Beginner problem developing in the kitchen sink

[removed account4]

suppose there are people who wash their hands two or three times in a row..

4 times! Can’t be too sure…

 

[Agulliver]

OP, you are ok. Just wash everything well.

What I do: I keep separate sponges and scrubbers for food and photography [Keep them in separate places]. Before I change from one to the other I use Barkeepers Helper and scrub down both sinks with the appropriate sponges and let the sink dry.

Yes, use separate sponges and any other cleaning implements. Also don't use measuring jugs that you use for food/drink to measure out photo chemicals. You *could* do it safely but it's just a wise precaution not to. That's a sensible idea. And clean the sink after doing photographic work and before doing the dishes. Probably a good idea to clean it between dishes and film developing too....the last thing you want is small food particles or tiny amounts of dish washing liquid or whatever else you put in the sink getting in your film developing tank.

And honestly...the stuff you likely clean your kitchen floor with and maybe rinse your mop in the sink is far more dangerous to health than any standard B&W developer. Hand sanitiser too, for that matter. And yes, I use both. People have been doing this in kitchens and bathrooms for decades. A few sensible precautions and it's all perfectly fine. If you are worried about photo chemicals, please do not ever consider dying your own hair. The stuff in hair dye is orders of magnitude more damaging than standard B&W photo chemicals. And that's also designed to be used in the sink.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The stuff in hair dye is orders of magnitude more damaging than standard B&W photo chemicals. And that's also designed to be used in the sink.

Actually, several of the ingredients in hair dyes are B&W developing agents. Phenylene-diamine derivatives (CD-3 and CD-4 are PPD variants), catechols -- seems to me I've read of people developing film in suitably alkalized hair dye...

 

[AgX]

It is bit more complicated. And at least here in the EU there is quite some control on cosmetics and hair-dyes. And within seconds of looking at EU papers I found a Chloro-PPD form that is going to be banned.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32019R0681&from=EN

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Actually, several of the ingredients in hair dyes are B&W developing agents.

Chloro-Resorcinol is in almost all hair dyes and is one of the putative 'magic ingredients' making up the X in Microdol-X.

I wonder if old stinky Dektol would make a good hair dye?

Many developing agents are produced by plants as fungicides. Catechol can be extracted from apples and bannanas.

 

[pentaxuser]

Actually, several of the ingredients in hair dyes are B&W developing agents.

Funny you should say this, as I recently dyed my hair a lovely chestnut brown and I am sure it has improved my sepia toning. I wonder if some of the ingredients seep through to the brain which transmits a sort of a message to that part of the brain that is responsible for brown toning

A friend went blond and since then his highlights on his head and in his prints look overexposed. There has to be a correlation, I feel

pentaxuser

 

[Horatio]

I’ll cast a vote for caffenol here for kitchen friendliness.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I’ll cast a vote for caffenol here for kitchen friendliness.

Probably as good as it'll get, but it stinks.

Second place might be Xtol (tiny level of phenidone derivative, borax found in laundry products for alkali, though sulfonates from the sulfite are one of the things I've seen warnings about). Likely Adox XT-3 would be better than Xtol due to no borax.

Beerenol? Nothing but beer and suitable alkali (washing soda, usually), probably less stinky than Caffenol (haven't tried it with beer yet).

 

[Horatio]

Probably as good as it'll get, but it stinks.

Second place might be Xtol (tiny level of phenidone derivative, borax found in laundry products for alkali, though sulfonates from the sulfite are one of the things I've seen warnings about). Likely Adox XT-3 would be better than Xtol due to no borax.

Beerenol? Nothing but beer and suitable alkali (washing soda, usually), probably less stinky than Caffenol (haven't tried it with beer yet).

Lager or Pilsner? Better yet, brew your own and drink the leftovers!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Lager or Pilsner? Better yet, brew your own and drink the leftovers!

There is a craft beer (an ale, IIRC) made specifically for this (adjuncted with high phenol content berries), but it's pretty expensive compared to plain old Rainier (which is a lager pretty similar to a pilsner).

In fact, almost any beer ought to work if Rainier does. Likely you'll get more activity with a higher body beer -- or some of the action might be due to components of the hops, so an IPA might be preferred, but again, if Rainier works, I'd expect really cheap stuff like Hamm's or Busch to do so as well. I'd probably avoid "light" beers, though -- like developing in Xtol 1+3 instead of 1+1, little if anything gained, just takes longer.

 

[Horatio]

There is a craft beer (an ale, IIRC) made specifically for this (adjuncted with high phenol content berries), but it's pretty expensive compared to plain old Rainier (which is a lager pretty similar to a pilsner).

In fact, almost any beer ought to work if Rainier does. Likely you'll get more activity with a higher body beer -- or some of the action might be due to components of the hops, so an IPA might be preferred, but again, if Rainier works, I'd expect really cheap stuff like Hamm's or Busch to do so as well. I'd probably avoid "light" beers, though -- like developing in Xtol 1+3 instead of 1+1, little if anything gained, just takes longer.

How about non-alcoholic beer? Any phenols there?

Edit: According to a study I found via google, ales have the highest phenolic content of all beers. Non-alcoholic beers have about 1/3rd the amount of phenols, 3.4mg/L. That doesn't sound like enough for development, but then again I'm not a chemist.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Looks like you'd get very slow development with near beer. Given ales have the highest content of the presumed developing agent, a homebrewed IPA (which, given the oak chips or barrel priming will also pick up a little tannin) is likely to be the strongest/fastest working developer. Still, seems like a waste of good beer compared to using brews I'd hardly drink that cost about the same as homebrew...

 

[removed account4]

BAC1967 develops film in beer
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...w-was-it-developed.125236/page-5#post-1656644
seems like caffenol, the cheeper the better... but I've never done it so I don't know.

 

[Donald Qualls]

BAC1967 develops film in beer

That's where I noted the use of Rainier.

It used to be brewed in south Seattle (I could smell the brewery from the freeway when they were boiling the wort). I see no reason Hamms, Busch, or other "animal" beer shouldn't work exactly the same. Better beer might well work better (in terms of having more of whatever develops the halide) but Rainier et al. apparently work well enough I wouldn't want to use beer I actually enjoy drinking.

 

[BAC1967]

I've developed in Rainier, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Budweiser, Fosters, home brewed Porter ... I've seen little variation from beer to beer so I usually go with stuff I don't like that people leave behind at a party, what's on sale at the grocery store or whatever is cheapest. I don't usually use beer I like to drink. When I developed my recipe I used caffenol as a starting point.

Here is my recipe.
Beer (cheap Lager, like Pabst Blue Ribbon works good) - 12oz
Sodium Carbonate (Arm & Hammer Washing Soda) - 2.75 Tsp
Ascorbic Acid Powder (Vitamin C) - 1.25 Tsp
Salt (Morton's Iodized Table Salt) - 1/4 Tsp

Add the ingredients in the order listed above. Fully dissolve the Sodium Carbonate in the beer before adding the next two ingredients, this may take several minutes. I mix everything in a clear container so that I can see the undissolved ingredients settling in the bottom. I always make sure my Sodium Carbonate is anhydrous by baking it in the oven at 250F for a few hours. Store it in an air tight container. This can have the biggest affect on your development.

Develop at 20 degrees C for 20 minutes. Agitate first 30 seconds then 15 seconds every minute. I follow development with a good water rinse at 20 degrees C followed by a normal Fix then whatever rinse is recommended by your fix instructions.

Warning - Adding the Ascorbic Acid first will result in a foam explosion, always slowly add Sodium Carbonate first while mixing.

Here's some of my results: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60348236@N07/albums/72157680888508674

 

[MattKing]

To the OP:
In case you were wondering, the preceding is what is known as "thread drift".
And the only thing I will say about beer and developing film in your kitchen, is that it is important not to drink too much beer before you develop film in the kitchen.

 

[Donald Qualls]

it is important not to drink too much beer before you develop film in the kitchen

And even more important not to drink the beer after making it into developer...

 

[MattKing]

I had a teeny tiny little taste of D-76 (1+1) when I was a little kid and I turned out just fine

Are you saying you developed without problems?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Or one can test the pH with this:

https://www.empressgin.com/

This gin and McHenry's Butterfly Gin use botanicals from the same plant that Phenolphthalein is derived from. Pour some of this in a glass, it is dark blue. As tonic water is added it changes to purple [violet] around pH 7.0. Add more tonic water and it turns pink as the drink becomes acidic.

This is a perfect way to relax after a day developing film or making enlargement prints.

 

[BAC1967]

And even more important not to drink the beer after making it into developer...

If you can get past the stale beer stink I can only imagine, if you can keep it down, it would taste like crap.

 

[AgX]

Or one can test the pH with this:
View attachment 286058

https://www.empressgin.com/

This gin and McHenry's Butterfly Gin use botanicals from the same plant that Phenolphthalein is derived from. Pour some of this in a glass, it is dark blue. As tonic water is added it changes to purple [violet] around pH 7.0. Add more tonic water and it turns pink as the drink becomes acidic.

This is a perfect way to relax after a day developing film or making enlargement prints.

That is a very interesting drink I never heard of. I do not drink Gin, but this might be a fun experience.

However:
-) Phenolphthalein is in the EU on the list of to be banned substances, it is listed as being carcinogenic

-) Phenolphthalein is a synthezised substance. I do not know of a plant that contains it.

You likely mix up Phenolphthalein with Lackmus, which indeed is of vegetabile origine and which may make such colour change in case the gin is alkaline from the start.

 

[removed account4]

That is a very interesting drink I never heard of. I do not drink Gin, but this might be a fun experience.

However:
-) Phenolphthalein is in the EU on the list of to be banned substances, it is listed as being carcinogenic

-) Phenolphthalein is a synthezised substance. I do not know of a plant that contains it.

You likely mix up Phenolphthalein with Lackmus, which indeed is of vegetabile origine and which may make such colour change in case the gin is alkaline from the start.

many fruits / vegetables / plants have (natural) phenols in them
if you put a slice of tomato on photo paper in the sun it will do more than make a photogram, the phenols in the tomato react with the paper like a (slow) developer.

 

[Agulliver]

I am sure that I've tasted ID-11 and Ilford fixer back in the 80s. I had no developmental problems

Though I definitely turned out unusual.

 

[faberryman]

Are there any image quality benefits to developing black and white film in coffee or beer? If not, what is the allure?

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

if you put a slice of tomato on photo paper in the sun it will do more than make a photogram, the phenols in the tomato react with the paper like a (slow) developer.

Just tried it, works faster with some baking soda sprinkled on the tomato first: Tomatonol. So tomatoes have dangerous phenols in them - I suppose the responsible thing would be to place a wild hysterical call to a bio-hazmat removal team to come dispose of my tomatoes.