewfinder magnifier. These are very inexpensive. I use one all the time for my macro work. Buying a bellows will not make focusing any easier. That would be like buying a magnifying glass when you really need eye glasses.

My lens is a 2:1 which is two times 1:1 magnification. It's the Laowa 100mm f2.8, 2:1 for Nikon. I am wanting to set the focus on the lens, then move the camera to get the subject in focus. Moving the tripod back and forth does not work well outside. Inside I was fine.
The Leica setup I used with the bellows and a 1:1 100mm lens, I got great images, on film, without a timer or cable release. It had a bellows I used to move the lens into focus. So I was hoping to recreate it. But that might not be possible with the different gear, or I need to reconsider what I am trying to accomplish and how to best do that.
Thank you for your help.
 
OP
OP
pamphoto

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
I use a Nikon PB-6 and I use mostly enlarging lenses on it. I use a 39mm to 42mm adapter and a M42 to Nikon F adapter. I think I will get a M39 to Nikon F mount. I found the enlarging lenses work out very well. I have lenses from 40mm to 135mm but my favorite is the EL Nikkor 80mm f/5.6. With the EL Nikkor 135mm f/5.6 I can focus to infinity. With the EL Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 which is very good but the working distance is too close so I don't use it much.

Thank you. I will look into the PB-6 . Right now, I only hae the 100mm f2.8 2:1 Laowa lens.
 
OP
OP
pamphoto

pamphoto

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2023
Messages
105
Location
Texas
Format
Multi Format
It is gray and rainy here, and here I am to rain on your fantasy. Why do you need a bellows when you're going to be working at magnifications < 1:1? A macro lens that will go to 1:1 on its own mount or to 1:2 on its own mount and 1:1 on an extension tube will do what you say you want to accomplish and will be easier to use than a bellows rig.

I've had a PB-4 since 1970. For most of my close-up work a plain ordinary MicroNikkor (55/2.8, 105/2.8 or 200/4, all AIS, and a 105/2.8 AF for my D810) are much easier to use.

Focusing? With manual focus lenses, I dial in the magnification I want and focus by teetering back and forth. With AF, I let the camera/lens take over and teeter in and out to get the magnification I want.

Thank you for the response. The issue I am having is teetering the camera back and forth to get the focus with the tripod on the ground. This lens is manual focus and has 2:1 magnification. I used a bellows with the Leica set up and was able to get nice crisp images. I was hoping for the same with my Nikon set up. I am thinking a rail system might be better suited for the Nikon.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom