Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

wblynch · Jul 24, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
It is under consideration. We generally agree that we like the idea of reintroducing 126, especially for those who are new to the medium of film.

The primary issue is that although we did save the 126 converting line, it needs a lot of work to make it usable again....\

Thanks !

FILM Ferrania · Jul 24, 2018

GRHazelton said:
If they can produce 127 I'll get my beloved Komaflex S back in operating condition! And I have a full Pentax 110 SLR kit.... Bring it on, along with 35mm and 120/220!!

We can and will produce 127 film eventually.
We will not produce 110 film - we were not able to salvage the necessary converting equipment and those who already sell 110 pretty much have the market locked.
We would like to produce 220 film, but not until we can afford the necessary modifications to our 120 line - and even then not until we understand clearly that there is a need that warrants the expense.

FILM Ferrania · Jul 24, 2018

wblynch said:
Thanks !

Just to be clear, we will never use another brand's film in our own products. We may one day manufacture products for other brands (way down the road), but anything we sell under the Ferrania brand will be made by us.

GRHazelton · Jul 24, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
We can and will produce 127 film eventually.
We will not produce 110 film - we were not able to salvage the necessary converting equipment and those who already sell 110 pretty much have the market locked.
We would like to produce 220 film, but not until we can afford the necessary modifications to our 120 line - and even then not until we understand clearly that there is a need that warrants the expense.

127! I'll have to solicit bids to fix my KomaFlex S! The last time I used it - many years ago - the automatic diaphragm wouldn't close down. Not a happy situation. Perhaps a thorough CLA.

Nzoomed · Jul 24, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
It is under consideration. We generally agree that we like the idea of reintroducing 126, especially for those who are new to the medium of film.

The primary issue is that although we did save the 126 converting line, it needs a lot of work to make it usable again. We would also need to find a source for cartridges, or go back to the blueprints to make new molds and find a plastics manufacturer who can make them in relatively small volume for a reasonable price. The cost to do these two things could easily reach €300K - more if the molds prove problematic.

With this kind of cost, 126 is obviously low-priority now and will remain so for quite some time yet. Even once we can technically afford the expenditure, the question then becomes "Is it worth the money" - a question that will be very difficult to answer before we have properly established ourselves in the market.

126 would really excite me, I think if you could potentially partner with the likes of lomography who would have a good customer base for the cartridges, they might be able to help foot part of the bill as part of an agreement to supply them converted cartridges for their films. Worth a shot anyway, just an idea.
Anyway, its probably worth contacting a company in china who could make the cartridges, im sure they could supply the moulds and/or cartridges to you at a decent price.
Backing paper is the other thing that comes to mind, do you have any old stock of this left over from the final conversion?

Nzoomed · Jul 24, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
We can and will produce 127 film eventually.
We will not produce 110 film - we were not able to salvage the necessary converting equipment and those who already sell 110 pretty much have the market locked.
We would like to produce 220 film, but not until we can afford the necessary modifications to our 120 line - and even then not until we understand clearly that there is a need that warrants the expense.

Would it be possible you could ask lomography if they could come to some agreement to convert 110 for you? Even if you supplied colour film for them to convert under their brand, i would still be happy.

mshchem · Jul 25, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
We can and will produce 127 film eventually.
We will not produce 110 film - we were not able to salvage the necessary converting equipment and those who already sell 110 pretty much have the market locked.
We would like to produce 220 film, but not until we can afford the necessary modifications to our 120 line - and even then not until we understand clearly that there is a need that warrants the expense.

Whatever is made needs to be profitable. The timing of product releases can be juggled. 110, 220 would be a distraction, time much better spent on cine film, 35mm cassette, bulk, and roll films. 126 ?? It's a great old category, I can't believe it's sustainable? I would like to see a nice little film company, tucked away in a lovely place, that makes products people will enjoy using, and will continue to prosper for many years to come.

Making film is a bit like making books. Without film, we would lose a miraculous medium of recording moments in time.
It really is a noble task to be part of preserving such a place .
Best to the Team. Mike

Diapositivo · Jul 25, 2018

What about microfilm (for archival purposes, microfiches) and X-ray film?
I see X-ray did not entirely disappear from the panorama. A few years ago I had dental X-rays and hospital X-rays made with traditional film.

I don't know about archival purposes but I suspect that microfilm would still have its place in some archival applications, and maybe would serve the purpose without the stress and cost connected to managing a database.

cmacd123 · Jul 25, 2018

Diapositivo said:
What about microfilm (for archival purposes, microfiches) and X-ray film?
I see X-ray did not entirely disappear from the panorama. A few years ago I had dental X-rays and hospital X-rays made with traditional film.

I don't know about archival purposes but I suspect that microfilm would still have its place in some archival applications, and maybe would serve the purpose without the stress and cost connected to managing a database.

Microfilm (I worked with it for many years) has become a niche of a niche.

for example Banks Used to microfilm all cheques and could make print substitute copies for the cheques were lost in shipping. Now the Cheque is scanned and destroyed, and the scan is submitted for clearing.

For many business uses, having a digital scan is much more useful particularly as many business documents have a defined lifespan. Kodak spun off their Microfilm business, and the spin off was getting microfilm stock from Agfa Belgum last I heard. Any Microfilm still used is likely Polyester base.

Foma seems to have a small X-ray Business. Mostly for Non destructive testing under field conditions. Carestream (another Kodak spin off) also has the capability to produce X-ray film. for heath applications the exposure tends to be lower for digital x-ray than film and as as exposure can increase the Cancer risk you will see a trend is away from Silver X-ray. NDT of course is great with film as you send out a sheet of film wrapped in opaque plastic, and use a portable X-ray or Radiation source, and bring the film back to a base camp for processing and analysis.

FILM Ferrania · Jul 26, 2018

Nzoomed said:
126 would really excite me, I think if you could potentially partner with the likes of lomography who would have a good customer base for the cartridges, they might be able to help foot part of the bill as part of an agreement to supply them converted cartridges for their films. Worth a shot anyway, just an idea.
Anyway, its probably worth contacting a company in china who could make the cartridges, im sure they could supply the moulds and/or cartridges to you at a decent price.
Backing paper is the other thing that comes to mind, do you have any old stock of this left over from the final conversion?

We have secured a source for fresh backing paper! The old stuff we have is really not in the best shape and we've kept it only for testing purposes.

As I said, we really like the idea of 126 and we have a few different ideas about how it could be done. The task is to find the best path that delivers the best quality without eating up too many resources.

And then there's the issue about 126 cameras. Sure there are millions out there, but how many are worth using? That's a big question we haven't answered for ourselves.

Basically, it's going to be a while before we can make a proper decision about 126...

swchris · Jul 26, 2018

I'm more interested to have a continuing supply for P30 in 135 and 120 formats.

That said, I'd definitely be interested in 126. I won't buy much, though. It's just that I would be able to use my very first own camera again, which I received (in 1976?) as present for my catholic communion. The camera is an all-plastic Kodak instamatic at the lower end, so I wouldn't use it for (intended to be) "good" pictures. But one never knows what pictures will come out at the end of the day...

I think Ferrania could setup a "preorder period" for 126 over, let's say, one year. If there are enough orders to do it profitable for them, they could do a 126 run. It should be stated upfront, that if not enough orders arrive, it will not happen. Depending on how much orders are filed, the price of the film might vary. Don't know how to handle this transparently, though.

And, if this is a success, make future preorder periods in the next years...

regards,
chris

FILM Ferrania · Jul 26, 2018

swchris said:
I'm more interested to have a continuing supply for P30 in 135 and 120 formats.

I think Ferrania could setup a "preorder period" for 126 over, let's say, one year. If there are enough orders to do it profitable for them, they could do a 126 run.

We are 100% focused on achieving continuous production of P30 in 135 and 120 formats. New products will follow as well as some fleshing-out of the basic format offerings.

Concerning 126 and other "odd" formats, we would very much like to organize our e-commerce in the way describe - basically having a visual "meter" that must be filled before running a batch. This adds a significantly more complicated set of criteria that our current platform (Squarespace) simply cannot handle - but we already know that we will soon "outgrow" Squarespace, so a new custom-built site is inevitable.

First, continuous production. Second, expand capacity (both production and staff). Third, add new products.
Somewhere in those steps, we'll hit upon the right time to migrate to a new, custom-built website.

Truzi · Jul 26, 2018

That sounds like an interesting idea for the "meter."

As far as 126, if you offer bulk rolls of unperforated 35mm, some of us would load our own.

Agulliver · Jul 26, 2018

Regarding 126, are there any figures to show how much Ferrania were selling in 2009 when it was last produced?

Expression of interest.....I already think P30 is great in 135. I think it could be a truly unique product in 120 and I'd be interested in an occasional roll of 127 for my Ferrania Tanit.

ME Super · Jul 26, 2018

At least for now, we have good quality E-6 offerings from Fuji, with Ektachrome 100 availability coming down the pike from EK/KA. There's also a plethora of B&W films available out there from the likes of Kodak, Ilford, and others. While I applaud Film Ferrania's dedication to P30 production, and we have it on good authority from PE that B&W is part of the route to getting to E-6, what I'd really like to see from the Ferrania guys is an ISO 400 or faster E-6 emulsion. Right now there are ZERO E-6 emulsions being manufactured with an ISO higher than 100. Kodak isn't even trying to bring this back yet - their planned reintroduction of Ektachrome is ISO 100. This is a huge hole in the market, and at least IMHO a better bet than bringing back 126 or 220. Bring back an ISO 400 E-6 emulsion in 135 and 120, and you'll have a captive market. It might be small, but it would be all Ferrania's. Nobody's made a high-speed E-6 emulsion since Fuji discontinued Provia 400X back in 2013.

wlodekmj · Jul 26, 2018

ME Super said:
At least for now, we have good quality E-6 offerings from Fuji, with Ektachrome 100 availability coming down the pike from EK/KA. There's also a plethora of B&W films available out there from the likes of Kodak, Ilford, and others. While I applaud Film Ferrania's dedication to P30 production, and we have it on good authority from PE that B&W is part of the route to getting to E-6, what I'd really like to see from the Ferrania guys is an ISO 400 or faster E-6 emulsion. Right now there are ZERO E-6 emulsions being manufactured with an ISO higher than 100. Kodak isn't even trying to bring this back yet - their planned reintroduction of Ektachrome is ISO 100. This is a huge hole in the market, and at least IMHO a better bet than bringing back 126 or 220. Bring back an ISO 400 E-6 emulsion in 135 and 120, and you'll have a captive market. It might be small, but it would be all Ferrania's. Nobody's made a high-speed E-6 emulsion since Fuji discontinued Provia 400X back in 2013.

Thank you for putting this so well on behalf of those of us who don't want to have to push ISO100 positive film for greater speed! Kodak too discontinued their ISO400 'chrome films sooner than others. Maybe because both Kodak and Fuji found that sales of these were low - or maybe because the faster film deteriorates more quickly in storage - or both.

Once Ferrania have their ISO100 chrome film in full production there will be pressure for different speed/colour balance, for different formats, possibly for C41 film too, and they will have to choose what to do next, depending on income forecasts - and on what their team finds easier (and cheaper?) - tweaking the film chemistry, or starting up new finishing lines. But it will be great for them to be in a position to make such decisions - good luck, team Ferrania!

FILM Ferrania · Jul 29, 2018

Agulliver said:
Regarding 126, are there any figures to show how much Ferrania were selling in 2009 when it was last produced?
Expression of interest.....I already think P30 is great in 135. I think it could be a truly unique product in 120 and I'd be interested in an occasional roll of 127 for my Ferrania Tanit.

It is likely that have the sales figures for 126 somewhere in our documentation - but much of that material is on wrapped pallets in our warehouse pending a massive project to organize and migrate all that data into an easily accessible format.

We could also probably obtain some anecdotal numbers from former staff - but as I mentioned previously, reassembling the 126 machines is a non-trivial affair and will require a significant investment of money and time. So regardless of the past sales, we must first be able to afford the costs, and of course, we must have our production capacity at a level that producing 126 will not interfere with other formats.

120 and 127 are most definitely coming. 120 first. 127 soon after.

FILM Ferrania · Jul 29, 2018

Truzi said:
That sounds like an interesting idea for the "meter."
As far as 126, if you offer bulk rolls of unperforated 35mm, some of us would load our own.

We will one day sell bulk rolls of 135 but we will first need to expand our production capacity many times over what it is today. We can coat only so many square meters of material each day and we must convert this somewhat finite amount into exactly the right products at the right time. We can certainly expand this output, but we must do it slowly and only as necessary.

Meyer Trioplan · Jul 30, 2018

Truzi said:
That sounds like an interesting idea for the "meter."

As far as 126, if you offer bulk rolls of unperforated 35mm, some of us would load our own.

Are you able to run it through the camera unperforated? Do some 126 cameras have the "sensor" guide like 110 cameras do that can allow shooting without the registration hole?

At present, I either:

put suffix letters A-E on the numbers of recycled backing and use 135 film stock, advancing multiple times as needed to reach the same or higher letter on the next frame number.
Use 120 film slit in half to about 30mm wide and placed below the line of elongated holes in the backing paper to properly advance.
Use a ticket punch to perforate lengths of unperforated film and carefully align them with the holes in the backing.

I'd certainly love it if 126 could awaken again, though I know it's easier said than done and hardly priority one in Ferrania building their capital. I've run some rolls of P30 through my Instamatic 804 and 714 using the top method above and it gave me some wonderful results.

Truzi · Jul 30, 2018

Meyer Trioplan said:
Are you able to run it through the camera unperforated? Do some 126 cameras have the "sensor" guide like 110 cameras do that can allow shooting without the registration hole?

At present, I either:

put suffix letters A-E on the numbers of recycled backing and use 135 film stock, advancing multiple times as needed to reach the same or higher letter on the next frame number.

Use 120 film slit in half to about 30mm wide and placed below the line of elongated holes in the backing paper to properly advance.

Use a ticket punch to perforate lengths of unperforated film and carefully align them with the holes in the backing.

I'd certainly love it if 126 could awaken again, though I know it's easier said than done and hardly priority one in Ferrania building their capital. I've run some rolls of P30 through my Instamatic 804 and 714 using the top method above and it gave me some wonderful results.

Some people have snipped off the pin that grabs the hole, but I'm not really sure if there are cameras as you describe.

I had gotten some unperfed 35mm color film and used a punch to create the indexing holes, then loaded a cartridge. I had covered the window, and just kept track of how many frames I exposed. My future thoughts regarding backing paper are similar to your second point, but slitting the backing paper instead, to clear the area with the holes and hopefully avoid light leaks. Lining up the holes when loading would be too difficult for me.

Here's an old thread you may find interesting:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/non-perforated-b-w-35mm-film.100053/page-2

Meyer Trioplan · Jul 31, 2018

Thanks for the link to the old thread. There lots of nice approaches there, and I'm glad I'm not the only one interested in 126 still - tried to PM you offline unsuccessfully.

I've picked up some Orwo UN54 unperforated off of everyone's favorite auction site, and the seller still is offering it if you are interested. I'd been using it for 828 but have enough to try branching out to 126 very soon, quite possibly adopting your method of skimming the backing paper to avoid doing the alignment with the existing holes.

richyd · Jul 31, 2018

Maybe my original backer discount might eventually come though and I'll be able to purchase some of this.

JWMster · Aug 8, 2018

Dave: Just glad to see you posting here again. Been a while. Glad to hear Ferrania is alive and kicking. Looking forward to 120. No real desire for 220... per se. Some might like it, yes, but 120 in 6X6 is just fine. Reload is less of a problem than finding 220 backs that (still) work with my hardware. Just sayin'.

klownshed · Aug 9, 2018

FILM Ferrania said:
basically having a visual "meter" that must be filled before running a batch.

Sounds like Kickstarter. You may have heard of it? ;-)

Agulliver · Aug 9, 2018

I'd add that I would buy some 220 as I have one camera which is capable of utilising both 120 and 220 (Kiev 6C). But I wouldn't be buying loads of it.....however I do think that P30 in 6x6 would be stunning. Kiev 6C, 45mm Mir lens and P30 could be an amazing combination.

I have a bucket load of 120 cameras though some of dubious quality (box and toy cameras). I'm waiting for P30 in 120 to run through my Zeiss-Ikon folder and Lubitel TLR as well as the Kiev.

Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

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