Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

Diapositivo · Aug 18, 2019

mohmad khatab said:
* If this plant had been in Egypt, production would have collapsed as the torrent had been pouring down. Because of the strength and abundance of the volunteer community in Egypt.
* The story contains suspicious and mysterious things surrounding it.

This plant is in Italy, not in Egypt. Film Ferrania is a for-profit firm. "Volunteer" work does not exist here, it's called "moonshine work", or "exploitment", or even "reduction in slavery", and it's seriously punished by the Law, up to the prison. You simply cannot hire people for free (or for meal and bed). There is a minimum wage by law, and compulsory labour accident insurance, and compulsory retirement payments. And if the contractual definition of the job does not fit with the real job, the labourer can sue the firm AFTER he stopped working for it in order to claim a higher wage ex-post.

Your mileage in Egypt may vary.

The "suspicious and mysterious" things only arise in your mind, which is ignorant of how things work in Italy (and the EU in general).

Ferrania might maybe one day set some collaboration with some University or other research Institute but that's within a legislative framework aimed at preventing labour exploitment or moonshine work (paying the worker "under the table").

It's totally unthinkable that people just can be called in to work for free. This is not Egypt and the legislative framework is entirely different.

Molli · Aug 18, 2019

rknewcomb said:
Hi Dave,
There are some of just quietly wishing you great success and thank you for what your are doing.
Robert

Me tenth (or 1,000th or whatever)!
No complaints from me whatsoever, merely best wishes and a sincere thank you to Dave for being here in the face of too much griping and negativity. You're amazing and I'm so grateful to the whole team for persevering! Go Film Ferrania!

Nzoomed · Aug 20, 2019

cmacd123 said:
You tell them Dave!

thanks for all your hard work. and remember that their are those of us who want to BUY anything we can possibly use if it will help get a small specialty maker of materials that the Big guys cannot economically look at, off the ground.

Completley agree!
There are many of us here who are happy to patiently wait and watch film ferrania making colour film a reality!

FILM Ferrania · Aug 20, 2019

dutchsteammachine said:
Dave, what would you say is the biggest technological difference between a modern factory such as Ilford, and future Film Ferrania?

I'm not really qualified to speak directly to the technological differences. It is my understanding, however, that film factories are very similar on the surface, but completely different when you get into the details.

If I were to pick one thing that (I assume) is the biggest difference in a general sense, it is our capability to make color film. But maybe I'm wrong about that?

FILM Ferrania · Aug 20, 2019

mohmad khatab said:
The meaning of the word volunteer = work without a salary.
Working without any incentives, benefits, insurance or succession.
The volunteer signs a pledge to accept unpaid volunteering for a number of hours per day or for a number of days per month, etc. The management of the factory may have a moral and ethical obligation to provide lunch for this volunteer in case he worked more than x hours (or something like that)
* Volunteer services can be utilized by working outside the factory walls, such as logistics, packaging assistance or the like. There are dozens of areas that can assist a small team in completing work.

* If this plant had been in Egypt, production would have collapsed as the torrent had been pouring down. Because of the strength and abundance of the volunteer community in Egypt.
* The story contains suspicious and mysterious things surrounding it.

There is nothing suspicious or mysterious about what we are doing.
Also, comparing what might happen in Egypt with our reality in Italy is not really valid for a variety of reasons.

Volunteers would simply not help us in any way at this point in time. In fact, there is not really anything that a volunteer could do.
Sure, at some point in the future, we will be able to accept volunteers for various tasks - but then we must figure out all of the other obstacles that I have described previously.

FILM Ferrania · Aug 20, 2019

Many many thanks to everyone for +1-ing the "quietly wishing you great success" post!

FILM Ferrania · Aug 20, 2019

Helge said:
Great response!
There is flattery, which you can use to deescalate any argument if you can find a way to not make it sound contrived.
There is the nice invitation, with the daunting face to face meeting that every keyboard worrier secretly fears.
And there is the implied threat of hunting him down, should you ever get near him.

I can easily separate the art from the personality of the artist.
I worked in the music business for many years and I learned that artists don't necessarily possess great interpersonal and/or social skills.
The ones that did, I admired all the more - but it was very very rare.

mohmad khatab · Aug 20, 2019

FILM Ferrania said:
There is nothing suspicious or mysterious about what we are doing.
Also, comparing what might happen in Egypt with our reality in Italy is not really valid for a variety of reasons.

Volunteers would simply not help us in any way at this point in time. In fact, there is not really anything that a volunteer could do.
Sure, at some point in the future, we will be able to accept volunteers for various tasks - but then we must figure out all of the other obstacles that I have described previously.

First, I have not made any comparisons between the two countries.
Second, you are talking about Italy as if it were part of Jupiter!
Third: Italy is part of the conscience of many Egyptians (especially the people of the North) and Egypt is part of the conscience of many Italians (especially the people of the South), if you look for the origins of many Egyptian citizens you will find that they are of Italian origin in the contrary and vice versa . (However, I never made any comparisons)
Matters of volunteerism around the world are often almost the same.

BradS · Aug 20, 2019

...and now, I see why companies that provided the products that we use and love do not participate here (or anywhere).

what an angry, ungrateful lot of consumers we are!

cmacd123 · Aug 20, 2019

BradS said:
...and now, I see why companies that provided the products that we use and love do not participate here (or anywhere).
what an angry, ungrateful lot of consumers we are!

it is a shame, as the manufacturers can offer insights galore, but they will be tempted hide if they get arguments - particularly based on the way things are done in other parts of the world. I am here to know more about how the products I use can be used more effectively.

Photo Engineer · Aug 20, 2019

Some of the companies are afraid of the legal consequences. That is something I too consider, taking in the comments I have gotten in private.

PE

cmacd123 · Aug 20, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Some of the companies are afraid of the legal consequences. That is something I too consider, taking in the comments I have gotten in private.
PE

I CAN see if someone says wizzardChrome will work under this strange condition, and it does not because the user did not understand, the company might still get a claim of not selling a suitable product.

Photo Engineer · Aug 20, 2019

Charles, consider giving advice to non chemists about chemistry, and consider the problems that might arise. I worry about this and add as many disclaimers as possible when I give out a formula or a specific piece of advice.

PE

BradS · Aug 21, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Some of the companies are afraid of the legal consequences. That is something I too consider, taking in the comments I have gotten in private.

PE

I would say all publicly traded US corporations are completely terrifified of even the slightest whiff of legal consequences.

I am certain that this why every company I have ever worked for for the past oh, thirty years, has made it very clear that employees are absolutley not allowed to comment publicly on anything to do with the business...."with punishment up to and including termination". It is very difficult sometimes to "hold thy tounge" - especially in this internet age when so much bullshit opinion gets passed off as irrufutable fact. <sigh>

dutchsteammachine · Aug 22, 2019

If FilmFerrania was to print all hateful, inconsiderate, stupid, and arguments from incredulity found on this thread on paper and used it as fuel, they would cut a lot of heating expenses of the film dryer!

Burninfilm · Aug 22, 2019

To really make use of that "hate"-fueled film dryer, they'd actually need to be selling some film first.... which.... they aren't...

A lot of companies don't need to visit online discussion forums, as the quality of their products/service is what speaks for the company. Ferrania can't do this, since they have no products and hence no need to provide service.

Perhaps that will change some day?

flavio81 · Aug 26, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
Some of the companies are afraid of the legal consequences. That is something I too consider, taking in the comments I have gotten in private.

PE

Hi PE,

I just logged in here after about one or two years of not visiting this forum, only to wish you the best, dear professor.

When you think about the (negative) "comments you have received in private", also consider the positive comments you receive from us your many fans that are thankful.

Best regards,
F.

flavio81 · Aug 26, 2019

FILM Ferrania said:
Folks like you most certainly qualify for "Patience of a Saint" status.
Thank you for that. Seriously.

Those are folks that understand that making consistent, good quality film at reasonable prices using a leftover factory that didn't even have reliable heating, water and power, with only a handful of people, is a project that can take years...

Photo Engineer · Aug 26, 2019

flavio81 said:
Hi PE,

I just logged in here after about one or two years of not visiting this forum, only to wish you the best, dear professor.

When you think about the (negative) "comments you have received in private", also consider the positive comments you receive from us your many fans that are thankful.

Best regards,
F.

Thanks Flavio. Best wishes and welcome back.

PE

FILM Ferrania · Aug 30, 2019

I think that's a good place to end this thread.

Charles, can you please shut it down?

cmacd123 · Aug 30, 2019

FILM Ferrania said:
I think that's a good place to end this thread.

Charles, can you please shut it down?

I am not a moderator.

cmacd123 · Aug 30, 2019

so Dave - are you going to start a new discussion?

Cholentpot · Aug 30, 2019

cmacd123 said:
so Dave - are you going to start a new discussion?

Just start a new thread called Ferrania Updates.

MattKing · Aug 30, 2019

And if you are the "originator" of the thread, the moderators are more likely to be supportive of requests for things like edits and title updates.

cmacd123 · Aug 30, 2019

MattKing said:
And if you are the "originator" of the thread, the moderators are more likely to be supportive of requests for things like edits and title updates.

yes, and the discussion will likely all move there.

Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

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