Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

Agulliver · May 30, 2019

IMAX here in the UK is generally digital....but every now and then they will specifically advertise that they're showing a presentation from film. Projecting even a regular movie from film seems to be something of a selling point - though almost certainly aimed at enthusiasts rather than the general public.

Curiously, my wife isn't especially bothered by the whole analogue vs digital thing....but she can certainly tell the difference when it comes to the cinema even with 4K vs film. SHe used to work in a cinema, and has seen me do hobby shooting with 8 and 16mm film (as well as me still using copious quantities of still film)....I think the convenience factor is a thing for her. No more huge platters of film for the cinema, no more jams...

wlodekmj · Jun 2, 2019

faberryman said:
Unfortunately, we don't know whether the total investment was $100 or $1,000,000.

At some stage they stated a minimum investment - something like $10,000. The investors page is no longer shown, so the investment/s surely came to much more than that.

But the shop page still says "Returning Early 2019" and the FAQ page still says "Our online shop will re-launch in Fall 2018". Those of us who know that these are best intentions understand this, but it is misleading to newcomers. I suggested an edit long ago; maybe now that it is June 2019, the above should have just one word removed in the first and one number changed in the second. Make it "Returning 2019", and "Our online shop will re-launch in Fall 2019" and new visitors would not be put off.

Keep working and good luck, Ferrania!

Nzoomed · Jun 7, 2019

MattKing said:
Are you sure Andrew? I believe that the local IMAX theatres have all converted to digital IMAX projection - but I would be happy to learn I am wrong.

I believe that many Imax theatres still have their film projectors installed, as the occasional release comes out on film.
I also know there are still theatres out there with 70MM projectors for special releases that come out on film, I remember them making a big deal when Dunkirk was advertised as coming out in 70MM in selected theatres.

I really hope we see a return to 70MM film, and even possibly 35MM film for special releases.
I know our cinema still has the projectors installed alongside the digital ones when i looked through the window.

70MM is absolutely amazing, they say 8K is the minimum resolution needed to replicate 35MM film, but i guess it depends on the film stock.
If Kodak have managed to get more resolving power out of their films, it might even be harder to beat with digital.
Am i right in guessing that you would need 16K resolution to replicate 70MM film? I know when our theatre switched to digital the picture is crap, i think the reason is that they just went for 4K projectors to save costs.
You can totally see the pixels.

cmacd123 · Jun 7, 2019

Nzoomed said:
I believe that many Imax theatres still have their film projectors installed, as the occasional release comes out on film.
I also know there are still theatres out there with 70MM projectors for special releases that come out on film, I remember them making a big deal when Dunkirk was advertised as coming out in 70MM in selected theatres..

70mm refers to two different formats

"Normal" 70mm is a wider version of 35mm, with 5 perfs a frame instead of 4 as in 35mm Movies. Film travels verticaly and the frame is across the film. the film is perforated to match 65mm Film, and the space at the outside of the perfs originally carried Magnetic soundtracks.

"IMAX" 70mm is 15 perfs per frame, the film travels horizontally (like Vista Vision) and the frame is along the film. Sound was always on a separate Magnetic recorder drive.

for Dunkirk and the hateful 8 the producers had 70mm projectors installed for the run. the company who did this had to refurbish many out of service projectors to be able to find enough to equip all the theaters.

Nzoomed · Jun 17, 2019

cmacd123 said:
70mm refers to two different formats

"Normal" 70mm is a wider version of 35mm, with 5 perfs a frame instead of 4 as in 35mm Movies. Film travels verticaly and the frame is across the film. the film is perforated to match 65mm Film, and the space at the outside of the perfs originally carried Magnetic soundtracks.

"IMAX" 70mm is 15 perfs per frame, the film travels horizontally (like Vista Vision) and the frame is along the film. Sound was always on a separate Magnetic recorder drive.

for Dunkirk and the hateful 8 the producers had 70mm projectors installed for the run. the company who did this had to refurbish many out of service projectors to be able to find enough to equip all the theaters.

Yes, im aware both Imax 70MM is a different format to regular 70MM.

Hopefully we will see more 70MM projectors kept in service, after the work spent on getting them working for Dunkirk.
35MM would be much easier I would think.

cmacd123 · Jun 18, 2019

Nzoomed said:
Hopefully we will see more 70MM projectors kept in service, after the work spent on getting them working for Dunkirk.
35MM would be much easier I would think.

some have double sprockets and can handle both formats with a change if the aperture plate.

Burninfilm · Jun 26, 2019

It says a lot when the updates about Ferrania’s progress are so unbearably exciting that a conversation about refurbished 70mm projectors ensues. Lol.

Sirius Glass · Jun 26, 2019

Burninfilm said:
It says a lot when the updates about Ferrania’s progress are so unbearably exciting that a conversation about refurbished 70mm projectors ensues. Lol.

Kinda like watching rust grow.

cmacd123 · Jun 26, 2019

Burninfilm said:
It says a lot when the updates about Ferrania’s progress are so unbearably exciting that a conversation about refurbished 70mm projectors ensues. Lol.

twenty messages ago - someone posted wanting to see film made in an old fashioned movie format (Duvrey -Howell) which basically no one has made since the 1950s. that is all it takes to sidetrack the thread when we don't hear anything from Dave Bias and the rest of his team.

Burninfilm · Jun 27, 2019

Yeah, I understand that. LOL. Hopefully they’ll provide an update soon.

Till then, the last few have been kinda lame. Like writing a blog about fixing up a neat old car, but only talking about some random screwdriver found in the bottom of the toolbox... instead of talking about the car...

railwayman3 · Jul 3, 2019

It is now around five years since the Kickstarter and we can't even buy a single 35mm black and white sample roll to try out. Surely the conclusion should be obvious.

Kino · Jul 3, 2019

cmacd123 said:
twenty messages ago - someone posted wanting to see film made in an old fashioned movie format (Duvrey -Howell) which basically no one has made since the 1950s. that is all it takes to sidetrack the thread when we don't hear anything from Dave Bias and the rest of his team.

Now why would anyone need Dubray-Howell perforations unless they were running a Technicolor 3 Strip camera?

cmacd123 · Jul 3, 2019

Kino said:
Now why would anyone need Dubray-Howell perforations unless they were running a Technicolor 3 Strip camera?

or some other unusual situation. Now I would be delighted to try a roll of 16MM Short pitch P30 in my Filmo. if it were to be made in 35mm Motion Picture stock I would expect it to come with "N" (BH1866) perfs.

Kino · Jul 3, 2019

cmacd123 said:
or some other unusual situation. Now I would be delighted to try a roll of 16MM Short pitch P30 in my Filmo. if it were to be made in 35mm Motion Picture stock I would expect it to come with "N" (BH1866) perfs.

I once owned a Konvas 35mm 2M camera set up on KS 1870 perforated film, but it would run just about anything regardless of pitch and perforation, as it was a tractor-like camera but produced good images!

The USSR went over to the proposed "KS 1870 for-everything" after a 1939 ISO Convention in Budapest voted to make it a World Wide Standard and retooled their entire cinema industry for long pitch KS perforations. However, the rest of the World told the ISO Committee to go fly a kite and retained the old 1866/1870 workflow.

That's why the old Soviet 35mm motion picture cameras have to be reworked to take short pitch negative stocks...

btaylor · Jul 4, 2019

Yes, a Konvas doesn’t care about B&H or KS perfs. It sounds like a tractor no matter what film is going through it! There were various schemes to record sync sound with them but no success unless you were 100’ away from the subjects.
The registration pin was the only mod that was needed on the Kinor “silent” cameras to run B&H perfs. I used to rent modified Konvas and Kinor cameras to no budget productions, but those days are long gone.

Burninfilm · Jul 9, 2019

Ferrania! You should do some updating to your website! Especially the "SHOP" page... Early 2019 is OVER...

I believe another forum member mentioned this earlier as well... and it seems like something that would be really easy to fix for whoever manages the website...

wlodekmj · Jul 9, 2019

Burninfilm said:
Ferrania! You should do some updating to your website! Especially the "SHOP" page... Early 2019 is OVER...

I believe another forum member mentioned this earlier as well... and it seems like something that would be really easy to fix for whoever manages the website...

Yes, I wrote on June 3:

wlodekmj said:
...But the shop page still says "Returning Early 2019" and the FAQ page still says "Our online shop will re-launch in Fall 2018". Those of us who know that these are best intentions understand this, but it is misleading to newcomers. ...

Pure speculation, but I wonder if they found an investor who has given them enough support that they are happy to work slowly and steadily, without trying to say anything about when they will be ready, not even to update these statements on their website.

mshchem · Jul 9, 2019

wlodekmj said:
Yes, I wrote on June 3:

Pure speculation, but I wonder if they found an investor who has given them enough support that they are happy to work slowly and steadily, without trying to say anything about when they will be ready, not even to update these statements on their website.

I think you may have the right idea. Ferrania must have obtained some capital, or else it's done.
Getting in discussions on these forums does no good. People start asking them if they can make crazy things. People complain about unfilled slide film rewards.

I was Ferrania I would stay quiet until they are ready to move forward with commercially viable products, that doesn't need to be slide film.
Eastman Kodak is in very difficult financial straights. Ferrania needs a small group of profitable products.

Burninfilm · Jul 9, 2019

No, there is no excuse for not doing a simple edit to their website. It's ridiculous. Take a few minutes and fix something that makes your company look like it doesn't know what it's doing. Along with getting rid of a glaring example of another one of their many missed deadlines. If they don't care enough to fix these little things, it really makes one wonder if they'll care enough to actually get the factory up and running.

Also, getting a new investor does not divest them of their Kickstarter obligations to their backers. If they didn't want to deal with backers, they shouldn't have taken all of that Kickstarter money. So they should be expected to, if they succeed, make good on their Kickstarter obligations...

Kino · Jul 9, 2019

http://money.com/money/3419108/kickstarter-backers-are-investors-and-its-time-they-got-used-to-it/

Recently, Kickstarter appeared to respond to the bad press by revising its terms of service. The new document does a better job of laying out the responsibilities creators have to their backers. No scamming, do your best, try to make it up to people if you fail, and so on. But that move likely won’t fix the deeper problem: That most of the site’s users believe that their donations entitle them to some kind of tangible reward, be it a smart watch or a bamboo beer koozie. In reality, nothing of the sort is guaranteed. That’s because Kickstarter backers aren’t customers making a purchase. They’re investors. And like all investments, Kickstarter projects have a chance of going bust.

So, it's obvious they underestimated the challenges they faced, but if they were con artists, the website would have gone dead 5 years ago.

cmacd123 · Jul 9, 2019

Burninfilm said:
Also, getting a new investor does not divest them of their Kickstarter obligations to their backers.

they probably have already met the minimum requirements that kickstarter requires. - they sent out the postcards, they offered p30 at a discount too bakers, they put the backers names on their web site. Yes, their is a moral obligation to provide everyone who selected that option with some sort of film. maybe we will get it or maybe we won't no use bitching about it.

and yes, I would love to get at least a "heartbeat" message saying "hello, we are still alive." Still no idea when we will have product.

Kino · Jul 9, 2019

I tear my hair out on a daily basis just trying to coax good prints out of a motion picture lab that is populated with machinery of which NONE of the manufactures EXIST at this present date. No spare parts, no factory reps to call, only hulks to cannibalize and rapidly fading blueprints guide our repairs.

I cannot imagine how they are having their asses handed to them in trying to get a film coating line back operating. Those things have the inertia of GOD and only a few people on this site, PE being one of them, have ANY CLUE what it takes to make emulsion and coat it flawlessly on a base, day in and day out.

mshchem · Jul 9, 2019

Kino said:
http://money.com/money/3419108/kickstarter-backers-are-investors-and-its-time-they-got-used-to-it/

Recently, Kickstarter appeared to respond to the bad press by revising its terms of service. The new document does a better job of laying out the responsibilities creators have to their backers. No scamming, do your best, try to make it up to people if you fail, and so on. But that move likely won’t fix the deeper problem: That most of the site’s users believe that their donations entitle them to some kind of tangible reward, be it a smart watch or a bamboo beer koozie. In reality, nothing of the sort is guaranteed. That’s because Kickstarter backers aren’t customers making a purchase. They’re investors. And like all investments, Kickstarter projects have a chance of going bust.

So, it's obvious they underestimated the challenges they faced, but if they were con artists, the website would have gone dead 5 years ago.

Exactly, people who back Kickstarter projects are Patrons not customers. Kickstarter is for pie in the sky projects that can't make a business case for traditional capital markets. The Italian government, local, regional / national, have poured millions of euro into this site. A much greater effort than would happen in the US.
The original plan to try to use surplus left over material to produce reversal film failed.
Whatever comes from here on, should be to support the business and try to preserve the site, and the knowledge.

cmacd123 · Jul 9, 2019

Kino said:
I tear my hair out on a daily basis just trying to coax good prints out of a motion picture lab that is populated with machinery of which NONE of the manufactures EXIST at this present date. No spare parts, no factory reps to call, only hulks to cannibalize and rapidly fading blueprints guide our repairs..

yes, and the Italia folks are one step beyond that in that the equipment did not HAVE a Manufacturer other than the long vanished engineering department on site. almost all the machines were probably one off so cannibalization is not likely to be possible. (some of what they saved from "Big Boy" is likely intended as a parts source"No doubt the engineers have made tweaks to the machinery when the factory was running full out that may not have been added to the drawings.

And yes, a movie lab has to do mind boggling work to get a print even with freshly made modern equipment and so tying to keep things running could be a nightmare, BUT at least the film stock can be bought fairly fresh - the makers have to Make the film stock, and then run the equivalent of a movie Lab just to test and see if they made it right.

iandvaag · Jul 10, 2019

Kino said:
most of the site’s users believe that their donations entitle them to some kind of tangible reward, be it a smart watch or a bamboo beer koozie. In reality, nothing of the sort is guaranteed. That’s because Kickstarter backers aren’t customers making a purchase. They’re investors. And like all investments, Kickstarter projects have a chance of going bust.

So, it's obvious they underestimated the challenges they faced, but if they were con artists, the website would have gone dead 5 years ago.

Kino said:
I cannot imagine how they are having their asses handed to them in trying to get a film coating line back operating. Those things have the inertia of GOD and only a few people on this site, PE being one of them, have ANY CLUE what it takes to make emulsion and coat it flawlessly on a base, day in and day out.

+1
Totally correct!

Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

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