Barcelona Airport Scanners

Philippe-Georges

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Actually, it's not this one (radio active-) airport scanner that will destroy your film.
As light is cumulative (an X-ray exposure is adding 'light' too): multiple scans AND the initial exposure (made by you) all together, that does the damage.
The engineers are stating that their scanners are safe, which is correct as they test by simply passing the film just once, and then developing it.

But, suppose that your journey to Chicago begins in Frankfurt with a transfer in London, arrival in New-York where there is an other transfer to Chicago.
To how many scans will the film in your luggage be submitted? Then, at your arrival, the film is 'normally' exposed during you visit, after which you return to Frankfurt...
These films might be exposed 5 to 7 times!

Yes, the airport scanners are safe, but just for ONE (X-ray) exposure (perhaps two)...
 

BrianShaw

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Philippe-Georges said:
...
The engineers are stating that their scanners are safe, which is correct as they test by simply passing the film just once, and then developing it.
...
Click to expand...

The "official testing" in 2008 that led to the TSA (and other) statements was quite a bit more rigorous than that. Here, from the official report of one joint industry study. (I've heard of a similar study in the EU/UK but have never seen an official report, only vague summaries.) It's worth noting that the scanner dosage on the traditional x-ray machines, in the United States, at least, remained virtually unchanged throughout their entire manufacturing period and were carefully managed within specs during usage.




See thumbnails for actual summary data of the ISO 400 color negative trials .
 

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abruzzi

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After my trip to Spain in May/June I shipped my ~22 shot rolls as well as another 20 or so unexposed rolls via DHL. I attached the Kodakwarning label about X-rays. When I received the at home, there was evidence that the box had been opened and manually inspected, but no X-ray damage.
 

halfaman

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You can try Carmencita Lab in Barcelona, they have a very good repututation and I think they have also an express service at least for C41 developing.
 

GregY

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Philippe-Georges said:
Then, why do people complain about damaged film?
What is really going on?
Click to expand...

Philippe, I've never personally had films affected by the old X-Ray scanners, but I have professional photographer friends who even before scanners just bought & had their film processed when they had jobs in Europe because they did have issues.
Re: your post about # of scans.... it's pretty typical to remain within the airport secure zones when you're changing flights, so unless you stop over in N.Y. on your Frankfurt-Chicago trip... your films will only be scanned getting on the first flight.
With the new CT scanners, I flew Calgary-Paris direct and brought film (hand inspection available & old tech XRay scanners in YYC). I had my film processed before returning.
I prefer using staining developers. So next time i may have 1/2 processed in Europe and try mailing the remainder.
 
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BrianShaw

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Philippe-Georges said:
Then, why do people complain about damaged film?
What is really going on?
Click to expand...

I've been paying attention to this for several decades. Several things seem to be going on... pick one or more of these:
  1. Actual damage caused by x-ray machines from
    1. more xray exposures than recommended/remembered
    2. checked baggage CT
  2. Bad results that might be more resonably be attributed to
    1. old/expired film
    2. bad photograhic/exposure technique
    3. bad processing
  3. Neurotic fear of potential damage
  4. Baseless assumptions and failure to listen to or believe real, factual, science-based data/information
  5. Extreme precautionionary concerns for a variety of reasons
Like @GregY... in all of my travels (pre-pandemic and pre-CT for carry-on screening), both domestic and international, I've never had any obvious film damage that might be attributable to airport screening xray. For the most part I stopped asking for hand inspections decades ago because there was just no need for it. But I did keep count of how many screenings each foll of film received prior to development.
 
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koraks

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Philippe-Georges said:
Then, why do people complain about damaged film?
What is really going on?
Click to expand...
Who is complaining about damaged film, and which of those instances can be reliably traced back to a limited number of regular carry-on x-ray scans?

What's going on, for the most part, as far as I can tell, is overreporting and overrepresentation of issues. This is not to say they don't exist - x-ray damage is certainly real. With a limited number of passes through a regular x-ray machine there may already be increased fog, but without any pattern to it and generally only detectable in direct comparisons of the same film managed under identical circumstances except for the x-ray exposure. So for some photographers, this may be an issue, especially if e.g. they work in contexts that require strict roll-to-roll color matching or they routinely do densitometry on their film and don't ever use expired film.

I'm not sure about yourself, but I have traveled with film taken through regular x-ray machines many times and never noticed any issues that were attributable to the limited x-ray exposure.
I do try to keep my film out of the claws of the newer CT machines, and in fact I doubt if I'll bring film along my future air travels anymore.
 

GregY

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Photo of their courtyard
 
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Naples

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halfaman said:
You can try Carmencita Lab in Barcelona, they have a very good reputation and I think they have also an express service at least for C41 developing.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I will look into them.

EDIT: Which would you go with in Barcelona for processing 35mm color: Carmencita, Revelab, or VM Foto? Thanks.
 
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Naples

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Hello again.

Any information on whether the CT scanners are now in at BCN, or will be in by January 8 2024 (when I fly out?)?

Also, we will be going into museums, churches, etc. Do they scan there too?

Thanks in advance.
 

GregY

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koraks said:
Shoot digital!



Yes.



Possibly/probably, but it's contested by some. I don't think there's going to be a firm yes or no.
Click to expand...

Never mind digital!.... Shoot film & have it processed in Barcelona before leaving
 
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Naples

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GregY said:
Never mind digital!.... Shoot film & have it processed in Barcelona before leaving
Click to expand...

Yes, I am likely to just have my film processed in Barcelona at the end of our travels and sent to me in the states. I am tired of stressing about whether CT scanners are awaiting me at the airport upon departure.

As indicated above, though, I do have an additional concern: Do the churches, museums, etc., in Spain scan your belongings before entry? I read that many "check" your belongings but I take that to mean a physical inspection?
 

Prest_400

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Naples said:
Hello again.

Any information on whether the CT scanners are now in at BCN, or will be in by January 8 2024 (when I fly out?)?

Also, we will be going into museums, churches, etc. Do they scan there too?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Hi! No noticeable update, with still the general broad date of 2024. I am flying back January 14 through T2 and assuming it will still be traditional Xrays.
Sagrada Familia has Xrays, but IIRC great majority of sights and museums there are not. Welcome!
For this Christmas. My current departure airport has CT on the main terminal, but traditional Xrays on the LCC connected terminal and one can choose whichever security checkpoint. However, that's a set up that might be less and less common. MIght wonder to risk if just going thru the CT checkpoint and request handcheck as I have a lot of work electronics.

Side topic, I am ideating a long trip to Asia and investigated CT scanners. Very possibly encounter them, but people are reporting that security points with CT scanners are accomodating hand checks more. I would prepare with extra documentation and mailing the airport(s) in advance so there is more of a ground to the request.
 
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Naples

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Thank you for your prompt response.

As regards Sagrada Familia, I assume the Xrays there are traditional and OK for 400 color film? Also, do you know if they will allow me to check my camera and pick up on the way out without Xraying? Their website mentions "checking" bags upon entry - I assumed this meant a physical check and leave.
 

Prest_400

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That I don't know, last time I was in Sagrada Familia was in 2016 before they set the security controls. As it is an airport, it could be like other forumers' experience in museums, that the guard checks it manually and passes it around. If you have some of the documents mentioning Xray it might help.
Ilford pointed me to this: https://www.ip-europe.com/membership/x-ray-download/
I posted it into the other X ray discussion:

Current experience with X-ray scanners - May 2022

were passengers asked to take laptops or other electronics out of the carry-on bags? Yes, and no liquids allowed, and basically just an old-fashioned scan line. Both times. Again, there's no point arguing it. Don't believe it if you don't want to.
www.photrio.com

Current experience with X-ray scanners - May 2022

were passengers asked to take laptops or other electronics out of the carry-on bags? Yes, and no liquids allowed, and basically just an old-fashioned scan line. Both times. Again, there's no point arguing it. Don't believe it if you don't want to.
www.photrio.com

IIRC it's just airports implementing CT scanners, together with historically deployed (late 90s?) high dosage/CT for checked in luggage.
 

abruzzi

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I visited Sagrada Familia in May 2023 with several rolls of Portra 800 and Delta 3200 without negative effect.
 

abruzzi

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One of the Portra shots. Different sides of the building have different color stained glass. behind me was orange/red stained glass so the foreground pillars (which are grey, like the background pillars) take on the color.


 
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Naples

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abruzzi said:
One of the Portra shots. Different sides of the building have different color stained glass. behind me was orange/red stained glass so the foreground pillars (which are grey, like the background pillars) take on the color.


View attachment 356025
Click to expand...

Fascinating. Looking forward to seeing it. I take it they allow photography inside the church? Or did you have special permission?
 

abruzzi

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Naples said:
Fascinating. Looking forward to seeing it. I take it they allow photography inside the church? Or did you have special permission?
Click to expand...
no special permission needed. I shot about 5 rolls in there (12 shots per roll 120 film.) It feels bright in there but its not, so faster film is a must. I didn't even bother metering, just set the 40mm to ƒ4 (wide open) and shutter at 1/30. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't allow a tripod.
 

radialMelt

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Go first thing in the morning when the location of the sun lights up the stained glass in an incredible sort of way. Stunning place.
 
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Naples

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UPDATE:

I am back in the U.S. from my trip to Spain.

Flew out of Miami to Barcelona with TSA PreCheck. The TSA PreCkeck line at MIA was short and they had what I am sure was an older rectangular scanner. I asked for a hand check of my 35mm rolls which were in a Ziploc freezer bag. It was no problem. I handed the Ziploc bag to the officer and she opened it and tested a few rolls, not all. I suspect the ease may have been due at least in part to having TSA PreCheck.

Barcelona is scheduled to have the new CT scanners in place this year, 2024. However, since I was not able to get confirmation beforehand whether the new scanners would be in place upon my departure, I took no chances and left my film with VMFoto in Barcelona for processing/scanning/printing. Upon arriving at the Barcelona airport the scanners appeared to be the older rectangular scanners, not the new CT scanners.

By the way, VMFoto did a superb job and was a pleasure to work with. Will use them again if I am fortunate enough to return to Barcelona.
 

radialMelt

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Recently flew through Madrid and while they are also slated to get the CT scanners in 2024, they were still on the good old fashioned x-ray scanners in Terminal 2 as of Jan 3, 2024.

But, much like my experiences in Barcelona and Santiago de Compostela, the agents there will not hand check any film unless it is ISO1600 or above.

This time was a little different though... I asked (very politely) if they would please hand check it. Much to my surprise, the agent responded "No problem!" The skeptic in me wasn't sure if I was being understood, so I asked again, this time in terrible Spanish. The agent replies, "don't worry, it's no problem!" I think to myself, what a pleasant surprise... that is until I see them chuck it through the x-ray scanner anyway, haha! I quickly realized that the agent meant not to worry about the film in the scanner. Doh! Anyway, in my experience putting ISO250-400 film through a scanner a few times doesn't really hurt it, so I didn't bother stressing out. Developing this weekend so perhaps I will eat my words.
 
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