B/W film in summer for urban documentary project, and come kit critique please

RezaLoghme · Jul 12, 2024

Today, I receive the scans. 5 out of 24 were really good. I am getting used to the Sonnar's character. Exposure is still a dog. But I am getting there. What worked well was adding +1 EV to what ever the meter read.

MattKing · Jul 12, 2024

RezaLoghme said:
Today, I receive the scans. 5 out of 24 were really good. I am getting used to the Sonnar's character. Exposure is still a dog. But I am getting there.What worked well was adding +1 EV to what ever the meter read.

Glad you are happy with them.
I know that there is probably a small language issue involved, but I can't help but be entertained by your phrase "Exposure is still a dog". It really gives a good sense of the matter, even if you aren't using exactly the words I would use.

RezaLoghme · Jul 12, 2024

What words would you use, Matt.

MattKing · Jul 12, 2024

RezaLoghme said:
What words would you use, Matt.

I'll respond to this, even though we really prefer that people don't use Photrio threads for off-topic personal discussions.
And yes, I know that I started this!
I would say instead something like:
"Exposure accuracy was poor or inconsistent".
The dog reference is a bit challenging, because I like dogs, and all the dogs I have ever had were well behaved, but my sense is that you were using it in the way someone might use that label to refer to a person as someone who is untrustworthy or unreliable. I have also seen it used to describe a thing - e.g. camera or lens - as being a poor performer. Usually though, you don't see it used in reference to a result or process.
To be technical, it is used more as an adjective or noun, not an adverb.
But I still like how you used it.

chuckroast · Jul 12, 2024

RezaLoghme said:
Today, I receive the scans. 5 out of 24 were really good. I am getting used to the Sonnar's character. Exposure is still a dog. But I am getting there. What worked well was adding +1 EV to what ever the meter read.

Without knowing the particulars it's hard to know why that dog is biting you.

Everyone has their own exposure discipline, but for monochrome film (never color), I set the ASA on the meter at 1/2 box speed and underdevelop 20% against recommended time/temp. This tend to produce good B&W negatives in normal ranges of light.

eli griggs · Jul 13, 2024

With b&w, a full stop over exposure is very often recommended.

I rate colour films at ⅓ box speed for better saturation, and apply polarizer settings to that result.

I can't remember if I've used N.D. on colour films, but today I have more on hand than ever before.

RezaLoghme · Jul 13, 2024

I guess if you have worked with Hasseblads or other MF SLRs, the whole issue of camera shake/mirror slap is nothing new for you. Combine that with a longer lens, handheld, and then you probably agree that the shutter times have to be somewhat fast, but even with a ISO 400 film that can sometimes a bit tricky.

eli griggs · Jul 13, 2024

RezaLoghme said:
I guess if you have worked with Hasseblads or other MF SLRs, the whole issue of camera shake/mirror slap is nothing new for you. Combine that with a longer lens, handheld, and then you probably agree that the shutter times have to be somewhat fast, but even with a ISO 400 film that can sometimes a bit tricky.

A really good reason to keep a top quality telescoping monopod with you and you're kit, as well as a couple of other stability aids and use them every chance you can.

Folks seem to underrate and dismiss out of hand the combination of the monopod and other stable devices for good photographic work, but keep in mind, even with digital cameras, professional sports photographers can be seen at any football, soccer, tennis match, etc, using the monopod with long focal length lenses, etc.

I believe new, novice and mid-level experienced
photographers that have never used a monopod, intelligently, fail to grasp how beneficial and effectively they can be used and that's a shame, and one reason they will continue to produce fuzzy imaged or not chance a great shot at all because you think it'll come out badly.

Practice makes for better abilities at better stability in focusing, so go out and shot a roll of film or two just to learn how and exercise your skills, which will give you practical training in quickly deploying the best tool ever, short of an actual tripod.

RezaLoghme · Jul 14, 2024

You are right. At the same time, I am aware of the potential mis-reading of a monopod as a "weapon" and then again it might actually be useful.

eli griggs · Jul 14, 2024

RezaLoghme said:
You are right. At the same time, I am aware of the potential mis-reading of a monopod as a "weapon" and then again it might actually be useful.

So, when not used for a Hasselblad or other 'prime' camera, keep a small, lightweight point and shoot, like the Olympus XA-2 or Stylist one the threaded camera mount or perhaps, a Hasselblad rapid mount/removal adapter, and actually shoot a few frames each day to prove your intended use.

RezaLoghme · Jul 14, 2024

How long should I do this "look, its just a monopod" exercise? Couple of weeks to be on the safe side?

Don_ih · Jul 15, 2024

You can't move through a crowd with a monopod.

RezaLoghme · Jul 15, 2024

Maybe leaving the monopod at home might be a better idea.

grain elevator · Jul 15, 2024

I can imagine a monopod would be read as a weapon by protesters, but especially and problematically by police. Kinda resembles, and could be used as, a telescoping baton and that would probably be their first association as per their deformation professionelle.

MattKing · Jul 15, 2024

Stick souvenir travel or sports team tickers on the monopod - Disneyland would be a good choice!

RezaLoghme · Jul 15, 2024

Totally! It is well known all over the world.

RezaLoghme · Jul 15, 2024

Tonight I have re-read Ara Güler's book about Istanbul. It has helped me to re-think my concept of sharpness. Most of his photographs are grainy, some have blurred objects (e.g. doves, children playing). I will have to un-learn the sharpness of contemporary photography first, and then start afresh.

Furthermore, I read that Güler used a "Summicron", which existed both in 35mm and 50mm when he took the photos. Most (short) articles about him seem to have re-used the few facts from each other.

But I will investigate further.

eli griggs · Jul 15, 2024

RezaLoghme said:
How long should I do this "look, its just a monopod" exercise? Couple of weeks to be on the safe side?

Long enough to learn how to move it with yourself, without hitting other folks.

Long enough to learn how to quickly employ its full length, relative to your body, without dropping kit or having to search each time for a place or spaces to put up other items, ie, the point and shoot you've just switched out for the larger camera.

Long enough how to travel with it and have a routine that includes, shooting with your bag(s), meter, filters, lens shade, secured so, others will not have the opportunity to walk away with any part of your gear, in a fraction of a second.

Long enough to both learn how to change Hasselblad backs and, to hold it secure while loading and unloading a magazine back, lens or change a filter, of each type you carry.

Long enough to learn how to quickly adjust it's length to,
1) A one knee down shooting position,
2) Amid-level (belly button position of your target)
3) A relative position of a full length extension for your height, both with the waist level at a 90⁰ viewing position and a stable lockdown view through the WLF
4) a long overhead, "Hail Mary" CROWD shot with a longer plunger type cable
5) disassembly of small and large (MF) camera kit from pod, while keeping positive control of every other kit item
6) Long enough to learn how to lean the monopod forward w/camera and neck strap around neck or shoulders, which helps eliminate wandering lenses and stabilize the camera in place for shooting, from both a free standing position and with your back against a static wall, truck side, butt only against a car, etc, so there's little movement in the camera/lenses.

A number of these exercises can be done together, the point is to practice this "manual of arms" with monopod and cameras, in real-world conditions.

For some, practice is not needed, and smooth handling natural talent does happen, but with occasionally used kit, many people need to learn by doing what is needed to get the maximum benefits of a sharpened of image and the use of it in the many situations that can arise.

Cheers,
Eli

eli griggs · Jul 15, 2024

Don_ih said:
You can't move through a crowd with a monopod.

Practiced Photographers move just fine, through crowds, with monopod deployed, all the time, just watch well covered media being documented by photographers.

It's a simple thing to allow the camera bag and monopod to move with you, with the monopod held smugly in front of you, midline to your front body, in the natural 'personal space' most people maintain in such groups.

The biggest thing is to not trip on your own kit or feet, and using a secure strap so the camera and monopod does not get torn away with the excitement of the crowd.

Practice in public is the way to learn this and other things you need to know and just because others poo learning to use such equipment or carrying it at all, never means you shouldn't try using it yourself.

After all, who's better at deciding a thing than you?

RezaLoghme · Jul 16, 2024

Given the overall setting of the project, there will be no monopod. Thanks.
LOL

Don_ih · Jul 16, 2024

eli griggs said:
Practiced Photographers move just fine, through crowds, with monopod deployed, all the time

Yes, it's a great idea to spend your time making sure you're not tripping people rather than looking for photos.

BrianShaw · Jul 16, 2024

Don_ih said:
Yes, it's a great idea to spend your time making sure you're not tripping people rather than looking for photos.

It's a bit of a moot point since @RezaLoghme has decided to forgoe the monopod option, but as an avid monopod user over several decades I can assure you that nobidy has been tripped by mine. When not in use, and when in use as well, the monopod is positioned between my legs and feet. I suppose of someone were to tries crawling between my legs there maybe an issue...

If this was a tripod discussion, then I'd be in violent agreement!

RezaLoghme · Jul 16, 2024

Thank you.
Monopod maybe for another mission.

Don_ih · Jul 16, 2024

@BrianShaw -- do you have it on a camera as you're trying to use that camera to take photos of a milling crowd of protesters, while moving through the crowd?

RezaLoghme · Jul 16, 2024

Lets ditch the monopod idea.

B/W film in summer for urban documentary project, and come kit critique please

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B/W film in summer for urban documentary project, and come kit critique please

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