B&W film developing

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TareqPhoto

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I will try hard to find if anyone can develop film by himself here in my area so i can understand the steps and know better, i watched those youtube videos about developing film and it seems so interesting, but also i am worry about to be careful or accurate about the time and the temperature of the processing, but i don't know if i will find one :-(
 
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TareqPhoto

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And good i asked questions as i was going to load films in daylight or unloading it in daylight, but i passed this mistakes after i had asking questions and reading, and i am not ready for developing myself even i got the basics here and it seems not difficult to do alone, but i have time for developing, now i should care or focus on how to shoot proper exposure with film then worry later about developing.
 

olleorama

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There will almost certainly exist photography books either written in or translated to your native language. Do a google search, or search your local online bookstore.

You will expose your film according to how you will develop it later, and it is quite nice to learn it at the same time.
 
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TareqPhoto

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There will almost certainly exist photography books either written in or translated to your native language. Do a google search, or search your local online bookstore.

You will expose your film according to how you will develop it later, and it is quite nice to learn it at the same time.

OK, we will see.
 

michaelbsc

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... i am worry about to be careful or accurate about the time and the temperature of the processing...

When you just start out, get as close as possible to the published time and temperature, but don't worry about it.

Repeatable time and temperature control is important for consistent results, but in the beginning you have so many things happening that are new it's not even worth considering. Get as close as you reasonably can and just do it. No one starts out as a master. You have to make mistakes to learn.

As an old guy I knew told me, you learn to walk by falling down. Just do it, and you'll begin to get the hang of it. It's no harder than riding a bicycle, but you have to learn it just like riding a bicycle.

Watch Jason's videos more than once. You'll get more out of them.

Michael
 
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TareqPhoto

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When you just start out, get as close as possible to the published time and temperature, but don't worry about it.

Repeatable time and temperature control is important for consistent results, but in the beginning you have so many things happening that are new it's not even worth considering. Get as close as you reasonably can and just do it. No one starts out as a master. You have to make mistakes to learn.

As an old guy I knew told me, you learn to walk by falling down. Just do it, and you'll begin to get the hang of it. It's no harder than riding a bicycle, but you have to learn it just like riding a bicycle.

Watch Jason's videos more than once. You'll get more out of them.

Michael

Yes Sir!!!

Time time time!!! :D:wink:
Practice practice practice :tongue:
 

verney

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Sorry, i didn't know that it is for color, and i think i misunderstood what is written in the website from reviews maybe that this chemicals [C-41] is used for color and B&W.
C-41 is a process used for developing color negatives. However there are B&W films in the market that are processed in C-41 chemicals. Main selling point in these special films is that they can be processed in any photo lab you can find.

Conventional B&W films are not widely accepted in photo labs because process is not a standard. Different films require different developing times and some film/developer combinations work better than others. This is not what photo labs want to do.

Conventional B&W process however is way easier to do at home than C-41.
 

Denis R

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seems you need a bit of hand holding

So with a developer, fixer and wash i can develop the B&W film? [Good that in this photog. club, a service boy is my friend who likes to help me in many things there, he was the first one i shoot him with a studio lighting and he helping me to place lights where i want for still life table shooting and so, i will use him to help me in developing and he is smart enough so he may develop my film in the future for me without i go to do it myself].

service boy lab assistant? :wink:

refer to (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

use tank
122985.jpg

use with reel
122989.jpg


the large loading ramps makes loading by feel easier :smile: no more getting :mad: because the film won't load after you realize the reel was backwards and would never load :wink:

guide to darkroom equipment ignore the sales pitch

the more paper you have in one place at one time, the greater the chance of it all being ruined at the same time

from a roll or big box of paper, put about 10 - 30 sheets in a smaller box


run an all analog darkroom, leave cell phones i-pods, etc outside
in my darkroom, there is a turntable and records, and an "all american 5" tube radio
can't beat a time-o-lite for enlarging
M72.gif


the gralab is good for long times, semi-automated process control
images
 
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TareqPhoto

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service boy lab assistant? :wink:

refer to (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

use tank
122985.jpg

use with reel
122989.jpg


the large loading ramps makes loading by feel easier :smile: no more getting :mad: because the film won't load after you realize the reel was backwards and would never load :wink:

guide to darkroom equipment ignore the sales pitch

the more paper you have in one place at one time, the greater the chance of it all being ruined at the same time

from a roll or big box of paper, put about 10 - 30 sheets in a smaller box


run an all analog darkroom, leave cell phones i-pods, etc outside
in my darkroom, there is a turntable and records, and an "all american 5" tube radio
can't beat a time-o-lite for enlarging
M72.gif


the gralab is good for long times, semi-automated process control
images

I like this post, give me more details on what to get for developing, OK, both are here anyway, i saw my friend developing box which including all the equipment needed, so i will buy same exactly equipment except the chemicals that may changed.

Thank you very much for you help :smile:
 

Denis R

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hand holding part 2

all is based on my own personal kit

accordian bottles for DEVELOPERS
21mb2vzhQ0L._SL500_AA200_.jpg

the gallon size is good for d-76, each level is approx. 10 oz
use different sizes and types for different developers
the bottle is like a wet noodle after filling with friesh mixed d-76, and will not support itself -- so put in something that will let it stand

Dead Link Removed
is the other type, but does not stay collapsed
use matching bottles for two part dev. brew

to measure, a 10 oz. graduate works best

Dead Link Removed
mine are samigon 11 oz and 2 oz

I started off measuring with 1 qt. measuring cup
MeasuringCup32oz55178OL_Main245x225.jpg

still use it to pour in combined d-76 and water into dev. tank

another useful measuring glass is the 5 oz. version
5ozMeasureGlass_Zoom.jpg

it is now used to hold the thermomer while not in use

thermometer is essential
6092_thumb.jpg

taylor 6092 has range of 0 to 220
accurate enough, water proof, easy to read

a funnel makes for pouring chemicals into bottles easier, less spillage
8320955.jpg

the "radiator funnel" fits into bottle opening perfectly, don't have to hold funnel while pouring, and has large opening to allow fast pouring

clear jugs are good to see how much USED DEVELOPER you have
image049.jpg

mine was an empty washer fluid jug

you will also want a large supply of tempered water
Dead Link Removed
I use approx. 1 gallon to process 2 rolls of film in the tank each time
the spigot makes for easy filling for rinse water
I acquired 2 round 20l 5 gallon containers from a campus darkroom that closed down, asset recovery -- surplus sales

for a tempered water bath, refer to (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Bellco_HotShaker.jpg

I keep finding more uses for mine

out of image allotment, stay tuned for part 3
 
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TareqPhoto

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all is based on my own personal kit

accordian bottles for DEVELOPERS
21mb2vzhQ0L._SL500_AA200_.jpg

the gallon size is good for d-76, each level is approx. 10 oz
use different sizes and types for different developers
the bottle is like a wet noodle after filling with friesh mixed d-76, and will not support itself -- so put in something that will let it stand

Dead Link Removed
is the other type, but does not stay collapsed
use matching bottles for two part dev. brew

to measure, a 10 oz. graduate works best

Dead Link Removed
mine are samigon 11 oz and 2 oz

I started off measuring with 1 qt. measuring cup
MeasuringCup32oz55178OL_Main245x225.jpg

still use it to pour in combined d-76 and water into dev. tank

another useful measuring glass is the 5 oz. version
5ozMeasureGlass_Zoom.jpg

it is now used to hold the thermomer while not in use

thermometer is essential
6092_thumb.jpg

taylor 6092 has range of 0 to 220
accurate enough, water proof, easy to read

a funnel makes for pouring chemicals into bottles easier, less spillage
8320955.jpg

the "radiator funnel" fits into bottle opening perfectly, don't have to hold funnel while pouring, and has large opening to allow fast pouring

clear jugs are good to see how much USED DEVELOPER you have
image049.jpg

mine was an empty washer fluid jug

you will also want a large supply of tempered water
Dead Link Removed
I use approx. 1 gallon to process 2 rolls of film in the tank each time
the spigot makes for easy filling for rinse water
I acquired 2 round 20l 5 gallon containers from a campus darkroom that closed down, asset recovery -- surplus sales

for a tempered water bath, refer to (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Bellco_HotShaker.jpg

I keep finding more uses for mine

out of image allotment, stay tuned for part 3

I have created a wish list on B&H website for my film, so i added some items you listed and more, but some here i didn't add as i feel i don't want to afford many or everything for developing, with all those items you posted now i feel i shouldn't start until i have all the required equipment to start developing at home, and i can't turn a room or a kitchen at house into a lab and i should change something for that purpose, what i am thinking now in my list is to start with those items to choose:

1. Tank
2. Reel
3. dark changing bag
4. measurement items [Thermometer, measuring cub,...etc]
5. The Chemicals [Developers, Fixers, Stop, whatever more i need,...etc]
6. Film storages [for unloaded/undeveloped film to be developed later and for developed film]
7. Storage items [for the chemicals, the tank and gloves and glasses,....etc]

Later will see what more items or equipment i should add here
 

Denis R

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hand holding part 3

once the films are processed, they need to hang to dry
large binder clips work good, such as universal 10220

base_media

once film is done drying, simply pull to remove, don't have to climb up to release

you will want a light box to view the negatives
an x-ray viewer works well
Dead Link Removed
best to buy the biggest you can handle

to make cutting negatives easier...
put this little gem on the lightbox

84640.jpg

better than trying to use a large paper cutter or scissors

unless you want to do everything in the dark, you will need some safelights

this one will illuninate the area nicely
43174.jpg

and the light is good enough to read a newspaper!

this one works well to see the prints after fixer
28920.jpg

be sure to use a OO filter and 4 watt bulb for best results
when I got mine, it had a 75 watt blacklight bulb and a piece of paper over the filter

use a paper safe to store "working amounts" of paper
65430.jpg

they can also be used to store film

the plastic crate will hold 4 - 1 gallon jugs and 4 small ilford bottles
base_media

cheap and easy, the square kind don't work as well

for storing processed negatives and contact sheets
the universal 35260 works well

images

a description of contents and contact sheet can be put on the outside with double stick tape

double stick tape comes in two flavors
Dead Link Removed
removable and permanent

a paper cutter with adjustable stop makes short work of cutting timing strips and sheets from bulk rolls of paper
Dead Link Removed
this one goes on sale for about $12, capacity one sheet of photo paper
more expensive cutters also struggle with multiple sheets, and will tear instead of cut
 
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TareqPhoto

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Thank you very much Denis
I read about that all from the B&H, now the question do i really need all of that? that are too much things, i know maybe for the best accurate results, but if i can't or didn't afford all of these, can't i start to develop then?
Also i am still didn't shoot one film yet, so i will be shoot with rolls, not papers or sheet, i will worry about that later if i will start to shoot with paper unless it doesn't matter if paper or rolls.
About safelight, when i can use safelight? and will it affect the film undeveloped? if after developing the film doesn't affected by any light even the sun so why i will use safelight? i want to use the safelight to see something better than the full dark ofcourse, but when it is allowed to use that safelight, from the beginning, or after the fixer or at the end or when exactly? I was thinking about something to do to help me in full dark, honestly i will tell you that the hardest part which may be easy for you all is when i unload the film from the camera and put in on the reel, either in full dark room or even in that changing dark bag i can't place the film on reel and put it on the tank, i know myself i will not do it properly at all if i can't see my hand, you people can do it blindly but i can't, and as you all say that i must place the film on reel in full dark, so i will let someone else to do that for me and i can do the rest, using the chemicals on certain temperature and time is not that difficult because i was always close to perfect on Chemistry lab workshops and tests during studying in the university and i love chemistry.

The question is, if i didn't use all that equipment will i get bad results maybe? some of you saying that with developer and fixer i will get it, then why do much further process after that, what will happen after the developer and fixer? or you mean after the fixer the film is no longer sensitive to the light so then i can do any more develop process under light?
 
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TareqPhoto

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As a B&W film developing all of you said it is easy than color, ok good, but why it is easier? Also you telling me to go with D-76 for B&W as starting as well, why? is it easiest method or no much long time processing or why recommend me to start with D-76 for example and not something else?

Let me go in details so i can arrange what i can do later.
Let's pass the equipment rather than the chemicals and go directly to the chemicals, can you answer me straight forward so i can follow better way?

Developer: your recommend [for starter and for better one, don't give me one chemical for starter only, tell me all what is used so i can choose if i should go with simple or more complicated, i like to learn on many things, i will start with one for sure but i don't want to come back later and ask you what else i can use, so tell me all developers can be fine to be used for B&W]
Fixer: Again, all what is recommended to use
Stop: some added this and some just ignored it, so tell me what the stop do for the developing and recommend me stop chemicals
Wash: What is wash and what i need for wash
Anything else: in addition to above, what more chemicals i need to complete the developing?
I want the answer in brief and straight forward, do tell me to go and read books or giving me many links to read about all the chemicals in the world and so

so this is the first step, to know the type and name of chemicals i need, later i will ask about the time or amount of those chemicals to be used, and i think those chemicals coming with guide brochures or time table and so for amount and measurements to be used, so i will know more when i will read them later.

Also using different chemicals for only B&W film developing, does it need certain conditions? I mean if i use method one the i must use this and that with that measurement and that time? I got lost when some of you gave me links for tables about each developers or chemicals time or measurement for different film, i will keep this table, but until now i don't know if i should with D-76 first or something else, and why D-76 in specific? What about ID-11? Why not Ilfotec developers, Perceptol, Microphen? Ilfosol? I have Kodak film, so why not use T-Max process? I heard Xtol is very nice as well, is it difficult to start with or need something else more than D-76? There are many processing method maybe, but really i don't know why and when you use one method over the others, all what i get from you is to use this method because it is east to start with, easy for what and why easy? I hope you don't feel annoyed with all these questions and wouldn't mind to answer me in simple understandable way, giving me long paragraph of the explanation even it is necessary or must maybe may not help as i know i will not read all on time, i asked those few questions because the quick or short answers will give me more understandable idea about it, answer it that way even you feel it is incomplete better than i get so long answers or links to another places to read and i don't do, be patient with me please and sure you will help me with whatever you can.
 

ozphoto

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Tareq,

To start off developing your own film you really only need the following:
  • Developing tank
  • Reels
  • Developer
  • Stop Bath
  • Fixer
  • Washaid eg: Photoflo
  • Thermometer
  • Measuring jug to mix chemicals
  • 3x smaller jugs to measure out the required amount for each process (dev, stop, fix)
  • Bulldog clips to hang the film
  • Timer
The rest is very nice to have, but not necessary. As long as you have a dark area (no light at all) where you can load your film, you can process just about anywhere - I've done it in a hotel bathroom more than once, blocking the light at the bottom of the door with rolled up towels!

Follow the film manufacturer's instructions for times and recommended film developer - this is a good starting point. You can experiment later, once you have the basics sorted.

Ensure you have a routine - that way you won't accidentally put the fixer in before the developer and completely ruin your film!

I usually measure each process out, but keep the dev and tank to one side with the stop bath and fixer on the other. It helps to label each jug too - that way you will know which liquid is in which jug (as long as you have poured them into the correct jugs to start with.):D

Final wash takes place in the sink and I add some PhotoFlo at the end for about 30secs to aid in drying and reduce the chance of streaks and water droplet spots.

Don't rush - take your time measuring and pouring. Time and temp are important too - the higher the temp, the shorter the development time. Again start with the film manufacturers' recommendations first - save the experimenting until later.

This chart shows changes in development times vs. temperature
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/tl_devtimebtemp.php

Above all - have fun! That's what it is all about. :smile:
 
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TareqPhoto

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Tareq,

To start off developing your own film you really only need the following:
  • Developing tank
  • Reels
  • Developer
  • Stop Bath
  • Fixer
  • Washaid eg: Photoflo
  • Thermometer
  • Measuring jug to mix chemicals
  • 3x smaller jugs to measure out the required amount for each process (dev, stop, fix)
  • Bulldog clips to hang the film
  • Timer
The rest is very nice to have, but not necessary. As long as you have a dark area (no light at all) where you can load your film, you can process just about anywhere - I've done it in a hotel bathroom more than once, blocking the light at the bottom of the door with rolled up towels!

Follow the film manufacturer's instructions for times and recommended film developer - this is a good starting point. You can experiment later, once you have the basics sorted.

Ensure you have a routine - that way you won't accidentally put the fixer in before the developer and completely ruin your film!

I usually measure each process out, but keep the dev and tank to one side with the stop bath and fixer on the other. It helps to label each jug too - that way you will know which liquid is in which jug (as long as you have poured them into the correct jugs to start with.):D

Final wash takes place in the sink and I add some PhotoFlo at the end for about 30secs to aid in drying and reduce the chance of streaks and water droplet spots.

Don't rush - take your time measuring and pouring. Time and temp are important too - the higher the temp, the shorter the development time. Again start with the film manufacturers' recommendations first - save the experimenting until later.

This chart shows changes in development times vs. temperature
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/tl_devtimebtemp.php

Above all - have fun! That's what it is all about. :smile:

OK, i will buy or afford those tools to start developing, but still you didn't tell me the name of chemicals of each step, or it doesn't matter any developer for B&W to use and any fixer can be fine?
So to your post, if the temp is high then that mean the development process overall will be shorter? here in UAE the temp is already high, now is winter which is fantastics [around 25C] but in the summer the temp can be up to 45-48C, so is it preferable to have higher temp to shorten the developing time or doesn't matter? I will not rush ofcourse and i will take my time and do my best, but you think if i didn't get the time exactly, say few second up to 2 minutes more or less than the suggested/recommended time labeled by the manufacturer or on that chart you sent, will that be a problem? I will try to be so accurate as i can to the time [temp] with my developing.
 

ozphoto

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You must use film developer. Kodak has D76, Ilford has ID11; the fixer is universal - I use D76 and Ilford Universal fixer at present.
If you are mixing up 1L of developer at a time (or more), it will also pay to have some storage containers to put the unused solution into for later.

The temperature is of the actual chemicals you are using, not the ambient temperature outside. However, from experience of hot summer days in Australia, the outside temperature can affect the water temperature you use to mix your chemicals. I use water frozen in 35mm containers with their lids on to cool down if the water is too hot. I usually try to process my film at 20C, but have also had success at 24C - you just need to remember to adjust your time accordingly. The table in a previous post will show you how much you need to adjust your development time.

A few seconds won't be harmful - I process according to the film I am using and it does take a few extra seconds to drain the tank. The more accurate you are though, the easier it will be to work out any problems you may encounter.

The steps are as follows:
  • Developer
  • Stop Bath (or water)
  • Fixer
  • Wash - with some Photoflo for last 30 seconds

If you use water in place of the stop bath, make sure it is the same temperature +/- 2C as your developer, the same for your wash water. Huge differences can caused reticulation (film expanding and then retracting quickly which breaks the emulsion).

Look at this thread for economical, but archival, washing of film:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
environmentally-friendly-way-do.html

Enjoy!!
 

SilverGlow

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Nanette, the link you included does not work.
 
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TareqPhoto

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Yes, the link didn't work.

Good
so i just listed the chemicals in my film wish list, i can get any developers but i will go with D76, and fixer even i found one from Kodak but i will go with Ilford, what is Wetting Agent? In fact i also added Photoflu to the list, just a stop bath was not sure to go with that Ilford one [Ilfostop] or Kodak one.
I also will prefer to use Ilford fixer without a hardener.
Good, almost i am close to finalize my film list so then i can order them later.
 

Rick A

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I prefer Edwal 'LFN' wetting agent to Kodak. Better product, lasts longer(because you use less), and can also be used with developer, to eliminate trapped air bubbles. Kodak D-76 developer has been around for decades, and Kodak or Ilford fixer. It doesn't hurt to have an indicator stop bath, any brand will work. You may also want to purchase "hypo eliminator" which helps shorten wash times for film and fiber base prints, but not necessary for resin coated paper.
 
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TareqPhoto

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I prefer Edwal 'LFN' wetting agent to Kodak. Better product, lasts longer(because you use less), and can also be used with developer, to eliminate trapped air bubbles. Kodak D-76 developer has been around for decades, and Kodak or Ilford fixer. It doesn't hurt to have an indicator stop bath, any brand will work. You may also want to purchase "hypo eliminator" which helps shorten wash times for film and fiber base prints, but not necessary for resin coated paper.

Cool, i will remember that.
Thanks!
 
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TareqPhoto

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The problem with the link is that the dots is still there which is supposed not, copy the full link and paste it again.
 

Denis R

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&c &c

the paper safe can be used to store exposed film until you are ready to develop

print tongs are used to save your fingers, gloves not necessary

221024_13.jpg

these are the best I have seen, easily pick up print stuck to bottom of tray, don't scratch or slip

AVOID the BAMBOO with RUBBER print tongs
they soak up chemicals

IF your camera does not leave the leader out, you may need a leader retriever to pull it out

images

once the leader is out, cut the end off square, then start loading the plastic reel. Do not

worry, as there is about 3" of skipped film before the first picture.
NOW turn off the lights and finish loading the reel.
Once the reel is loaded, cut off the film from the cartridge and finish loading the reel
put the reel on the center tube, then put in the tank, then screw on the lid.
REALITY CHECK is the lid on good, check it, if so, Turn On The Light

if you honestly can NOT load one of those easy load reels without looking, there is one option,

the kodak day-load tank
the 12 page manual is www.darkroompro.com/pdf/misc_equipment/kodak_dl.pdf
read it, it describes everything to do step by step with pictures

NO safelights are to be used during loading of pan film
ORTHO film may be handled with RED safelight, such as Kodak 10 Dark Amber
ORTHO film is not sensitive to RED light, check the datasheet for actual sensitivity range

a DARK GREEN safelight may be used to inspect the development process, probably more trouble

than it's worth

________________________________________________

the only time you need to measure is when preparing the developer [chemicals]

there is more than 1,000 developers, the key is to find some you like

some developers you may want to try are cited in patents 2,757,091 % 3,772,019 % 4,083,722 % 4,363,869
reading and using patent descriptions is a good way to experiment
the later patents are very long in describing how and why something works

the .xls document I created compares chemicals and developers [attached]

this chart lists some of kodak's film developers
f002_0072hc.gif

as you can see, there is no perfect developer

some reasons why d-76 is used so much
1. it started as a motion picutre film that was created using knowledge of chemsitry
2. it worked so well that others made their own version
3. it still works for just about any B/W film
4. with 80+ year track record, people trust it

for more info on d-76 and similar developers http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/d-76.html

id-11 is similar to d-76 in chemistry and development times, but there are variations in times

that may make a difference, SFX has the biggest difference of 1 1/2 minutes when dev. for 800 speed in stock solution

Ilford has cross reference tables for their and competitor's products located here

the only necessary chemicals are developer and fixer

develop "soup" of the day
stop not absolutely necessary, prolongs life of fixer
rinse not absolutely necessary, prolongs life of fixer
fix do not cut short fixing times, treat as developer
wash plain water
wash
wash
drying agent brief soak to aid in drying without water marks

recommended practice is to AVOID times less than 5 minutes, due to possibility of uneven development
it is usually best to develop at 20c or 24c
elevated temps usually require a different formula
 

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