Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[laser]

It's available here: http://www.makingkodakfilm.com/ - and I would add, from an interested layman's point of view, that I found the book fascinating!

Thanks for the kind words. It has been gratifying that so many APUG members have found the book to be worthwhile. My thanks to all the people, especially PE, that helped me document how film is made. For those that can't justify the 470-page 2nd edition please note that the 94-page first edition is available at a much lower cost.

Bob

 

[Photo Engineer]

Where did i complain?

"foc" did complain, "burninfilm" did complain, all i said was:



I did explain why a short video-update cannot be made - i apologize in due form but you seem to mistake those who complain with those who explain.

Harry, please look at post 423. It seems that your memory is a bit selective.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks for the kind words. It has been gratifying that so many APUG members have found the book to be worthwhile. My thanks to all the people, especially PE, that helped me document how film is made. For those that can't justify the 470-page 2nd edition please note that the 94-page first edition is available at a much lower cost.

Bob

Bob, I keep referring private messages to you, as I just did a moment ago. Best wishes. I'm going to have to do something to update mine as well.

Thanks for everything.

Ron

 

[Henning Serger]

Thanks for the kind words. It has been gratifying that so many APUG members have found the book to be worthwhile. My thanks to all the people, especially PE, that helped me document how film is made. For those that can't justify the 470-page 2nd edition please note that the 94-page first edition is available at a much lower cost.

Bob

Dear Bob,
we have to thank you for your outstanding two books!
I have both, and they are really excellent. I can only highly recommend them to all who are interested in this fascinating topic of film production.
As someone who has had the luck and privilege to visit several current film factories and talked to the chemists and engineers there, I've got a very precise assassment of all the huge challenges in film production "live". And the more film factories I visit, the more also my respect for your enormous work writing these books grows. Especially for the second, extremely detailed edition.
In my opinion it is a "must read" for film enthusiasts.

Thank you very much and best regards,
Henning

 

[Harry Callahan]

Harry, please look at post 423. It seems that your memory is a bit selective.

PE

In post 423 you assume me to complain - which i did not. I explained to "foc" why a quick video-update is not possible - and that i also would like to have more updates, but that is not a complain because i know that its not possible. And i said so to "foc".
If you have followed this and the previous thread, you´d know that i am arguing against the complainers for about three years now. Remember all the accusations by Berry, Eliash, that guy who started to swear and now its burninfilm and foc. It was me (and others) going against them.
You are heavily mistaking me for someone else.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I get the bigger picture, but your comment "it only takes an hour" made it seem like you don´t know about the problems. I surely would appreciate a weekly update going into detail so i could learn a little about film production, but such a thing regretfully is beyond their capacities.

All i tried to do was to explain why it can´t be done, as your comment indicated it would be very easy and not to do it was sloppy.

Harry, you could have fooled me after this!

You want information, but cant spend the time to understand it? I refer you to more detail and you don't want it? It is out there by Bob Shanebrook and some of my comments.

No! You complained and then rejected sources of information.

Sorry Harry.

PE

 

[Agulliver]

I come to this as an amaetur and relative layman who knows a little about how film is made. I know that people like PE have been there, done it, seen how it's done, and know far more than I. I am grateful that people such as PE take time to explain to people like me what is involved. Also in the days when they were getting P30 Alpha ready the Ferrania communication explained a fair amount of what they were doing and what extra they had to do in order to make film entirely in-house and to make colour film.

All this leaves me in no doubt that it's a very complex procedure involving not only chemistry (about which I do know a bit) and machinery (about which I know little), expertese and control of the process in order to produce a film which is in any way usable and consistently so.

Therefore I am careful with my criticisms of the process, and patient. I also inhabit other web forums for things like tape recording, where people bleat "I want a new high end cassette recorder"....now there I better understand the engineering feats required....and I patiently explain the money, time and manufacturing involved....why it won't happen...and people simply gloss over it and bleat again a few weeks later.

Bottom line...you can't win.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Harry, you could have fooled me after this!

You want information, but cant spend the time to understand it? I refer you to more detail and you don't want it? It is out there by Bob Shanebrook and some of my comments.

No! You complained and then rejected sources of information.

Sorry Harry.

PE

I am not fooling you. I was very polite when you offered me information, but i was not in for information in the first place. I said:

"I surely would appreciate a weekly update going into detail so i could learn a little about film production, but such a thing regretfully is beyond their capacities."

Why did i say so? To show "foc" that i also would appreciate more updates on Ferrania, but that it is not as easy to do as "foc" suggested ("it only takes an hour"). I was not looking for information in the first place, i was talking about more updates and how hard these are to make.
Then you joined in and provided sources of information and i answered in a polite way that i anyway couldn´t handle a technical literature - and i wasn´t looking for information in the first place. I was talking about how hard updates are to make, not general information on film production - all i wanted to show by my statement was that i also am interested in more updates by Ferrania.

As i said you regretfully are mistaken, i am none of the complainers - you could re-read the last three pages of this topic and see who was complaining and who was arguing against those.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Harry, when someone learns, they get more information. These two phrases are synonyms.

A complaint is "a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable".

I think these guys deserve credit and deserve to be left alone for responding in their time.

PE

 

[foc]

I see I am mentioned quite a few times in the last few posts.
All I can think of is my fellow countryman, Oscar Wilde, and his quote
"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about"

 

[Harry Callahan]

Harry, when someone learns, they get more information. These two phrases are synonyms.

A complaint is "a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable".

I think these guys deserve credit and deserve to be left alone for responding in their time.

PE

You have not followed this topic.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Thanks for the update but I find it difficult to understand some of your points regarding showing video.
-There was no initial video documentation of the building, so any sort of "before/after" video that shows changes is impossible.
I know what's done is done but it seems very remiss of you NOT to have documented this. It would have been the first thing I would though of at the begining.

Golly gee - I guess we should have consulted with you before taking on this project.

Also, I'm really sick of people using the passive aggressive rhetorical device "I find it difficult to understand" when discussing things regarding our company.
This hindsight/armchair stuff carries no weight with me. It's all just letter-shaped black dots on a screen.

I am sure with a little imagination, you could show what is happening. Have a look at the Ilford factory video for inspiration.

If the given reason isn't good enough for you, I could probably come up with 20 or 30 others.
I personally did not find the Ilford video inspiring. Informative, yes. Interesting, yes.

Also, again: FILM Ferrania is to Ilford as a horse-drawn carriage is to a Tesla.
Maybe not the best analogy, but comparing our two companies in any way is simply pointless.

Why not have a photography student take the video, or someone else. It can't be that hard to find someone to do it.

Here is another phrase that pushes my buttons - "It can't be that hard to..."
It's of course very easy to say such things from a certain perspective - but it's also incredibly presumptuous and rarely has any relationship with actual reality.

If you are so inclined, please feel free to find someone who will travel to the middle of nowhere Italy (which usually means staying at least one night), and who will work on our erratic schedule, and who passes the minimum requirements to be legally allowed into the building, and is a decent videographer. Oh, and they need to do all of the shooting and editing work at the same cost as Nicola - free.

Also, when the team is working, they are working and it's really best not to disrupt them
Very true BUT for the sake of transparency and communication take 1 hour out of the working time to record a video, by the person above. It would help a huge amount by showing your commitment to bringing film to the market. It would also silence doubters like myself.

I think silencing doubters is called fascism. And considering the unfortunate history of the old Ferrania company, I'm not about to go anywhere near that.

Also, we are showing our commitment by continuing to exist. At this point in time, it's quite frankly the best we can offer.

 

[faberryman]

Wow, is Film Ferrania defensive or what?

 

[cmacd123]

Golly gee -
Also, we are showing our commitment by continuing to exist. At this point in time, it's quite frankly the best we can offer.

You tell them Dave!

thanks for all your hard work. and remember that their are those of us who want to BUY anything we can possibly use if it will help get a small specialty maker of materials that the Big guys cannot economically look at, off the ground.

 

[dutchsteammachine]

Wow, is Film Ferrania defensive or what?

This is a good thing.

Tell them Italians!

 

[Kino]

Wow, is Film Ferrania defensive or what?

Poke the bear, get bitten...

 

[faberryman]

Poke the bear, get bitten...

Yeah, really professional.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

You tell them Dave!

thanks for all your hard work. and remember that their are those of us who want to BUY anything we can possibly use if it will help get a small specialty maker of materials that the Big guys cannot economically look at, off the ground.

Hi Charles,

Fortunately for my blood pressure and general sanity, most people who follow and reply to our posts are supporters, unflappably cheering us on and offering encouragement.

We are committed to rewarding this kindness in every way we are able - even if the emphasis must always be on the "able" part.

 

[Kino]

Yeah, really professional.

"Being professional" has nothing to do with putting up with endless complaints and griping when multiple explanations have been offered.

 

[faberryman]

"Being professional" has nothing to do with putting up with endless complaints and griping when multiple explanations have been offered.

Lashing out isn't really a very effective PR strategy.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Yeah, really professional.

Hi Franklin,

I can always count on you to poo-poo whatever I post.

I've looked at your website and I really admire your work.

If you are ever in NYC, you have a permanent invitation to lunch on me to air your grievances in detail.

I mean this 100% sincerely. In fact, if I'm in Nashville for some reason, I'll look you up.

 

[dutchsteammachine]

I for one can't wait for FerraniaChrome in 10x8!

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I for one can't wait for FerraniaChrome in 10x8!

Ha!

I must implore you, however, to find a way to wait... It will avoid unnecessary disappointment.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Yes, you are likely talking to the wind. And yes, it is OK to be critical of Ferrania... they’ve done a bad job with many things, and it’s ok to point that out. It’s possible to respect their continued efforts and attempts to bring film products to market, but even Dave Bias admits there were things that could have been done better. I’ve been pretty hard on them, but ultimately, it really doesn’t matter. They’ll either bring viable and wanted film products to market... or... they won’t. Even if they DO bring stuff to market, it might not sell well. That’s a ton of time to waste, and a ton of risk to be exposed to, just to try to keep an old film testing facility up and running as a little factory. So I respect that as well. I can only wonder how much 100 speed B&W film they can sell at $8 to $10 a roll.

You've just generally described the risk of going into any business.

Back on topic, I have a few questions for Film Ferrania:

1. What ever happened to the "Friends of Film" program? Something you still plan to implement?

Yes. There is a good amount of work (ie. expense) necessary to tweak Shopify to allow for such a program. And it's pointless until we have something to sell. But for sure, the Friends of FILM program will happen.

2. If you DO instate the "Friends of Film" program, will it be for all backers, or just for backers that chose the option to keep their original reward (which is what the original deal was for before it got changed)?

All Backers.

3. What ever happened to the "tool" you mentioned for backers to use in place of their original "reward"? Is this still going to be a thing? It was mentioned a lot for a short while, then silence. Weird.

We went silent on it because it made no sense to do until we had film coming off the production line. It's just a hollow gesture otherwise.

And as it happens, we don't need the tool - Shopify can do everything we need to do.

4. If you do offer backers a credit in place of the original "reward", what is the credit going to be? Full value of the original pledge?

Yes.
Full details will be sent to all Backers a couple of weeks before the shop goes live.

5. Have any plans for the production of color slide film been cancelled indefinitely? I remember some discussion about different B&W film products, so obviously those would take their own bit of R&D, and considering Film Ferrania's history of product delivery, any prospects of color slide film production seem too far into the future to even worry about. Ferrania has made some comments recently that made it sound like the color slide film thing has been basically passed over.

Since I pretty much make all of the comments, I can say that I've never indicated that we have passed over or cancelled anything.

I now state in my official capacity as spokesperson for FILM Ferrania: "Nothing has been cancelled."

 

[mshchem]

I for one can't wait for FerraniaChrome in 10x8!

8x10 will be available a couple months before 10x8