Barry Thornton's NoZone Opinions

[craigclu]

Years ago, Barry Thornton put together this piece related to his approach to film exposure. He freely shared it, sent it to people and posted it on his web site when it existed. I occasionally read it and enjoy its "re-centering" of my exposure thoughts.

Hopefully, it's not regarded in some copyrighted fashion and if there's a problem, please remove the post, moderators.... I've converted my old WordPerfect copy to a pdf for easier sharing.

 

[ic-racer]

"If the shadows are mainly all black when there should be some detail, you have generally underexposed the negatives"-B.T.

I agree, with some experience you can teach yourself to identify a negative that is underexposed. It's nice to have a densitometer to 'double check.' I find it much easier to just look at the negative, rather than a proof. Looking at a proof involves too many other variables for me.

 

[Bob F.]

The website still exists (www.barrythornton.com) courtesy of Andy Hollingsworth.

 

[MarcoGiardini]

I have read it many times, but due to my poor english some of the steps are not clear.
I'll read once more and than ask you what is not clear. I know this is a forum and not an English course but.... anyway....maybe someone can give a double help: improve my english and improve my prints.
Thanks

marco

 

[Ian Grant]

Marco, unfortunately the English used is quite difficult, in fact very difficult, certainly suitable for only the most advanced students learning English.

It would certainly be a very difficult piece to explain, via the internet, as Barry is really playing with words throughout. You'd be better of raeding Ansel Adam's the Negative if it's printed in Italian.

Ian

 

[MarcoGiardini]

Thanks Ian, yes i own the AA "trilogy" but i do not remember i have read the same concepts.
try to resuming: get the film base developed (but not the part with the pictures) and expose it in small stripes by 2 seconds to identify the minimum time for maximum black. Than us it to contact the whole film stripes.
From this point i can better identify the ISO of the film (so push or pull the film and develop consequently) accordingly also to the highlights areas on the contact print.
Is it true?

marco

 

[Ian Grant]

Marco, this was the method I used to do all my Zone system tests. I have it all written out in a far simpler manner but unfortunately in the UK, and not here with me.

First you find your optimum printing time, for your chosen paper & grade - usually grade 2, then you make your test prints at that exposure from the negatives.

I'm sure there are far simpler explanations available on the internet, hopefully someone can give you a link to a site.

Ian

 

[frdrx]

What a beautiful article! As an exercise I pimped the typesetting up a bit using LaTeX, so that I enjoy reading it even more.

 

[MarcoGiardini]

i miss the pictures!

 

[pentaxuser]

The website still exists (www.barrythornton.com) courtesy of Andy Hollingsworth.

Bob I think it was you who pointed me in the direction of this site and very good it is too. So good that I have it in I.E. favourites but trying it tonight I failed to reach it. Contacting directly from the URL in your post produced the same response and Firefox was exactly the same.

I hope it is a temporary thing and that Andy Hollingworth hasn't decided that he can no longer afford the time to keep it going.

pentaxuser

 

[Bob F.]

Bob I think it was you who pointed me in the direction of this site and very good it is too. So good that I have it in I.E. favourites but trying it tonight I failed to reach it. Contacting directly from the URL in your post produced the same response and Firefox was exactly the same.

I hope it is a temporary thing and that Andy Hollingworth hasn't decided that he can no longer afford the time to keep it going.

pentaxuser

Very odd. I checked it when I posted (I always check links in preview mode 'cos sometimes they get formatted incorrectly) and it was up then but it is down to me now too. Hopefully just a glitch...

Bob.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

The link worked for me just fine. Look at the very bottom of the page for the link to the article "unzone".

BTW, this method is just a simplified version of the visual method for calibrating the Zone system I use that was published by Minor White, Richard Zakia and Peter Lawrence in their book "The (New) Zone System Manual." Their system uses the same "proper proofing time" and recommends making "Zone Rulers" for each development scheme.

I have always found the visual approach more practical than the densitometer-based one, as well as demanding much less in the way of equipment and time.

I have adapted this system to my needs and developed a method of determining film speed and development by making Zone Rulers. It takes three sheets of film and a little time, and takes into account the entire system, from shutter through enlarging paper, since it is done by comparing contact prints.

I recommend the book above heartily.

Best,

Doremus Scudder

www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes it is working again. Just tried it via your URL, Bob. Hooray! Must have been a temporary glitch. I had high hopes as I noted that Doremus got through at just after 9:00am today. Unless Andy works way into the night or very early on a week-end morning it looks as if it may have corrected itself without human intervention.


Doremus. In brief terms what's a zone ruler? Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[pentaxuser]

Not much of interest for me tonight on APUG so had a long look at the late Barry Thornton's site. For those who haven't bothered, it's well worth a look. Interesting article on Verichrome Pan with developing times in a good range of developers questions about which have arisen before on APUG.

Under articles there's one on Ilford Multigrade Cooltone paper. Interestingly Barry gives reasons which might help explain why Ilford dropped its Cooltone developer in terms of its commercial viability.

Now a question: What was or still is Fuji SS100 film? Again Barry is impressed in an article on it and it was available then from Silverprint. Did this become Fuji Acros?

Finally a thought. His last book seems to have been "Elements of Transition" This appears to be his more or less whole hearted conversion to digital or at least to hybrid and this is backed by his praises for its ability to "print" negs which he had hitherto regarded as virtually unprintable using "fine print wet darkroom methods.

Had he not suddenly and tragically died I wonder if he would have continued with analogue work or by now have abandoned it altogether such that we couldn't have counted on him being a subscriber here on APUG? Certainly he seemed to be moving away from the wet darkroom side although he had invested so much time and effort into film processing and earning an income from that aspect that it was probably unlikely that he would have foresaken film.

pentaxuser

 

[Dave Miller]

You are correct with regard to “Elements of Transition”. I have a copy which I brought at a time when I thought that digital printing still had some merit. I’m sure Barry would have embraced the digital field as most UK based professionals have had to do, if for no other reason than that’s what their client’s want.
I must add that I have always found his work, both written and pictorial, of interest and thought provoking, although not to be slavishly followed.

 

[Michael W]

Now a question: What was or still is Fuji SS100 film? Again Barry is impressed in an article on it and it was available then from Silverprint. Did this become Fuji Acros?

Fuji have two B&W 100 ISO films - Acros & Neopan SS.
I've never used the SS but assumed it was a slower version of Neopan 400, i.e. traditional grain rather than the T grain of Acros. You can buy the SS from megaperls in Japan. Looks like it's only available in 35mm.

 

[pentaxuser]

Fuji have two B&W 100 ISO films - Acros & Neopan SS.
I've never used the SS but assumed it was a slower version of Neopan 400, i.e. traditional grain rather than the T grain of Acros. You can buy the SS from megaperls in Japan. Looks like it's only available in 35mm.

Thanks for that. I wonder if anyone on APUG has used both? It would be nice to have a compare and contrast article on them, although even if Neopan SS had some clear qualities not possessed by Acros, I doubt that I could get hold of any. I don't think I have ever seen it in the U.K.

pentaxuser

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Zone Ruler

Pentaxuser,

A little late getting back to you, but here is the answer to your question.

A Zone Ruler is simply a "ruler" which contains actual squares of photographic paper in Zones 1-9 or whatever, in one-stop steps from black to white. They need to be made using "proper proofing times" in order to be helpful.

First film speed is determined, then development time determined to place Zone VIII where you want it (in Zone VIII for N, in Zone IX for N+1, etc.). Then, film is exposed on Zones I through IX for N, (fewer or more Zones for N+ and N- developments respectively). This film is then printed at "proper proofing time" (usually contact printed) onto photo paper and, voilà, you have ten shades from black to white that shows exactly how that film/development/paper combination respond. Squares of paper for each Zone can be mounted on a long piece of board to make the Zone Ruler. Zone Rulers are handy for people just learning the Zone System to help them visualize just what, say, Zone IV looks like.

Zone Rulers are also useful, since the middle "Zones" on the paper rarely ever correspond to the ideal, and vary quiet a bit depending on the combination. Knowing that a particular combination separates a lot in the mid-tones, but has less shadow separation (or vice-versa) can be helpful when visualizing and metering.

Of course, I use sheet film and a spot meter to determine the development for each sheet, but making Zone Rulers can also be a helpful exercise with roll film to get an idea of exactly how your particular combination renders tones across the scale from black to white.

Hope this helps,

Doremus Scudder

www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[rmolson]

I am almost ashamed to admit this ,but for nearly thirty years I was a working professional. And could not really grasp AA’s zone system, Then one day I picked up a copy of Fred Pickers newsletter and it was like a religious conversion! And to this day I still follow the concepts even though I only work in 35mm anymore. The proper proof as Picker called it and Barry Thornton describes in grater detail will tell you at one glance if you are in the ball park with your exposure and development. If you have no shadow detail in the proof and the you are at max black within exposure then your IE is too high If your highlights are blown your development is too long. If your highlight are all gray but the shadows are alright your development is too short. The rest is testing to find the correct combination. .