Ah. OK. Sorry. I thought it was PQ. Thanks though
They might have though.
Using it as a second developer sounds kind of interesting then... did you ever do that, if so... did you use regular dilutions and times?
Ah. OK. Sorry. I thought it was PQ. Thanks thoughNo, that's ID-62, dilute 1+1 for reversal FD. PQ Universal is a much more concentrated version. The problem with too much sulphite already in the developer is it doesn't make it easier for you to finesse solvent or accelerators - as you already have added a potentially troublesome variable with all that sulphite.
If Photo Formulary is still selling Dietrich's stuff without having tested it on the current TMax films and confirming that it gives good results, then it is a sorry story.
I know you said this in jest. However, using a staining developer such as Pyrocat-HD as the first developer in reversal processing is a sure way to get muddy slides and a lot of stain. Note that the stain will be maximum in the highlights (making them dull) as those regions have the highest density in the negative image. If you still want to give Pyro a try, add some sulphite to kill the stain.
It's OK to use staining developer as the second developer. You get a nice brown tone.
I'm curious if you had tried PEG as an accelerator. I know you showed me an article in the thread I posted but it seem like adding just PEG itself lowers Dmax. Now with the 3rd lockdown in the UK it's going to be hard to get access to the lab to get my hands on some PEGs. My plan now is to just clip off film leaders for TMax400 and try it with the 1.3x Microphen I have but adding different percentage of sodium thiosulfate or PEG or a combination of both. I would be interested to know if you know a PEG percentage to start experimenting with.2007. I think the problem is that everyone here is still trying to get a single solvent to do the job, when there's a huge set of potential accelerators as well - not just silver solvents like KSCN, DTOD etc, but various PEG's, other polyglycols and quaternary ammonium compounds. The latter may well be present in the 'right' quantities in some coating packages & would potentially (with the right developer etc) give significant acceleration effects. There was a case here recently of someone who had an interaction with residual wetting agent in a tank and one of the packagings of Agfa Aviphot 200S where the area that had interacted with the surfactant seemed to show significant development acceleration. Incorporated development accelerators were strongly suspected to be the major difference between Fuji Neopan 400 and 1600.
Using it as a second developer sounds kind of interesting then... did you ever do that, if so... did you use regular dilutions and times?
They might have though.
I've done this many times. I just add a couple of spoons of my pyrocat-pc concentrate to 500ml water that already has a spoon of potassium carbonate. It gives nice toned positives after about ten minutes of development.
I'm curious if you had tried PEG as an accelerator. I know you showed me an article in the thread I posted but it seem like adding just PEG itself lowers Dmax. Now with the 3rd lockdown in the UK it's going to be hard to get access to the lab to get my hands on some PEGs. My plan now is to just clip off film leaders for TMax400 and try it with the 1.3x Microphen I have but adding different percentage of sodium thiosulfate or PEG or a combination of both. I would be interested to know if you know a PEG percentage to start experimenting with.
Here's the Agfa patent for the first developer: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f7/bd/9d/6a0a4f9307d9d8/US6350563.pdf
I read through it and this is the relevant chart:
View attachment 263056
But from reading it, it does not sound like adding the PEG alone is enough:
"Surprisingly, it has now been found that the use of 5-methylbenzotriazole in combination with polyglycol P400 and hydroquinoneSulphonic acid resulted in the desired gradation curve and in usable image results."
Regarding what that means:
"P200 and P400 resulted in the lowest loss of maximum density, so that P200 and P400 appeared to be the most suitable for this developer. All further investigations were therefore performed using P400 as the development acelerator.
I'm curious if you had tried PEG as an accelerator. I know you showed me an article in the thread I posted but it seem like adding just PEG itself lowers Dmax. Now with the 3rd lockdown in the UK it's going to be hard to get access to the lab to get my hands on some PEGs. My plan now is to just clip off film leaders for TMax400 and try it with the 1.3x Microphen I have but adding different percentage of sodium thiosulfate or PEG or a combination of both. I would be interested to know if you know a PEG percentage to start experimenting with.
You want the 'Commercially Available First Developer Containing Hydroquinone' recipe. Ignore the HQMS ones derived off E-6.
Several things I note - it mostly uses potassium salts, apart from a small amount of Sodium Carbonate - not sure why yet. Possibly something to do with forming a specific HQMS salt in solution. One of the key things not given is a mixing order.
The Nitrilotriacetic Acid (the one tricky bit to get hold of) and the Dequest 2010 I had previously dismissed as insignificant and related to dealing with water quality variance - but I now wonder if the Nitrilotriacetic Acid (at least) isn't playing some sort of role in controlling the silver ion concentration in the developer. Note too that the disclosed second developer is PQ based and uses EDTA (I would not be surprised if it wasn't very close to Neutol or similar) - which suggests that if a phenidone and EDTA could have been used in the first developer, they would have been. So there have to be very specific reasons for using Nitrilotriacetic Acid and Dequest 2010.
Interesting, I see what you mean. I guess they are comparing the new developer against the one they already commercialized and that explains why it's not as good.
I am no expert, but isn't it easier usually to dissolve potassium salts? So maybe some kind of solubility issue?
I've used hypo without any problems with eFKe 100 and Kodak T-Max 100. Particularly Kodak T-Max 100 yielded very good slides, excellent contrast. at 12g of hypo per liter of first developer (that was Kodak D-19).
Here the results https://www.photo.net/379849#//Sort-Newest/All-Categories/All-Time/Page-1
Though I've found that by using that quantity of hypo Agfa Apx 100 was bad. Lowering it to 1g per liter has got me good slides.
Hypo is the silver halide solvent recommended and used by Ilford so as far as I'm concerned it's good.
I know of at least a guy (Ivo Stunga - check him out on Flickr and Instagram) who has nailed the Ilford reversal method almost to perfection, by lowering the hypo quantity and optimizing the ISO of the films he's using.
Very very good results.
Kodak T-Max 100 yielded very good slides, excellent contrast. at 12g of hypo per liter of first developer (that was Kodak D-19).
I sent Ilford an email a few days ago where I asked if there was a specific reason as to why they chose thiosulfate over thiocyanate... I havent heard from them, but when they do I'll report back.
OK. What about before permanganate bleach was used... why didnt they use thiosulfate then? It seems to me that because of the permanganate bleach this isnt really a choice... but if there is a choice thiocyanate is preferrable?Very simple reason why: it's the most obtainable silver solvent that won't release HCN on meeting the permanganate bleach. KSCN was replaced by DTOD in Kodak's cinema reversal process for that reason too.
if there is a choice thiocyanate is preferrable?
Thiocyanate seems to be the preferred halide solvent going by old formulas and Haist. There's a good technical explanation of the role thiocyanate plays in the first developer in Haist volume 2. Worth reading.
OK. What about before permanganate bleach was used... why didnt they use thiosulfate then? It seems to me that because of the permanganate bleach this isnt really a choice... but if there is a choice thiocyanate is preferrable?
Dichromate bleaches don't seem to have the potential to release HCN from KSCN in the FD. There are lengthy threads on here that cover the chemistry in detail.
The other thing to consider is that KSCN etc may not be as good a choice today - there's a long list of development accelerators that can effectively do the same thing - and the 'success' or otherwise of some reversal processes may be because some of these accelerators are also being used as surfactants in the emulsion (or for that matter as development accelerators). The strange patterns that people report appearing on film processed in tanks that are still contaminated with wetting agent occur because the surfactant is having an acceleration effect on the development rate.
This weekend I intend to try first developers with the things I have on hand: propylene glycol, ADOX Adoflo, Kodak Photo Flo to see if there is anything noticeable. Not sure exactly how much to add, so will mess with it a bit. I remember from Mark Overton's Mocon thread that propylene glycol was working as an accelerator when in enough concentration.
The other thing to consider is that KSCN etc may not be as good a choice today - there's a long list of development accelerators that can effectively do the same thing
not all are going to be accelerators with all developers. I suspect there might be an improvement, but not a significant one.
I remember from Mark Overton's Mocon thread that propylene glycol was working as an accelerator when in enough concentration.
Haist says thiocyanate is also a development accelerator and an incorporated development accelerator in some films.
Some combinations of accelerator and developer produce undesirable level of base fog thereby diminishing the DMax and possibly reducing the speed. Even Agfa-Gavert patent had some combinations that didn't do well and needed special restrainers.
I'd start at 1ml/l and go up or down from there. From the literature, it doesn't seem to take a lot to have a significant effect - and not all are going to be accelerators with all developers. I suspect there might be an improvement, but not a significant one - you may need a higher molecular weight PEG or derivative.
I used a modified Ilford reversal process back then, it was in 2004.@Alessandro Serrao: Tmax 100 seems to excel in DR5 process without any speed loss and without needing any halide solvent.
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