B&W film, ISO and airport x-ray scanners

[koraks]

How do you get to that conclusion?

Read back.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree. You think there's a EU policy pertaining to film going through security checks at European airports. I don't.

 

[Agulliver]

Haha Delta was my favourite airline for some years. They're still in consideration when I fly to/around the USA. Though current favourite is American, who have not only provided consistently great service but one specific incident last year points them out to be specifically a good company.

As for regional directives, I will remind everyone that the UK Department for Transport has issued a notice to all UK civil airports stating that photographic film should be hand inspected upon request. They have stated they're aware of Ilford and Kodak's concerns and want to work with passengers to avoid any problems.

Over in the USA, the TSA has a longstanding agreement that hand inspection of any cabin bags can be requested. I've never asked but I understand such requests are normally accepted.

Hand inspection isn't really a thing at most European airports but what I suggest people do is get in contact with your airports and national transport bodies. That's exactly how I got the letter from the DfT regarding hand inspections at UK airports. It is likely that some airports will be reluctant to discuss the details of their security arrangements, but if you state that you're aware of the forthcoming implementation of new CT scanners for hand/cabin baggage and are concerned about travelling with photographic film (plates/paper/whatever) they will probably be more helpful than if you ask specifics about their scanners and regimen.

 

[jay moussy]

Would only carrying (ultra) low speed be a good strategy?

I will be visiting family soon, Boston>Zurich>Geneva, and considering casual landscape, street photo only, Nikon N80.

I found that there is a camera club co-op (sounds cool!) downtown Geneva that accept visitors' processing time in darkroom.

 

[MattKing]

I found that there is a camera club co-op (sounds cool!) downtown Geneva that accept visitors' processing time in darkroom.

Sounds like a great place to visit no matter what your airport scanning concerns might be.

 

[jay moussy]

Sounds like a great place to visit no matter what your airport scanning concerns might be.

I am just passing through Zurich, and Geneva is familiar, as I went to tech school there, yet, I do not "click" much there. I grew up by the French border town next to it, and my sister will take me to visit a number of cousins, fun. Area is a great gateway to great destinations... like train out to Venice!

 

[pentaxuser]

Radost said:
"It also possible that border agent was racist or a nazi to give me all those problems."

He may have just been a nasty of course. There are plenty of them and usually they treat everybody equally - badly that is

pentaxuser

 

[BrianShaw]

Radost said:
It also possible that border agent was racist or a nazi to give me all those problems. He may have just been a nasty of course. There are plenty of them and usually they treat everybody equally - badly that is

pentaxuser

Another option is that the person is an overworked and underpaid drone who’s bored to death with their thankless job and doesn’t care to be bothered by annoying and/or self-entitled know-it-alls…

I’ve had a full range of experiences over the years. On average, they just want to get folks through the process with a minimum of hassle.

Flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant must be more fulfilling than that job!

 

[koraks]

On average, they just want to get folks through the process with a minimum of hassle.

My experience as well. If you make things easy and smooth on them, they're likely to reciprocate.

 

[snusmumriken]

Is posting exposed films to your destination or home an option? I have no idea whether cargo gets x-rayed or scanned.

 

[Agulliver]

Lower speed film will be less affected by any X-rays than high speed film. But as I've said, if you're going through an airport using the older (non-CT) scanners you can take Delta 3200 or TMZ without any worries. That said, if you want to be a little cautious and know you're photographing in sunlight....then use a slower film.

I don't believe anyone has ever had issues with film mailed using regular international mail services.

Regarding security staff at airports, I've never once encountered objectionable behaviour from them. The caveat is that I am a white man, large in stature and frame so perhaps my demographic and body type is less likely than others to be on the receiving end of bad treatment. But, I always go through the airport with an air of compliance. The staff are just trying to do their job and I'm just trying to get to my destination. Sometimes they're unsure about something in my bag, I'm fine if they want to give it or me another check. I comply with a cheerful attitude.

Spousal unit on the other hand is surly and sees airport security as an imposition and hassle. It shows in her attitude. And more often than not she's pulled up for extra scans, pat downs, the odd snarky remark which results in a snarky comeback from her....which then usually results in another extra check.

Honestly I think passenger attitude is a huge part of how you're treated by the staff. Though I don't discount racism as a possible factor. I am yet to travel around the USA with my Hispanic partner, which may be eye-opening. She's considered white in Europe.

 

[jay moussy]

A funny aside: did anybody notice the large clear plastic bins at European airports, holding forbidden goods held back from passenger carry-ons... filled with top quality hand tools?

I both drool and cry a little, every time I go by one!

 

[brbo]

Another positive experience with the TSA (Dallas/Fort Worth Airport). Even though, by the looks of it, the scanner wasn't one of the newer CT scanners, I asked the staff if the machine was safe for film. To my surprise the guy asked me "what film?". I answered that some of my rolls were fairly fast and then he said that what he wanted to know was if the film was developed or undeveloped and suggested that they do hand inspection for undeveloped film.

I tried that twice in Europe and were told that their machines (smaller airports in Klagenfurt and Graz) won't harm film and so the hand check was not an option. They were right, though. Film was fine.

 

[koraks]

Just read a report on a Dutch forum of an amateur photographer who traveled between Amsterdam-Schiphol (NL) to South Korea (I assume Seoul) and Japan (Narita). He carried his film in clear ziplock bags with the Kodak warning label they issued some time ago. In all instances he was granted a manual inspection without any problems.

 

[MattKing]

A funny aside: did anybody notice the large clear plastic bins at European airports, holding forbidden goods held back from passenger carry-ons... filled with top quality hand tools?

I both drool and cry a little, every time I go by one!

Because everyone needs a good saw and chisel at hand if they fly economy?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Lower speed film will be less affected by any X-rays than high speed film. But as I've said, if you're going through an airport using the older (non-CT) scanners you can take Delta 3200 or TMZ without any worries. That said, if you want to be a little cautious and know you're photographing in sunlight....then use a slower film.

I don't believe anyone has ever had issues with film mailed using regular international mail services.

Regarding security staff at airports, I've never once encountered objectionable behaviour from them. The caveat is that I am a white man, large in stature and frame so perhaps my demographic and body type is less likely than others to be on the receiving end of bad treatment. But, I always go through the airport with an air of compliance. The staff are just trying to do their job and I'm just trying to get to my destination. Sometimes they're unsure about something in my bag, I'm fine if they want to give it or me another check. I comply with a cheerful attitude.

Spousal unit on the other hand is surly and sees airport security as an imposition and hassle. It shows in her attitude. And more often than not she's pulled up for extra scans, pat downs, the odd snarky remark which results in a snarky comeback from her....which then usually results in another extra check.

Honestly I think passenger attitude is a huge part of how you're treated by the staff. Though I don't discount racism as a possible factor. I am yet to travel around the USA with my Hispanic partner, which may be eye-opening. She's considered white in Europe.

I am a white man of smaller statue. When I politely requested a hand search at Charles DeGaulle airport a few years ago, it got back full belligerence and a threat with arrest. I responded quietly and calmly, and got the same response. I drew myself up to my full height and responded in French with a string of profanity. That seemed to reset his registers, but I still did not get a hand inspection. Instead from then on I was treated with respect.

 

[pentaxuser]

I am a white man of smaller statue. When I politely requested a hand search at Charles DeGaulle airport a few years ago, it got back full belligerence and a threat with arrest. I responded quietly and calmly, and got the same response. I drew myself up to my full height and responded in French with a string of profanity. That seemed to reset his registers, but I still did not get a hand inspection. Instead from then on I was treated with respect.

Sirius,what do you take as the moral of that story, swearing at a Frenchman gets respect as long as it is in French but polite requests in English risk arrest?

So that is another airport off my "bucket list" At my age I cannot afford any time in prison

pentaxuser

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I am a white man of smaller statue. When I politely requested a hand search at Charles DeGaulle airport a few years ago, it got back full belligerence and a threat with arrest. I responded quietly and calmly, and got the same response. I drew myself up to my full height and responded in French with a string of profanity. That seemed to reset his registers, but I still did not get a hand inspection. Instead from then on I was treated with respect.

And there I thought just showing the Hasselblad would be enough to be treated with respect...

 

[Agulliver]

The French people certainly do appreciate you at least trying to speak French with them. I have invariably found that even a bad attempt at French gains respect compared to my own countrymen's usual tactic of shouting loudly in English. Even though most French people speak perfectly good English, they appreciate you trying.....even if your language was rather colourful.

I dunno...I've just never had any issues with airport security. I am not the most travelled person but I did lose count of how many flights I have taken when my Palm Pilot died way back in 2011. I think I was on something like 140 commercial airline flights at that point.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I had said something like "Pourquoi agissez-vous comme si vous aviez été élevé par une mère célibataire. Aussi, s'il vous plaît, arrêtez de chier dans le lit." That definitely got their attention and changed their attitude.

 

[Radost]

Read back.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree. You think there's a EU policy pertaining to film going through security checks at European airports. I don't.

I don’t think there is official policy. It might be a recommendation. But the document and the situation seamed legit. You think a German border agent printed a fake document mentioning film under 1600iso are safe to go through the scan?

 

[koraks]

@Radost I don't have much to add to what I already said - and this includes the 'fake document' remark; we've been over that already. You were there, I wasn't. Based on what you wrote here of your observations, my interpretation is different from yours. It's very far-fetched and illogical that the EC would issue even a recommendation of what film to run through xray scanners. It's basically none of their business. Repeated searches on EU policies along these lines have turned up zilch. I just don't think it's there.

 

[Daniela]

"Pourquoi agissez-vous comme si vous aviez été élevé par une mère célibataire.

Holy misogyny, Batman...

 

[Radost]

@Radost I don't have much to add to what I already said - and this includes the 'fake document' remark; we've been over that already. You were there, I wasn't. Based on what you wrote here of your observations, my interpretation is different from yours. It's very far-fetched and illogical that the EC would issue even a recommendation of what film to run through xray scanners. It's basically none of their business. Repeated searches on EU policies along these lines have turned up zilch. I just don't think it's there.

So you are pretty much accusing me of being illiterate. Yes English is my 4th language but i think I can manage comprehending “films under 1600iso are safe to go through the scanner“.
I dont know if the EU or the scanner manufacturer issued it. I dont know if the Germans did.
I really dont care who did how.
The fact is they showed me a document and made me scan all my film but my 10 TMAX3200s.
I did not have anything on the negatives.

 

[GregY]

Holy misogyny, Batman...

The picture perfect image of the "Ugly American"

 

[Sirius Glass]

The picture perfect image of the "Ugly American"

Or a stubborn French man. I started a polite, the employee was the one that threatened. Great job of blaming the victim!