B&W film developing for beginner on a budget

[gregmacc]

Hi all ... I'm trying to get into developing 35mm B&W on a budget without compromising quality and convenience. Firstly, I've shot 10 or so rolls of Ilford HP5 over the past 6 months but the price here in Australia is getting a little too steep for my liking. Apparently Arista Premium 400 is a good quality film. I don't see it for sale here but can buy about 11 36 exp rolls from Freestyle in the USA for the price of 4 rolls of locally bought HP5 (including postage). Seems like a good deal to me. What do others think?
Chemicals are another issue. I process infrequently and I'm finding that some of them are going off before I get to use the whole container. They are stored in a cool and dry pantry. I've been using ID-11 (powdered), Ilfostop, Ilford Washaid and Ilford Rapid Fixer. Is there an effective group of chemicals with a longer shelf life than the ones I've been using? I don't mind a bit of extra preparation time but I do need consistent controllable results. Is the stop bath and washaid absolutely necessary? Other cheaper alternatives?
I'm very keen to start using the Arista, so any suggestions of long shelf life compatible chemical combinations would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Greg

 

[Chris Nielsen]

How about using bulk film? HP5 is much more economical in bulk than individual rolls

 

[Chris Nielsen]

P.S. ID-11 should last several months as stock, how do you know it's going off??

 

[gregmacc]

The ID-11 is turning a pale yellow.

 

[jgjbowen]

Kodak's HC-110 can be diluted straight from the syrup. The bottle purchased retail will last almost forever. Yeah, the color will change slightly, but the stuff still works like a champ.

Yes, roll film is much less than purchasing individual rolls.

 

[gregmacc]

So John and Chris ... How does bulk film work?

 

[Andrew Horodysky]

I agree with the cost effectiveness of bulk film. What you do, Greg, is purchase a bulk film loader and empty cassettes -- you can do this through Freestyle. You then buy a large (bulk) roll of your preferred film (I'm not sure if they come in 50-foot rolls, 100-foot rolls or both), and load the film onto the cassettes via the loader (which has a frame counter). This process will save you much in the long run. I've never used Arista products, but they're supposed to be repackaged Plus-X and Tri-X; you really can't beat that, nor the price.

Regarding chemicals, this is a personal preference. You should be fine with your current selection of Ilford products. Some of the above suggestions are good, as well. If you're concerned with developer longevity, maybe switch to a liquid from which you would mix your working solution, eg. Kodak HC-110, Rodinal -- these last just about forever. Ilford also produces some fine liquid products, but may be a little costly for your purposes (you need to figure that out, yourself). Take a look at their website and read their comparisons: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/producttype.asp?n=6&t=Film+Developers. Be advised, that do to chemical make-up, some liquids cannot be ordered air freight. Check with the retailer, first, if you're doing mail order. You'd be better off purchasing them, locally, if available. Again, I've never used Arista chemicals, so would have to defer to others on this forum with more experience.

Good luck,

Andrew

 

[jolefler]

I'll jump in...

It's usually sold in 100' rolls, emulsion facing inwards. It's considerably less expensive per roll than factory cassettes. There are several approaches based on the cost of convenience:

The high road will require a darkroom or changing bag, several reloadable cassettes, a bulk loader, scissors and tape. It'll take shooting a lot more rolls to realize a savings, considering you'll need to factor in the recovery of costs of the mentioned items.

The low road could be a dark room, reused factory cannisters from your local lab (usually free), scissors and tape. You'll need to be careful, meticulous and methodical to open the facory cassettes in a manner that they can be snapped back together, rough measure a length of film off your bulk roll and attach it to the spool and insert it into the can and seal it. It should be dust, dirt and scratch free. Sounds hard, but I haven't used a bulk loader for 20+ years; it's easy if you establish a work area (formal darkroom not needed), and take your time.

Jo

 

[bdial]

You buy the film in a 100 foot roll, and spool it into a reloadable cassette yourself. There are "bulk loaders" that allow you do this in daylight.
The per-roll price is much lower than with the factory loaded rolls. There are several theads about bulk loading with additional suggestions and information.
A pale yellow color in your developer is not necessarily an indiction that it is bad. You can test with a piece of leader, if it turns black in a minute or so, then the developer should be ok. However, as John suggested, a developer like HC-110 or perhaps Rodinal might work better for you, as they have much better shelf life than something like ID-11.

 

[mgb74]

Bulk loaders are often available used at a fraction of the new price; although I don't know availability in your location. Arista Premium and Arista Legacy aren't a whole lot more expensive than bulk films so, depending on postage, that may still be the best way to start.

 

[Venchka]

I can't speak for Australia and shipping from Freestyle. I ran the numbers for my USA location. I got two bulk loaders for free and a bushel of empty 35mm cassettes from a mini-lab. With zero startup costs, bulk loading is only $0.25-$0.50/roll less than factory fresh Arista Premium Plus-X and Tri-X. Not worth the effort in my book. I did however score 4 50' rolls of Ilford Pan F+ for $10/each. That bulk price is cost effective.

As always, YMMV.

 

[gregmacc]

Thanks andrew, Jo, bdial, mgb74 ... What about stop bath and Washaid? ... totally necessary?

 

[lns]

1. Arista Premium 400 is Tri-X, a wonderful film.
2. HC-110 works well with Tri-X and lasts forever. It is a very thick liquid, however, so you will need a syringe or a very small measuring beaker.
3. You can stop with water.
4. You can do without the Washaid, though it does save time and water if you wash with running water.
5. You probably should use photo-flo or something similar after the wash to eliminate spots on your negative. It lasts forever and isn't expensive.
6. Bulk rolling does save money for heavy users, but be sure you like the film before you buy 100 feet of it. Also, make sure you are using enough film to make it worthwhile.

-Laura

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

D-76/ID-11 that has gone a pale yellow still has life in it. When it goes dark yellow/light orange it is still usable but you will have to increase times. When it turns orange it is time to chuck it. The developer will keep longer if you decant and store the stock solution in small bottles with no air space.

The cheapest developers are probably Patrick Gainer's various vitamin C developers. You have to mix them up yourself right before use, but the dry chemicals will last a long time. You only need a set of kitchen measuring spoons to make up the formulas. See Non-chromogenic Antiscorbutic Developers for Black-and-White by Patrick Gainer

Stop bath is a good idea. Buy a gallon of glacial acetic acid and make up the stop bath - A gallon will last a lifetime.

Wash aid is also a good idea. Sodium sulfite, if freshly mixed, works as well as any. You can find S. Sulfite at a store that sells swimming pool supplies where it is sold for adjusting pool pH. Some pool stores carry S. Thiosulfate, fixer, which they sell for removing excess chlorine.

 

[Chazzy]

I can't speak for Australia and shipping from Freestyle. I ran the numbers for my USA location. I got two bulk loaders for free and a bushel of empty 35mm cassettes from a mini-lab. With zero startup costs, bulk loading is only $0.25-$0.50/roll less than factory fresh Arista Premium Plus-X and Tri-X. Not worth the effort in my book. I did however score 4 50' rolls of Ilford Pan F+ for $10/each. That bulk price is cost effective.

As always, YMMV.

I agree. When regular film is as cheap as Arista Premium, it isn't worth the small savings to bulk load. I don't like bulk loading anyway.

 

[Chazzy]

Stop bath is a good idea. Buy a gallon of glacial acetic acid and make up the stop bath - A gallon will last a lifetime.

Glacial acetic acid is nasty stuff—at least for my liking. It was mentioned in the teaspoon measuring thread that a tablespoon of citric acid in a liter of water makes citric acid stop bath, and I intend to try it, as soon as I use up the stop bath that I already have. I just need to find out what kind of store sells dry citric acid, if that is what it is called.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Glacial acetic acid is nasty stuff

That it is - best decanted outside while standing up wind and holding one's breath.

If first dilute it 3:8 to make a 28% for a stock solution from which I make up a stop bath at 1:20. I throw in wee dram of indicator stop bath for a color change when the bath expires.

A gallon of glacial will make up 76 gallons of stop bath. I bought a gallon of the stuff for $12 (some years ago) - works out to 4 cents per quart/liter.

I figure, in general, the cheaper the method the better for the environment. It costs money to make pollution, it doesn't grow on trees, you know.

The grocery store sells citric acid in with the canning supplies [well, mine did, when it still carried canning supplies], however the price in little 1oz packets is outrageous compared to ordering from ArtCraft or PhotoFormulary. Should cost $6 to $7 a pound.

Hmmpf - rustle for calculator - looks like citric acid version is about the same - 5 cents/liter or so, at 7gm/tsp and $7/kg.

 

[Dave Pritchard]

I usually use a water stop bath. I like Rodinal for developing, and adjust development times for the water stop. Some (me included) like the water stop. The theory is that the water bath removes most developer but allows a small amount of additional shadow detail to develop as it dilutes completely. I tend to have contrasty negatives, so this is a way to adjust my process to my film and exposure choices.

When I do want a stop bath, there is white, distilled vinegar on the grocery shelves. It is already diluted to friendly concentrations. The percentage of acetic acid to water is usually listed on the label. I just dump a few ml into my stop bath, no measuring.

The only reason I'm picky about stop baths is to extend the life of my fixer. Rodinal is a one-shot developer, but fixer gets multiple use, so contamination is an issue.

 

[nworth]

Film development is pretty cheap. Your current setup is good. If you go to other developers and fixers, you can lower long term costs, but you may need to make a up front investment. Developer is probably the most expensive item. The cheapest way to go is probably Rodinal or one of its clones. It has very long life, and you use it a very high dilutions. HC-110 is a close second in both regards, and it is probably more available. For film development, a thorough water rinse can serve as a stop bath. Most current films are superhardened, and you can get away with a non-hardening fixer - at least if you handle your negatives with reasonable care. You can make your own from 200 ml of ammonium thiosulfate per liter of water plus a couple of teaspoons of sodium sulfite. It won't last as long as the commercial product, but it should hold up for a few days and 10 rolls or so.

 

[hoffy]

Howdy Greg!

Where are you located and where are you getting your film from? I have noticed that of late there has been quite a descrepency of prices for staple B&W films such as HP5+. I have seen variations of up to $3 or $4 a roll. Even my local will sell you a roll in a box for $11 or sell you the same film from a 50 roll box in a foil package for $9.

Just be careful getting films from places such as Freestyle and B&H. Sometimes the difference in price can be very much offset by the postage to get the films to Australia. At the moment, I am in the midst of organising a bulk order from the UK which at todays exchange rate will save me another $2 or $3 a roll.

 

[gregmacc]

Hi Hoffy ... I'm from Adelaide ... Aberfoyle Park

Thanks one and all for your informative responses. I'm getting plenty of good ideas. I'm at Aberfoyle Park Hoffy ... You?
You can probably guess where I'm purchasing my supplies from ... Probably the only couple of retailers in the city that sell the type of supplies being discussed here. I paid $11/roll for HP5 last time I was at Kent Town and about $9 from Hutt St.
I want to start shooting/developing a lot more but the cost of consumables will be prohibitive (I've spent the last 6yrs using digital processes, which of course are not free, but do have some on-going cost advantages). So I'm just trying to get things as budget friendly as possible .... Bills to pay ... Mouths to feed etc.
The calculation re. shipping Arista from Freestyle that I mentioned in my original post was based on a $15AUS postage fee. And that was just a guess based on previous experience. I don't think it could be too far from the mark. I would be interested in where you are buying from, what you are paying, and a whole lot of other local analog photo related stuff. Would you be happy to take a PM?
And thanks again everybody ... What a wonderful resource.

 

[mgb74]

$11 per roll (Australian)!! That's about US$9 per roll.

Let's see, how many rolls would it take to pay for my airfare from Minneapolis?

 

[hoffy]

Aberfoyle Park? I could just about lob a cricket ball on your roof! I'm across the pond at Happy Valley.

I'll send you a PM.

Cheers

 

[gregmacc]

Hi MGB 74 ... What would a 36 exp roll of HP5 cost in the USA?

 

[Chris Nielsen]

Wow, you guys all get film dirt cheap compared to us in NZ - I just picked up a bulk roll of HP5 from my local shop for NZ$130 (US $88) although I can get them for $115 if I shop around. I use bulk because individual rolls are something like $14-17 (US$9.50-11.50)

I did look at getting Arista in but from memory I didn't like the price once I'd added freight and converted to NZ dollars