B+W 67E 023 filter. What is it?

JeffD

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I purchased a filter on EBAY, thinking I was purchasing a "deep yellow" filter (I already have a light yellow filter).

The filter is labeled B+W 67E 023 3x

The filter, however, looks way more like an orange filter, when compared to the yellow filter I already have.

Does anyone know what exactly I purchased? I couldn't reference it on the the B+W site. I don't know what the 67E refers to, but 023, I believe, should indicate a deep yellow filter. The filter is sized to fit 67mm lens diameter, though.

ideas?
 

colrehogan

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I think that the 23 filters are supposed to be orange. Deep yellow might be seen as 12 or 15. 25 filter is red.

3x might refer to exposure compensation though it seems a bit much for an orange filter IMHO.
 

Paul Sorensen

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B+W has this information on their site. Looks like a filter factor of 3 (That is not three stops, rather three times the exposure, about a stop and a half) and it should be deep yellow. I have some deep yellow filters that look pretty orange myself, so I am guessing that is what it is. The 67E is the thread diameter and pitch, I believe, and as you found, it is just a standard 67mm diameter filter thread.

Paul
 
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JeffD

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ok, I just found out that 67e is the german notation for 67mm from the folks at filter connection.

This thing is very orange, though. When I lay it on a a white sheet of paper, the hue looks almost the same as my Tiffen orange 16 filter.

Disappointing, as I was expecting a high quality truly deep yellow filter.

Arg!
 

Nick Zentena

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a #15 [Deep yellow] and a #16 [light orange] aren't that different. According to B&W that is thier version of a #15.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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The 023 isn't too different from a Wratten 15, as Nick says. Both are a little orangeish. Try it before returning it. I like it when I want something stronger than yellow, but not as dramatic as orange.
 
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JeffD

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David A. Goldfarb said:
The 023 isn't too different from a Wratten 15, as Nick says. Both are a little orangeish. Try it before returning it. I like it when I want something stronger than yellow, but not as dramatic as orange.
Click to expand...


Well, no doubt about it. The B+W is orange, not yellow, with a little orange. It is ORANGE! I guess maybe there is variation between manufacturers over what an 023 should be, but this is an orange filter! I have a Tiffen 16 orange, which seems like the same hue, and it is ok, but I prefer yellow, as I am concerned that orange will just kill the tones on green vegetation too much.

I have a yellow filter, with is labeled as a k2, and has about a 2x factor. Was hoping for something a little deeper, but still yellow. Heliopan makes a yellow 4x, but, who knows. I might order it and get an orange filter too!
 

Nick Zentena

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You could look for a Wratten number 12. Don't know what that is in the German system.
 

naturephoto1

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Jeff,

Though I haven't shot B&W for a very long time, I would suggest that you follow David's suggestion and test it before sending it back. You may want to test it against your other filters including your K2 yellow and your Tiffen 16 orange filters. Keep careful notes. Even though it looks more orange than you think or want, the film may not react as you expect.

Rich
 

John Koehrer

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A really useful booklet from B+W is their catalog, if you can get hold of one. Try calling Schneider USA My biggest problem is fin ding it when I need the information.
According to the book a B+W 023 is a dark yellow with a factor of 3 and has no Wratten equivalent.
The book I have lists the following:
B+W # (wratten #)
UV (010)
021 light yellow (2E)
022 med yellow (8)
023 dark yellow ---
040 yellow-orange (16)
041 red-orange (22)

You also have to keep in mind appearance isn't everything and the response B&W film is not the same as the eye's response.
 

joneil

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Golly - gee, can somebody who actually owns and uses this exact filter for the past 5 years take a wild guess at what it is?


Okay, I lied, I actually have been using the 022, not the 023. Buy close enough for horseshoes and handgrenades, eh?

At the time I bought my 022, it was, supposedly according to the camera store sales guy, the deepest "yellow" they sold in B+W filters before you got into the orange range. In fact, I have 041 that was once described as "orange-red", and when I want something really dramatic, that's about as far as I go. Personally I only use the deep red when shooting infra-red. Anyhow, for making white clouds stand out against a blue sky without the sky going all dark on you, the 022 is pretty good for me. Past that, you start getting darker/blacker skies.

However, there is a bone of contention here as to yellow vs orange, as my 022 only says "medium yellow", not a deep yellow - but then isn't "deep yellow" really an orange or amber? To others around who saw the filters higher than 022 when I bought mine, everything came across as more of a light orange. Your milage may vary.

As for the "3X" not sure what to tell you. My 022 says "2X" as as far as exposure compensation goes, when using it, I have always shot my 400 film - be it T-Max, Tri-x, HP5, etc, etc, at 200 ASA, and never had a problem. For the 041 filter, the orange-red one, it says "4x" on it, so for it I meter at 100 ASA, and again, things seem to be bang on for me.

The "67E" is the filter size. I own a couple of of B+W filters in 67mm size, and all of them say "67E"

If already own a light yellow filter, well then try this one out - I think you will find there are times when it is useful, because realistically I find that even orange filters are too "dramatic" save for certian shots. For everyday use in landscapes, this one may be just right.

If you are feeling exceptionally silly some day, try out a B+W 091 deep, deep red filter. Outside of use for IR film, it makes almost any other emulsion, from tech pan to tri-x, come out looking almost like lithographic film. Develop in D-19, and you do have litho-film! Oh yeah, it has "8X" on it - hey, I didn't you always want to shoot 12.5 ASA film!


joe
 

Nick Zentena

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joneil said:
Okay, I lied, I actually have been using the 022, not the 023. Buy close enough for horseshoes and handgrenades, eh?
Click to expand...


Well no-) I've got a 22 and it's not a deep yellow. According to B&W it's similar to a #8 Wratten. Visually it looks deeper yellow but that may not be a good comparison of what light it passes.

The 23 is supposed to be similar to a Wratten #15. That skips the #12. That makes the 22 two grades less yellow if I can put it that way.
 

MichaelBriggs

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I've picked up a bunch of used B+W filters by patiently waiting for bargins. I have three 023 filters in different sizes. Two are definitely yellow. One is an unquestionably different color that is distinctly orange. B+W gets their glass from Schott with the color determined by the composition of the glass. I guess that Schott has a QC problem with this glass type and doesn't always get the same color (or at least once missed). (Another possibility is that B+W isn't controlling the thickness of these filters.) This is the only B+W filter, of any color, that I have ever seen with a noticable deviation in color. Perhaps JeffD has another filter from this orange batch, or perhaps this is a recurring problem with this particular glass. I'm not sure which is supposed to be the correct color. I'm inclined to think that it is intended to be yellow-orange because 023 is about one-third of the way (based on the spectra in the catalog) from 022 to 041(red-orange, which I also have one of) and the yellow version of the 023 isn't different enough from 022. The orange shade version of 023 also better matches the color in the printed B+W catalog.
 

Michael Kadillak

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I have the exact filter you are talking about and use it all the time. IT LOOKS ORANGE UNTIL YOU LOOK THROUGH IT AT THE SKY - then you can clearly see it is a dark yellow.

Great filter that fits the desired niche in your filter collection.

Like the old Life Cereal commercial goes - "Try it you'll like it."

Cheers!
 

eli griggs

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Rayt

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The two on the right are B+W light yellow 021 and dark yellow 023. The lower left is Heliopan Orange.
 

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DREW WILEY

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23 is the old Wratten equivalent number for the lightest of the red series, followed by 24A, 25, and 29. Deep orange would be 22. B&W might currently make only 25 and 29 red, that is, past medium orange 16. I do have earlier deep orange B&W 22's. Heliopan currently offers a 22 true deep orange. Hoya also skips over deep orange all the way to a 25 medium red.

But here's the catch : What B&W calls a 22 is actually medium orange. You have to check the chart to see its actual Wratten equivalent. The real equivalent is labeled a 41.
Likewise, the 023 doesn't equate to a Wratten 23 red, but to a 15 yellow. So read the fine print. And B&W's current selection is less than it used to be.
 
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Doremus Scudder

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From my B+W handbook:

"B+W Light Yellow Filter 021 (2 E) [GG 455] SLIM MRC
This filter suppresses violet and attenuates blue. On the other hand, green, yellow, orange and red are reproduced in lighter shades. It is ideal for landscape photographs, since white clouds will contrast more against the darker blue sky, and the shades of green on plants are more differentiated. Freckles and skin blemishes in portraits can be attenuated, tans can be rendered lighter. Its filter factor is approximately 1.5.

B+W Medium Yellow Filter 022 (8) [GG 495] SLIM MRC
With stronger blue suppression, which extends into the blue-green, the effects described above are slightly stronger in the same types of applications. Clouds in the sky look very natural, but not yet dramatic. Distant views with light haze become clearer. An ideal filter, especially for landscape- and plant photographs. Its filter factor is approximately 2.

B+W Dark Yellow Filter 023 (15) [SCHOTT OG 530] SLIM MRC
The even greater blue suppression and the attenuation into the blue-green range leads to a further increase in the effects described above. Interesting for snow scenes under a blue sky, because the darkened blue shadows in the snow make the shapes of the landscape look more dimensional. Freckles and skin blemishes are diminished strongly, but lips are rendered more pale (to compensate for you may use a dark lipstick!). Its filter factor is approximately 3.

B+W Yellow-Orange Filter 040 (16) [OG 550] SLIM MRC
The effect of this filter is quite powerful. It darkens violet and blue very strongly, green strongly, it even darkens yellow-green a bit. Landscape- and architectural photographs have an increased, virtually “graphic” contrast, clouds in the sky already look dramatic. Because skin tones are strongly lightened in relation to the green tones of plants, this is a favored filter for nude photography outdoors, because it raises the contrast between the lighter bodies and darker landscapes. Its filter factor is approximately 4."

The Wratten equivalent is given in parentheses after the B+W designation. The indications in brackets describe the type of glass used (Schott), "Slim" refers to the filter ring width, MRC = multicoating.

By the way, a Wratten #15, although described as "deep yellow," looks orange. It's a great filter and the next in my lineup after the #8 yellow. I own Wratten #12 minus blue filters, but they don't do a heck of a lot more than the #8 unless you're doing technical color-separation work.

The "e" in European weights, volumes and measures is used to show that the value is compliant with the European Weights and Measures Regulations 2006. Better in this case might be "67mm e," but we get the idea.

Best,

Doremus
 
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reddesert

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This is a revival of an old thread, where people were back-and-forthing about deep yellow vs orange. My feeling is that you shouldn't over-interpret what a filter looks like to the eye, because the color sensitivities of the eye and film are different.

When filters are made out of Schott colored glass, you can get a sense of what they should do from the number. For ex in GG 455, GG 495, OG 530, OG 550, these are all blue-cut filters (pass long wavelengths) and the number is the approximate cut-off wavelength in nanometers - so for ex GG495 has 50% transmission at about 495 nm, OG 550 has 50% transmission at about 550 nm, and so on. Here's the data page for OG 550, for example: https://www.us.schott.com/shop/advanced-optics/en/Matt-Filter-Plates/OG550/c/glass-OG550 Look at the datasheet to see the transmission curve.
 

Kodachromeguy

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Hi Everyone,
Awhile ago, I got so frustrated with the different nomenclature that different filter companies used in labeling filters for black and white work, I made a comparative list. These are the ones I have used. I am sure there are other companies with their own terms that I missed. I hope this helps.


 

MattKing

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You might post that in its own thread, with a thread title like "Comparative filter designations". Others could then post other, similar resources, and we could consider making the thread a Sticky.
 

DREW WILEY

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That's just the tip of the iceberg, and a rather old rendition of it, and in fact, downright inaccurate in numerous places on the chart. And even similar designations between brands doesn't mean they are identical. Even the same brands tended to shift over time as the filter manufacturing options themselves evolved. I sure have a pile of the damn things; yet every one of them has its own distinct niche in terms of relevant application.

I'm sure I'll stir up a hornet's nest, but there is a real functional distinction between a 22 deep orange filter and a light red 23A, especially with respect to green response, that is, foliage greens which actually reflect quite a bit of red light too. Then with color films, a 1A, 1B, and KR1.5 "skylight" filters (the KR1.5 is actually a "light balancing"
filter) - all have practical distinctions when it comes to differences between specific films, atmospheric circumstances, specific hues, etc. For example, I need one type at high altitude for typical Ektachromes, another variety for Fujichrome, and yet another for Ektar color neg film. Frankly, I'm glad there's so much variety.
 
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eli griggs

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This additional information should include Neutral Density filters from various makers/brands, IMO, simply because the Filter Factors or F-Stops.

For example, many ND filters are marketed in stops, but others are F.F.

Hoya is one maker I have and the two ND filters I have are marked simply 2 and 4, whereas my Written gel ND filters are marked in F.S..
 

Sirius Glass

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Add O56 to NIkon Orange
Both O56 and Y44 are made for the Nikon 13mm/15mm/16mm rear filters.
 

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DREW WILEY

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Most ND's are not in fact color-neutral, and most aren't their labeled density either. I always double check them with a densitometer. I've encountered ones .15 D off - a whole half stop!
 
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