Bellows fix question

[shutterfinger]

I have a #2C Folding Autographic Brownie. I found a Kodak catalog from 1917 saying it has intimation leather covering and a leather bellows.
The bellows lining is in very good condition. The leather is very thin, dried and flaked off in many places.
Finding leather that thin will likely be impossible or very expensive. I'm considering painting the exterior with Golden Fluid Body #1040 carbon black paint. Replacing or making a new bellows is out of the question as they are riveted to the front standard.
How would you fix the bellows to make them light tight?

1917 Kodak Catalog listing.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I've never had much success patching dried up leather bellows.
But rivets are easy to drill out and replace. I've made small rivets on a lathe from steel, copper, and aluminium in odd sizes not commercially available. When I get to a proper computer I'll see about links for tiny rivets and setting tools.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Rivets down to 1/16", which might do the job for you Also various tools for setting same - Dead Link Removed

 

[R.Gould]

I did a dried up old leather bellows that leaked light a couple of years ago, a few light coats of artists acrylic black paint, in y case Winsor and Newton Galleria Arcylic paint in black. painted on bellows and left to dry, repeat 3 or 4 times then leave the camera sitting with the bellows open, and after around 2 years the bellows are looking reasonably good and are still light tight, it was a pre war Agfa camera, and I was out using it only this week
Richard

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I tried La

I have a #2C Folding Autographic Brownie. I found a Kodak catalog from 1917 saying it has intimation leather covering and a leather bellows.
The bellows lining is in very good condition. The leather is very thin, dried and flaked off in many places.
Finding leather that thin will likely be impossible or very expensive. I'm considering painting the exterior with Golden Fluid Body #1040 carbon black paint. Replacing or making a new bellows is out of the question as they are riveted to the front standard.
How would you fix the bellows to make them light tight?
View attachment 192263
1917 Kodak Catalog listing.

tex but ave up and bought new bellows from Camera Bellows'(no longer in business I think)

 

[R.Gould]

I tried La

tex but ave up and bought new bellows from Camera Bellows'(no longer in business I think)

They have just changed their name from camera bellows to custom bellows, they still make camera bellows among a lot of other bellows

 

[shutterfinger]

A piece of the leather that fell off measures .010 inch thick.
On larger cameras I have glued bellows cloth to the inside of the bellows to make them light tight and treated the dried leather with neatsfoot oil to soften them but on a folder such as this it would likely make them too thick to close the camera.
This is the base camera with the meniscus lens.
I have had good luck with the Golden Heavy Body acrylic artist paint recoating shutter curtains in Graflex cameras.
I'll let the new owner replace the bellows if they care to do so.

 

[paul ron]

that camera will look great on the mantle. a bellows will cost more than the camera is worth.

all those coatings never really work. they are a band aide on an infection, not a cure.

 

[jim10219]

Honestly, you're best bet would be to find another camera and steal the bellows off that one. I've seen quite a few of those around with the bellows still in good condition.

I have a WWII Anniversary Speed Graphic that came with bad bellows. I tried acrylic paint. It cracked and flaked off. I tried mixing the paint with white glue. It either didn't block out the light (too thin) or wouldn't allow the bellows to fold up (too thick). I tried plasti-dip. It worked until you folded up the bellows and the plasti-dip got warm while resting up against more plastic dip and they stuck to each other instead of the bellows, and ripped off. In the end, I bought new bellows. The WWII Anniversary bellows aren't leather, so it wasn't the same situation that you're in, but I can tell you from the months of trial and error I spent trying to find a cheap way to fix those old bellows that if you're dealing with more than just a few tiny pinholes, you're better off replacing them.

The plasti-dip did work wonders on the shutter curtains for the Speed Graphic though.

 

[shutterfinger]

For Speed Graphics and other cameras with the outside in fair to good shape paint the inside of the bellows.
There are several Kodak replacement bellows on ebay for various folders but none match these even though one listing says its for this camera and shutter combination.
Any sources for .010 thick vinyl or leather for few $?

 

[M Carter]

For pinholes I've used permatex black gasket stuff, available in a very small tube. Probably more of a band-aid, but so far so good. I have an HMI fresnel that's a UV blaster, I remove the lens and use it to cure the permatex, don't know if the UV makes a difference but the warmth at least does. I have a pinhole camera with gobs of permatex, the HMI dried it very quickly.

 

[Ian Grant]

At one point there were boxes of these original Kodak bellows at the camera fair I go to. The company Camera Bellows, now Custom Bellows made many millions of bellows for Kodak, they still make most OEM bellows in the West.

Ian

 

[StanMac]

I found very thin leather at this site, http://www.columbiaorgan.com/col/skins.htm . I ordered a sample to evaluate it for making a replacement bellows for a Speedex. They have some very thin leather from .008” up to .026” in their pneumatic leathers. The .008” sample I got had some areas so thin it was not light tight. But even where it was light tight it felt thin as tissue paper! When I start my bellows project, if I ever do, I would use the next size up. The next size up, the .01” - .012”, would be good for layering on to repair a bellows. It is also pretty affordable.

Stan

 

[Pentode]

I had decent luck with Permatex gasket material as well, but the bellows I repaired were some sort of rubber rather than leather.

You have little to lose by trying it. It’s inexpensive and if it doesn’t work you’re no worse off than when you started. The bellows I patched have remained light-tight for about 20 years. I expected it to last a few months!

 

[shutterfinger]

Thanks for the link Stan.
Ian, do you have/know of a list of Kodak part numbers and what cameras they fit?

Bellows consist of an inner layer usually black cloth that is very durable, pleat stiffeners which are thick card stock/single layer cardboard, and the outer covering which is thin leather or Vinyl.
Gasket material is usually RTV sealant which is fine for an occasional pin hole but not piratical to do a complete exterior cover.

I'm going to scrape off the dead leather covering then wrap the bellows in either sports nylon or rip stop nylon then paint with the Golden Acrylic Artist paint which is quite durable, opaque, and dries flexible. It does not adhere to vinyl but does adhere to cloth very well.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ian, do you have/know of a list of Kodak part numbers and what cameras they fit?

Unfortunately no. I think when Camera Bellows closed and moved premises the bellows were sold through my local camera fair, Like Lee Filters, Camera Bellows had been owned by the UK Arriflex distributors and the easiest way to regain independence was to close and start again as Custom Bellows.

I know that when I wanted bag bellows for a De Vere monorail camera the woman at Camera Bellows walked to a map drawer and pulled out original drawings whether they still have thse for all the cameras and bellows they worked on I don't know.

Just occasionally the boxes of small bellows re-appear.

Ian

 

[shutterfinger]

Thanks Ian. One U.S. seller is in Kansas the other in Virginia.
.

 

[shutterfinger]

The comments thus far in this thread has helped determine a course of repair action, thank you.
I consider this bellows repairable for the following reason, the inner cloth is sturdy and not torn and the pleat stiffeners are in very good shape making the bellows solid as factory fresh but with a bad outer covering.
If the inner cloth was bad I would trash the bellows/camera as the inner cloth is the foundation of the bellows. 2 of 3 layers good = repair; 2 of 3 layers bad = trash or replace.
The bellows removed from the body and stripped of the bad outer covering.

 

[StanMac]

Please keep us posted on your process and results of the recovering. The interior cloth on a couple of my folders also appears to be in quite good condition. The results of your recovering efforts would be of interest to me as that may be the route I go instead of the tedious process of making a new bellows. Thank you!

Stan

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I found very thin leather at this site, http://www.columbiaorgan.com/col/skins.htm . I ordered a sample to evaluate it for making a replacement bellows for a Speedex. They have some very thin leather from .008” up to .026” in their pneumatic leathers. The .008” sample I got had some areas so thin it was not light tight. But even where it was light tight it felt thin as tissue paper! When I start my bellows project, if I ever do, I would use the next size up. The next size up, the .01” - .012”, would be good for layering on to repair a bellows. It is also pretty affordable.

Stan

Thanks for that link, I have a 1930s Kodak Bantam with bad bellows. I'll probably need to find or make new ones, but it's possible I can salvage them by reskinning with some of that thin leather. Or use the leather to make new ones, perhaps maroon.

 

[shutterfinger]

1st I cut strips of wood to just fit between the front standard frame and the rear frame which stretch the bellows to their limit.
2nd. stripped the old outer covering which was brittle leather.
3rd. made a template from printer paper, one side of the bellows at a time then taped the pieces together then tested the pattern for fit on the bellows.
4th. I selected the sports nylon I had on hand, rip stop nylon would be better as its a tighter weave. I used straight pins to attach the pattern to the nylon then cut the nylon according to the pattern.
5th. I painted the new cover with Golden Fluid Acrylic Artist paint diluted with water 1:2 to fill the spaces in the nylon.
6th. Using DAP Weldwood Nonflammable Contact cement (latex based, cleans with water when wet, rubs off easily when dry) I coated one side of the bellows and the inside section of the replacement cover, laid the cover in place and pressed down and allowed to cure for 5 to 15 minutes.
7th. After drying for 12 to 14 hours (overnight) I folded the bellows according to the original pattern and weighted down folded.
8th. After 10 to 12 hours folded with weight I painted the bellows with the Golden Artist paint in three more coats with the last mixed 1:1.
Pictures of the now light tight bellows ready for installation into the body.

Yes, there are some wrinkles likely from the nylon stretching in handling

 

[Ian Grant]

I restored a Speed Graphic for someone about 18 months ago, I fitted new bellows. I needed bellows quickly for a 6x7cm camera I'd made and recovered the Graflex bellows with material from ThorLabs, It was a much neater job but very quick and simple,

Ian

 

[shutterfinger]

And here it is back together and ready for film

I still have to make a ruby window and 120 adapters before loading some film.
I need to find a better way to recrimp the rear frame, but its square and flush.
This is not a project I would take on for someone else. Being its mine I decided to try to get it usable.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've never attempted to make my own, but Joe Van Cleave is one smart cookie. He made his own bellow.

 

[shutterfinger]

If I wanted a new bellows I would have bought a NOS available on ebay or followed the instructions in my copy of National Camera Repair The Bellows.
I will make it available if anyone would like a copy.

For the ruby window I have some deep red flash/studio light filter material and a 5/8 arch punch, the window hole is 1/2 inch.
I loosened the exterior leather, slid the filter material under it, then applied the latex contact cement. The excess cement rubbed off easily and the window hole is now covered.