Beginner darkroom questions... Tips and tricks welcome!

saman13 · Oct 3, 2017

I know there are a bunch of "beginner darkroom" threads on this site and I've read through a lot of them. I've been asking a few questions here and there but decided to just hopefully get everything in one place.

I've developed and enlarged before but while I was in college and had access to all the equipment and chemicals I would ever need. I just graduated (so funds are very tight) and am now looking to set up a darkroom for the first time. I purchased a fairly complete darkroom setup including an Omega B-8 enlarger, trays, lights etc.

Now, what I need is advice on chemicals. I am setting this up in a very small bathroom (the only one in my apartment) so size is a factor. The fewer chemicals the better for both storage and cost. I'm wanting to start developing my film by using replenished XTOL. So, here is the list of chemicals I know I need:

Developer: XTOL for film, Eco Pro for paper
Fixer: Eco Pro Clearfix Neutral Rapid
Stop: I was just going to use water

Now, how necessary is a hypo clearing agent and photoflo? The fewer chemicals I have to purchase, the more paper I can buy, which is GOOD!

I still have some Ilford RC and FB 8x10 paper from my classes so those are what I will be using for now.

Am I missing any vital chemicals? Any tips or tricks for setting up a darkroom for the first time? I can see how easy it would be to get carried away buying equipment and chemicals to start a darkroom which is something I really want to avoid. In fact it is something I have to avoid (my bank account frowns). So, any advice on how to keep costs down? I'm super excited to get this show on the road and start printing again. Nothing beats watching that image appear on the paper. Never gets old!

I'm such a big fan of this website because I don't know how else I would have all of these questions answered by people with such a wealth of information. So please Photrio, unload your collective knowledge on me!

trendland · Oct 3, 2017

Best wishes with your plan.
Best advice : Don't try to avoid failures.
It is much more easier to learn by doing
it wrong then to read tons of books.
If you have the experience and you failed to very special workflow - then you need
special information - then you have to read some books.
I began with fashion photography 3 years ago and beware of I never read a book about.Everything was new.
I rent a model and began to work.
And first results were indeed best results.

with regards

tedr1 · Oct 3, 2017

I enjoy learning from books, they allow one to study at any speed, they cover the whole subject, they are accessible for immediate reference. One I can recommend is Horensteins Black & White Photography, available used for a few dollars.

PS photflo is good to have for rinsing film, one small bottle will last a lifetime. Hypoclear is optional for fiber paper and unnecessary for RC paper.

Svenedin · Oct 3, 2017

Stop is cheap if you use 60% acetic acid diluted 1+50. Some people use "white" (colourless) vinegar (which is acetic acid but may contain impurities unsuited to photography). Using stop means your developing ceases within seconds. This aids consistency and will also prolong the life of your fixer.

saman13 · Oct 3, 2017

Ah, another question. What to do with chemicals after using them? I don't necessarily mean disposal. If I'm replenishing XTOL, I'll just pour it into my working bottle. Do I have to use paper developer one shot? So, mix up the amount I need, use it for one session, then throw it away.
How about fixer? Do you use the same dilution for both film and paper? If so, do you mix up enough to cover paper in a tray (~1.5L in an 8x10 tray I'd reckon?) and put it in another bottle? Then, for both film and paper do you pour out the amount you need for each and then pour it all back into that bottle you mixed it all up in?
Last, do you have to discard the photoflo solution after you use it or can you keep using the same solution?

Svenedin · Oct 3, 2017

1) Most paper developers have a short life once mixed as a working solution. In an open tray it might last 24 hours, longer if poured into a tightly capped bottle. You will know it has gone bad because it will turn brown and stop working. The exception is Liquidol, which has a much longer life but I have never used as it is not available in the UK.
2) Fixer is usually used stronger for film (e.g 1+4) than for paper (e.g 1+9). You can use the film strength for paper but not the other way round. Higher dilutions for paper take longer to fix and for fibre based paper this leads to longer washing times. Check the instructions for the product you are using. You can re-use fixer for film by pouring into a tightly capped bottle but you need to record how many films have gone through the fixer so as not to exceed the capacity. I write on the label. You can also re-use fixer for paper but again you need to record how many sheets have been through it and if it has sat in an open tray for a significant length of time it will go bad. It is wise to be cautious with capacities for fixer. Your prints might look fine but if they are not fixed properly they will deteriorate in the future and you will regret it. If a film fails to fix properly you will see this (the film will not clear properly) and you can fix it again in fresh fixer.
3) There's no point re-using photflo. You only use a tiny quantity in the final rinse water and a bottle will last a very long time.

Sirius Glass · Oct 3, 2017

Hypo clearing agent is good to save water washing prints.
PhotoFlo helps film dry without streaks. Do not throw a drop in the water; follow the instructions exactly. Never use a squeegee; instead use a paper towel draw the water off the bottom corner of the film.

saman13 · Oct 3, 2017

Okay, so photoflo will be added to my cart. I always used it in school but didn't know how necessary it was.

I have a few questions about the actual printing process. My professor had me do a test strip for every single print to judge the correct exposure. Is this really necessary when printing in the same session? This ends up consuming a lot of time in paper. In my mind at least, it seems as though if you have the same density in your negatives (same light meter judging exposure) then your exposure times while printing should all be about the same. Do y'all do test strips for every single print you make?
Second question: how precise do you have to be when developing the paper? Is it as critical as developing film? I've read that for the paper developer I will be using the dev times are 60-120 seconds. That seems like a large range.
Third question, maybe related to the second: how do you "develop by observation?" How do you know when it is done?

Thanks for the patience...

MattKing · Oct 3, 2017

saman13 said:
My professor had me do a test strip for every single print to judge the correct exposure. Is this really necessary when printing in the same session? This ends up consuming a lot of time in paper. In my mind at least, it seems as though if you have the same density in your negatives (same light meter judging exposure) then your exposure times while printing should all be about the same. Do y'all do test strips for every single print you make?

It is possible to use the printing time for one negative to print the next, but it doesn't always give the results you might want. Two similarly exposed negatives might, for example, present skin tones that are slightly different (due to movement of the subjects and other factors) so if you are trying to optimize the skin tones, the optimized print times might differ.
I find it most useful to let my experience with one negative inform me about the likely printing time for the next. I then use small test strips placed in the most important area of the scene, and do a test exposures over a narrow range around the exposure that worked for the previous negative.
I'll fine tune my exposure to as little as a 1/12 stop difference (although 1/6 stop is more common).

saman13 said:
how precise do you have to be when developing the paper? Is it as critical as developing film? I've read that for the paper developer I will be using the dev times are 60-120 seconds. That seems like a large range.

You want to choose a development time for paper that ensures a good, full black and gives good contrast. For me, that time is generally in the middle of the manufacturer's suggested range. With two exceptions, I would recommend using that time and doing so repeatedly, without variation (during a session). The exceptions are that if you are choosing which time to use repeatedly, you may have good reason to either choose a time nearer the short end of the range (e.g. when you need to do a lot of prints in a short time) or a time nearer the long end of the range (e.g. when you are processing multiple prints together, with shuffle agitation, and wish to minimize the effect of slightly different development times).
The important thing to remember is that you should normally stick to a single time.
The other exception is something known as factorial development. It involves lengthening the time to compensate as the developer gets more used up or if the temperature goes down. It would be best to put that subject on hold for now, until you are more practiced.

saman13 said:
Third question, maybe related to the second: how do you "develop by observation?" How do you know when it is done?

You probably shouldn't do this. Once you have a lot more experience, you may want to try it a bit.
It was a favourite technique for newspaper photographers working on tight time deadlines. For them and their purposes, it was fine that it did not lead to great prints!

Kawaiithulhu · Oct 3, 2017

When starting, your main goal should be to be consistent with your chemistry mixes and timings. You should take notes on the mix and times so that when you get a really good result you will know how you got there. Learn to think like a scientist, when something doesn't end up like you wanted try and deduce what was different from your best work and change only one thing at a time to make the new piece better. When you have consistent technique and notes then this process of improving a shot will be like an adventure instead of a frustration.

While you're developing (ahem) your skills learn how to ask quality questions (like the one you started this thread with) on what you don't understand so you can get great answers back from the forums here!

saman13 · Oct 4, 2017

Just picked up my first darkroom setup and now all I’m lacking are chemicals.
The Omega B-8 included is Very dirty and has a fair bit of rust but I’ll see if I can get that cleaned up this evening. It is fully functional except for the gear used to lift it up and down. It can still be done manually but I’ll see if I can fix that gear to make it more convenient.

It also included 3x each of trays for 5x7, 8x10, 11x14 and 16x20, a paper safe, a bunch of old developer that I won’t even think about using, Paterson 2 roll tank, grain focuser, thermometer, tongs, 2 safelights, and a Gralab 300 timer.

I was able to get it all for $40. So maybe I’ll be able to start my Darkroom for under $100 including chemicals!

If anyone has any advice on cleaning up that enlarger, fire away.

MattKing · Oct 4, 2017

Looks like there is still lots of fun in that one!
If any of the developer is print developer, it can't hurt to try it.
Go to the hardware store and show the photos to someone who might know about rust cleaners.
And carefully inspect the wiring for damage. That advice isn't particular in any way to enlargers!

Svenedin · Oct 4, 2017

Remember to put some negative sleeves on your shopping list. You need to store negatives carefully. The easiest to use are the clear type (e.g Clearfile) because you can print a contact sheet without removing the negatives from the sleeve.

saman13 · Oct 4, 2017

The enlarger has a sticker on it from USF so it definitely got its fair share of use (and abuse?). I'm hoping I can get that crank working but, like I said, I can still raise and lower it manually.

saman13 · Oct 4, 2017

Svenedin said:
Remember to put some negative sleeves on your shopping list. You need to store negatives carefully. The easiest to use are the clear type (e.g Clearfile) because you can print a contact sheet without removing the negatives from the sleeve.

Luckily I still have a bunch from my classes, as well as some leftover paper.

Right now in my Freestyle cart (trying to use them more because they sponsor Photrio, B&H doesn't):
XTOL to make 5L
Eco Pro Paper developer -1qt
Eco Pro Neutral fixer -1qt
Arista Flo -4oz

Anything crucial I'm missing?

MattKing said:
If any of the developer is print developer, it can't hurt to try it.

There are 4 packets of Microdol-X for film and 1 packet of Dektol for paper but the Dektol has a small puncture in the bag so i'd assume it's shot.

MattKing · Oct 4, 2017

saman13 said:
Anything crucial I'm missing?

With the exception of Arista Flo, don't just buy one of each if you are relying on internet purchases
Buy two of each now, and buy new packages when you open the second package.
If it were me, I would buy the Kodak Photo flo - that bottle will last you for years, and there are lots of people with experience with that specific package.

saman13 · Oct 4, 2017

MattKing said:
With the exception of Arista Flo, don't just buy one of each if you are relying on internet purchases
Buy two of each now, and buy new packages when you open the second package.

In case I get a dud?

MattKing · Oct 4, 2017

saman13 said:
In case I get a dud?

There is nothing more frustrating than being ready to do darkroom work and realizing that you will need to order chemicals and wait for them to arrive before you start, unless it is to be in the midst of doing darkroom work and realizing that your chemicals have reached capacity, and that you will have to stop with the work unfinished, order chemicals and wait for them to arrive before you can continue.
The advice is slightly different if you are fortunate enough to be able to buy things from a local store.
For where it matters, buying in slightly larger batches can help you save on shipping as well.

BobMarvin11225 · Oct 4, 2017

RE: the "broken crank handle, for raising and lowering the enlarger; there's an Allen screw
that holds it to the shaft; maybe it's loose, or missing. I had the same problem with mine when I first bought it. BTW, make sure the set screw, that can be used to tighten the enlarger carriage on the upright girder, is loosened when you raise or lower it.

ignatiu5 · Oct 4, 2017

saman13 said:
Luckily I still have a bunch from my classes, as well as some leftover paper.

Right now in my Freestyle cart (trying to use them more because they sponsor Photrio, B&H doesn't):
XTOL to make 5L
Eco Pro Paper developer -1qt
Eco Pro Neutral fixer -1qt
Arista Flo -4oz

Anything crucial I'm missing?

There are 4 packets of Microdol-X for film and 1 packet of Dektol for paper but the Dektol has a small puncture in the bag so i'd assume it's shot.

I'm going to disagree with MattKing about the print developer and suggest all fresh chemicals and paper, at least to start. Since it's been a while for you, you will make mistakes, as we all did/do. Could be bad equipment, technique, chemistry, or paper. Eliminating as many variables as possible makes troubleshooting much easier. It will likely save you time, money and frustration in the long run.
I've lived in Tampa, and it is miserably humid. How much the chemistry stored in an attic or basement has been affected is a big unknown. Microdol is cheap. XTOL is cheap. RC paper in modest sizes is relatively cheap. At least in the beginning, when you get murky or foggy or black or blank prints, you'll know what it isn't.

tedr1 · Oct 4, 2017

I agree about using fresh materials to eliminate uncontrolled variables with old stock, in my opinion this is a false economy.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 4, 2017

Keep your enlarger and work area clean. It's much easier to clean your negatives and enlarger than to spot your prints. Have good ventilation and music in the darkroom.

Svenedin · Oct 4, 2017

I wouldn't use the old chemicals either. The OP says the Dektol bag is punctured so that is useless. As for the old film Dev, why take a risk when he is ordering Xtol in any case?

Svenedin · Oct 4, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Keep your enlarger and work area clean. It's much easier to clean your negatives and enlarger than to spot your prints. Have good ventilation and music in the darkroom.

Music is good. I put my iPhone in a black plastic bag (the type paper comes in). Music without fear of stray light and much cheaper than bluetooth speakers. Dust is the great enemy of decent prints. Canned air (e.g Dust Off) is very useful. It is quite cheap in cases of 6 in Costco.

MattKing · Oct 4, 2017

No disagreement here about the old chemicals.
The only reason that print developer might be worth trying is that if it isn't working, then all you have wasted is a bit of time and a little bit of paper.
If, for example, that Dektol was in the old packaging (sealed cans) it could very well be fine.
But its best to start with new and fresh.

Beginner darkroom questions... Tips and tricks welcome!

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ignatiu5

tedr1

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