B&W Digital Print Quality Tips

Noisegate · Nov 20, 2021

jeffreyg said:
Have you tried printing the B&W's with the printer you use for color? I don't generally do color but shoot film and scan tthe negatives. I only have one 3880 so I print with the Epson inks on Hahnemuhle and Moab papers. I also use the eyeball techniques. While it may sound weird to those who like the "science of digital" I get excellent results. Here's what I do: scan (2 1/4 or 4x5) with SilverFast Studio 8, open in PhotoShop, convert to gray scale, edit, copy and make a new file, convert the original to RGB, change the copy to duotone and use a tritone* that gives me a warm slightly more contrasty image, convert that to RGB and copy, on the original make another layer and paste the tritoned image and modify that layer to taste.select all layers and copy merged (in case you want to go back to tweak). It gives me a slightly warm black VERY close to Ilford multigrade fiber paper from my wet darkroom and a great result on matte and glossy rag Hahnemuhle and Moab Juniper.

It sounds like work but *save the tritone setting and it's mainly copying and pasting.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

I have never experimented with duotone. I will give that a shot on my next printing session.

Noisegate · Nov 20, 2021

guangong said:
This may be a foolish question, but could the undesired outcome be due to shortcomings of the negative? I ask because no one has asked about the negative.
I also get the impression that some are interested in high contrast pics, and do not like midtomes.
I am not trolling, but truly interested in the role of the negative. Should one be shooting differently with film if printing digitally rather than with enlarger?

I shot both digital and film and the problem exists with both when inkjet printing. I could be the common denominator....

jeffreyg · Nov 21, 2021

It doesn't matter if it is film or digital. I shoot film and digital. I use 4x5, 2 1/4, point and shoot and pinhole. Once on the computer my printing routine is the same. You might also try some curve adjustments.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

faberryman · Nov 21, 2021

Noisegate said:
Metaphorically speaking, they should call it "Grey" photography as there is nothing "black and white" about it! Science mixed with art equals fuzzy formulas.

Have you compared your print with another print on the same paper, or the sample book? My prints, whether from the darkroom or an Epson 3880, have blacks and whites as well as greys. Blacks appear blacker and whites appear whiter with glossy paper. Some people like matte paper. I am not one of them. For darkroom prints, I prefer air dried fiber based glossy. The inkjet paper I have found closest to that look is Canson Baryta Photographique. To each his own.

markjwyatt · Nov 21, 2021

Noisegate said:
Metaphorically speaking, they should call it "Grey" photography as there is nothing "black and white" about it! Science mixed with art equals fuzzy formulas.

With digital it is gray, because digital sensors record a gray level in each pixel. With B&W film it is black (grain) or white (film base) and nothing else. In that sense B&W film is more digital (0 or 1 black) than digital is! B&W film photography is monochrome pointilism, while digital monochrome photography is true grayscale.

jtk · Nov 25, 2021

Among the many wonderful papers I especially like Red River's Aurora White matte and Simply Elegant's Gold Fiber (luster ...at least as good as the frequently unavailable Ilford Gold Fibre Silk).

jtk · Nov 25, 2021

Something that is easy to overlook is the drying time for inkjet prints. IMO it's best to allow a few minutes after test printing before committing to the settings used to make it. Blacks often get blacker and overall contrast may get more intense...which may be overkill.

Noisegate · Nov 25, 2021

I

jtk said:
Among the many wonderful papers I especially like Red River's Aurora White matte and Simply Elegant's Gold Fiber (luster ...at least as good as the frequently unavailable Ilford Gold Fibre Silk).

I have a sample pack of Red River paper. I will check and see if Aurora White was included.

fgorga · Nov 25, 2021

Noisegate said:
I have never experimented with duotone. I will give that a shot on my next printing session.

If you haven't used the split toning capability of the Piezography Pro system you are missing out on one of its real advantages over the Epson ABW mode. The capabilities of Piezography Pro in this area far surpass the OEM system.

fgorga · Nov 25, 2021

Noisegate said:
I shot both digital and film and the problem exists with both when inkjet printing. I could be the common denominator....

Once you have scanned the film the "problems" that need to be solved in making an ink jet print become exactly the same as printing from a "pure" digital image.

I think that many folks underestimate the learning curve involved in making really excellent inkjet prints. In my experience making ink jet prints requires as much patience as making "wet" prints in the darkroom . This is especially true with the Piezography system. Just hitting the "print button" will get you a print, but to get a really good print requires experience and work.

Have you considered taking a workshop dedicated to inkjet printing? I have no direct experience here, but I have one friend who raves about the workshop he took with John Paul Capanegrio. Another friend found a workshop with the Piezography folks very useful.

jtk · Nov 26, 2021

Note that I only operate one photo printer and typically print both color and B&W in the same session, sometimes from the same files (made convenient and easy via NIK application). My Canon Pro10 printer isn't better than my Epsons were with same files, but it has caused infinitely less grief.

destroya · Nov 29, 2021

Noisegate said:
I

I have a sample pack of Red River paper. I will check and see if Aurora White was included.

I got the sample pack years ago for some reason to try out inkjet printing. it sat unused for a while then I found it 2 yeasr ago after losing the ability to wet print. I found a neg I liked and printed well when wet printed. I also found most of the prints needed some post contrast added but still had, to my eyes, a flatness to them. then when i was down to like my last sheet, I found my solution. the metallic paper! all of a sudden my prints has a sparkle, a nice contrast level and again to my eyes the best whites and blacks that I have achieved in B&W inkjet printing. all the prints were used with a canon pro-1000 printer, so no special black ink set. I always set the output to B&W print so I believe it only uses the 3 black inks in the set. so when red river had a special deal on a 17 inch 100 foot roll of the paper for very cheap, I bought it and have been cutting sizes I need as my canon does not have a roll paper option. if you havent tried that paper, let me know and ill cut a few sheets for you to try

I make sure to always use the proper paper profile, highest quality setting and never over sharpen! to me thats the kiss of death in digital printing. also, for what its worth, almost all my best results have come from negs developed in pryo-M, with a few back in the days when I shot a lot of rollei retro 80s and developed in beutler.

john

jtk · Nov 29, 2021

Yes, over sharpening can be tempting with inkjet prints. When I started inkjet some kind soul pointed that out for me. This can be an issue more (perhaps) with some kinds of images and some kinds of film (if a scan). Sharpening can sometimes save soft files but playing with sharpening can be an art in itself).

Noisegate · Dec 3, 2021

destroya said:
I got the sample pack years ago for some reason to try out inkjet printing. it sat unused for a while then I found it 2 yeasr ago after losing the ability to wet print. I found a neg I liked and printed well when wet printed. I also found most of the prints needed some post contrast added but still had, to my eyes, a flatness to them. then when i was down to like my last sheet, I found my solution. the metallic paper! all of a sudden my prints has a sparkle, a nice contrast level and again to my eyes the best whites and blacks that I have achieved in B&W inkjet printing. all the prints were used with a canon pro-1000 printer, so no special black ink set. I always set the output to B&W print so I believe it only uses the 3 black inks in the set. so when red river had a special deal on a 17 inch 100 foot roll of the paper for very cheap, I bought it and have been cutting sizes I need as my canon does not have a roll paper option. if you havent tried that paper, let me know and ill cut a few sheets for you to try

I make sure to always use the proper paper profile, highest quality setting and never over sharpen! to me thats the kiss of death in digital printing. also, for what its worth, almost all my best results have come from negs developed in pryo-M, with a few back in the days when I shot a lot of rollei retro 80s and developed in beutler.

john

Hi John,

Do you find the metallic paper works best with only certain images? I have tried it with some success (based on subject matter) but in all honesty feel it doesn't present well with some of my stuff but maybe I am being narrow minded.

I am guilty of using too much sharpening in the past but have backed off to some extent and now only perform localized sharpening, when needed.

jtk · Dec 22, 2021

As with film, some negs/images work better with one paper or another.

I've struggled over the last couple of days with an image of the dark side of a madrone tree which also entails a jumble of bright side bushes. Switching from mat paper (that I usually like) to Gold Fibre immediately brought out significan shadow details without losing highlights. 11x17...not fun to waste pigments fiddling with big (my $ standard ) paper and all that pigment.

jtk · Dec 25, 2021

...tentative theory: Gold Fibre really does somehow allow blacker blacks without blocking up adjacent grays. Perhaps tweaking copper tone (my default tone rather than neutral) would be similarly effective on mat paper (such as Epson velvet).

jtk · Dec 25, 2021

Noisegate said:
Hi John,

Do you find the metallic paper works best with only certain images? I have tried it with some success (based on subject matter) but in all honesty feel it doesn't present well with some of my stuff but maybe I am being narrow minded.

I am guilty of using too much sharpening in the past but have backed off to some extent and now only perform localized sharpening, when needed.

I've never used metallic paper...might be especially good with some subjects...architectural? Maybe it would great on tiny prints ?

jtk · Dec 25, 2021

fgorga said:
Once you have scanned the film the "problems" that need to be solved in making an ink jet print become exactly the same as printing from a "pure" digital image.

I think that many folks underestimate the learning curve involved in making really excellent inkjet prints. In my experience making ink jet prints requires as much patience as making "wet" prints in the darkroom . This is especially true with the Piezography system. Just hitting the "print button" will get you a print, but to get a really good print requires experience and work.

Have you considered taking a workshop dedicated to inkjet printing? I have no direct experience here, but I have one friend who raves about the workshop he took with John Paul Capanegrio. Another friend found a workshop with the Piezography folks very useful.

#1 Workshops are useless if you're not competent (ie doing good work) to begin with.

#2 the cost of inkjet printing is far higher with printers that famously clog.

#3 clogging is eventually almost certain with non-oem pigments.

#4 I've received piezo prints in print exchanges....seemed they were of more interest technically than aesthetically.

DonW · Dec 25, 2021

I would take your digital file and try it on another printer such as the Canon Pro-10. I switch from Epson to Canon and found I much prefer the Canon prints.

destroya · Dec 26, 2021

Noisegate said:
Hi John,

Do you find the metallic paper works best with only certain images? I have tried it with some success (based on subject matter) but in all honesty feel it doesn't present well with some of my stuff but maybe I am being narrow minded.

I am guilty of using too much sharpening in the past but have backed off to some extent and now only perform localized sharpening, when needed.

sorry for the long delay. since I shoot and print landscapes, I find that the paper works great for what I do. I followed the mindset of shoot 1 film and use 1 developer and get to know it. so I did that with inkjet. found a paper that fit what my minds eye thought the image should look like and ran with it.

I found that the metallic look gives my images a slight sheen/sparkle to them. not enough to take your attention from the image, but enough to add a subtle differentiation. it works well for both color and B&W, but really, for me, makes black and white sparkle. if I cant wet print, then it metallic paper for me.

john

sruddy · Mar 18, 2022

Sorry if this has been mentioned, not enough time to read all the posts. Try midtone contrast adjustment using curves or clarity adjustment sometimes works. Obviously use a paper with Hi Dmax. I currently use Canson Rag Photographique and the New canson Arches 88 which is as good or better but has a cooler color. The image below left shows Satin finish Canson Platine fiber rag with nice high Dmax and on the right a Matt Canson Rag Photographique.

B&W Digital Print Quality Tips

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