Basic but important newbie questions!

[RattyMouse]

What you want Photo Flo to achieve is to relieve the water of its surface tension. You don't need much to do that. If you use too much wetting agent, it may leave residue behind that is unwanted.

PhotoFlo is supposed to be used at a 1:200 concentration, so if you have 500ml of water, you need 2.5ml of PhotoFlo. There used to be a very concentrated PhotoFlo 600, which was supposed to be used at 1:600. Tough to measure such small quantities.

I have a pipette that can accurately measure 2.5 mls. That will generate a LOT of foam in the final rinse. A LOT. That is why I questioned the person who said that if you are seeing foam, you are using too much. A few drops gets you foam, much less than 2.5 mls.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I guess it depends on how you use it. I keep tempered water in a separate bowl, and I add the appropriate amount of wetting agent to it.
Then off the reel I see saw the length of the film through the solution, ten times. No bubbles.

 

[MattKing]

I have a pipette that can accurately measure 2.5 mls. That will generate a LOT of foam in the final rinse. A LOT. That is why I questioned the person who said that if you are seeing foam, you are using too much. A few drops gets you foam, much less than 2.5 mls.

You are probably agitating too much. And it isn't a "rinse", it is a "soak".

Here is what Kodak suggests for the 30 seconds the film is supposed to be in the mixed solution: "Provide gentle agitation for 5 seconds of the total time. To reduce drying scum, mix KODAK PHOTO-FLO Solution with distilled water in areas that have hard water."

You should also mix the working solution up gently - stirring isn't required.

I mix my working solution up during the development stage.

 

[RattyMouse]

I guess it depends on how you use it. I keep tempered water in a separate bowl, and I add the appropriate amount of wetting agent to it.
Then off the reel I see saw the length of the film through the solution, ten times. No bubbles.

Do you mix in the photo flo? This is a surfactant and requires mechanical energy to disperse through out the fluid. It will not arrange into micelles without mixing energy.

I get enormous bubbles just gently swirling the mixture. Then when adding a reel into the tank, at least 1 inch of bubbles forms. The film comes out coated in bubbles.

 

[RattyMouse]

You are probably agitating too much. And it isn't a "rinse", it is a "soak".

Here is what Kodak suggests for the 30 seconds the film is supposed to be in the mixed solution: "Provide gentle agitation for 5 seconds of the total time. To reduce drying scum, mix KODAK PHOTO-FLO Solution with distilled water in areas that have hard water."

You should also mix the working solution up gently - stirring isn't required.

I mix my working solution up during the development stage.

I dont actually mix the photo flo in. I add the drops into the tank and then add the water at a very slow rate. Very slow. Also, I point the water towards to the side of the tank so that it hits there first and then drains into the tank. This absorbs most of the mechanical energy. The movement of the water filling the tank is what mixes in the photo flo but even with my precautions, it still forms foam. I could not really add water much more slowly as my tap is almost off.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Do you mix in the photo flo? This is a surfactant and requires mechanical energy to disperse through out the fluid. It will not arrange into micelles without mixing energy.

I get enormous bubbles just gently swirling the mixture. Then when adding a reel into the tank, at least 1 inch of bubbles forms. The film comes out coated in bubbles.

I don't use PhotoFlo. I use Sprint End Run.

My negatives dry without a single spot on them. I'm not making that up either. A lot of my prints require zero spotting.

No swirling or mixing, I just lightly swish around with my finger, to avoid making bubbles.

 

[RattyMouse]

I don't use PhotoFlo. I use Sprint End Run.

My negatives dry without a single spot on them. I'm not making that up either. A lot of my prints require zero spotting.

No swirling or mixing, I just lightly swish around with my finger, to avoid making bubbles.

Ah, OK, so our experiences are different.

I never get drying marks either, nor do I get photo flo residues. I just cannot reconcile how anyone could not get foam. I get plenty of foam using 3-4 drops of photo flow!

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Ah, OK, so our experiences are different.

I never get drying marks either, nor do I get photo flo residues. I just cannot reconcile how anyone could not get foam. I get plenty of foam using 3-4 drops of photo flow!

I think most people are using less than what Kodak recommends, and still have good results.

My reason for not putting wetting agent in the tank and among the reels is that I am unable to clean the reels well enough to avoid getting bubbles in the developer next time I process film.

Many here favor the Edwal LFN product.

Kodak Photo Flo 200 has instructions for how to use it here, just for the record:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/aj3/aj3.pdf

 

[richard ide]

I put my reels (stainless) through the dishwasher every couple of months. No buildup of residue. I have a half gallon of Photo Flo 1:600. I mix it about 1:3000 and give my film a water rinse for a couple of seconds before hanging up to dry. Never a problem with spots. Guess I should order another bottle before I run out. ;<)

 

[winger]

I add the Photoflo to the water, not the water to the Photoflo. I think that's why you're getting so much foam. When I've seen significant bubbles, I've had poor drying and water spots. So I keep the amount of Photoflo to a minimum.

 

[MattKing]

I add the Photoflo to the water, not the water to the Photoflo. I think that's why you're getting so much foam. When I've seen significant bubbles, I've had poor drying and water spots. So I keep the amount of Photoflo to a minimum.

Almost +1 - I do add a little water to the mix at the end.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I put my reels (stainless) through the dishwasher every couple of months. No buildup of residue. I have a half gallon of Photo Flo 1:600. I mix it about 1:3000 and give my film a water rinse for a couple of seconds before hanging up to dry. Never a problem with spots. Guess I should order another bottle before I run out. ;<)

Good for you. I don't own a dish washer, so I can't go that route.

 

[pdeeh]

FWIW, I went the route of trying to use as little Ilfotol as possible in deionised water final rinse (following "internet advice") with inconsistent results and often drying marks.

Then I did something quite radical and - GASP! - followed the manufacturer's advice.

With 25ml of Ilfotol in a 5l container of DI water (i.e. Ilford's recommended 1:200 dilution), it seems to foam quite a bit, but the result has now been perfectly clean negatives, every single time

 

[Simonh82]

One factor to bear in mind is the harness of people's water. The hard water in London rarely gives me many bubbles with photoflo and the same is true of shampoo or bath bubbles. When I visit my parents who have a water soften I'm always surprised when I use my normal amount of shampoo and end up looking like some kind of comedy bubble monster.

 

[markbarendt]

[*]Can I develop ANY B&W film (not chromogenic C-41) with ANY developer? Meaning can I develop a Tri-X with ID-11 for example?

Yes

[*]If the answer on the above is yes, were do I find the necessary dilution instructions?

On the instructions included with the developer

[*]Do the developers come in different versions according to the film speed, or there Is just one and you play with the volume, dilution etc?

No, but: you may choose different dilutions to manage development time. More dilute solutions take longer, more concentrated solutions develop faster.

[*]Is it safe to assume that using same brand film+developer will produce the best result?

No. "Best" is a purely subjective decision/feeling. Some here use coffee as a base for their developer, some use the generic versions, some off-brands. It doesn't matter as long as you get the result you want.

The advantage for you in using something like ID-11 or D76 or Xtol is that there are a lot of people here that also use them, if you have a question, you can get an answer. Right now I'm experimenting with RolloPyro and the user base is pretty small, tougher for me to get an answer.

[*]Is "stopping" using just water and not a dedicated stopper advisable?

Consistency is the most important thing, using a real stop bath can help with consistency. It does also protect the fixer.

If I were going on vacation and planning to develop film along the way, personally I'd leave the stop bath at home and use water. At home I do use stop bath.

[*]I was told I should choose 1-2 films and developer and stick with them, trying out different variations of exposures/developing, good advice?

Yes, photography is a system made up of many parts. Any change you make, anywhere in the system, has an effect on the end result/the print.

For example this includes lenses. Holga cameras are a lot of fun, but my Holga makes low contrast images so I've learned that I need to add little extra development when I use it, same for my 150SF lens on my Mamiya RB67. Most of the rest of my lenses make more snappy images and don't require extra development.

The problem is that if you are switching films, developers, papers, blah, blah, blah, at the same time you are switching lenses (or whatever other variable), it becomes a real problem figuring out which piece of the puzzle is causing a problem or a success.

The advice to stick with one film has two benefits/intents:
a) eliminate variables
b) learn what that film is capable of and most films today can do a very good job in most any situation, the differences are not in "quality", only in "character".

[*]Was thinking of starting out with either Tri-X 400 or T-Max 400, any good developers recommended for them?

ID-11 is a great choice, it's good enough that you might never need nor want to change. D-76 is just as good, in fact nearly identical to ID-11 in the way it works. Xtol is good too, Tmax, DD-X, ...

To be blunt here, when starting out, it doesn't matter that much. Yes, developers can make a difference in the print but, to exploit the differences you gotta be pretty good at everything else.

I would suggest that if you do choose two films, they should be significantly different in ISO rating. So choose Tri-X or Tmax 400, not both. IMO it won't matter which of these you actually start with either. Then depending on your style/subject preferences maybe Tmax 100 or FP4+ or Delta 3200 as the second film.

[*]Do you recommend I should go for the 5Ltr developer or the 1Ltr will suffice for some time?

5

 

[Jaf-Photo]

Re the photoflo discussion, I mix it in advance and then pour the solution slowly into the tank. Agitation is with the Paterson twirly stick. No bubbles.

 

[rubyfalls]

I soak in photo-flo (8 drops per 500 ml), then hang the negatives and squirt them down with a VERY dilute photo-flo solution (maybe 1-2 drops per 500 ml). Works just fine for me. I've never had a problem with spotting. Perhaps the squirting is entirely unnecessary, but my five-year-old enjoys it (it is her darkroom "chore").

 

[rubyfalls]

I also use distilled water as our tap water is positively chunky.

 

[RattyMouse]

I add the Photoflo to the water, not the water to the Photoflo. I think that's why you're getting so much foam. When I've seen significant bubbles, I've had poor drying and water spots. So I keep the amount of Photoflo to a minimum.

I gave this a shot over the weekend and it works much better. No foam at all!

Thanks!

 

[fotch]

I guess it depends on how you use it. I keep tempered water in a separate bowl, and I add the appropriate amount of wetting agent to it.
Then off the reel I see saw the length of the film through the solution, ten times. No bubbles.

Me to, that keeps the reel out of the photo flow.