B&H not shipping chemicals anymore?

henryp · Dec 8, 2016

Born2Late said:
Let us not forget that B&H has told us that they don't ship ground, but that has been proven false.

From a knowledgeable individual in the large format forum:

It seems likely that, as part of its agreement with UPS which enables such deep discounts the merchant is able to offer free expedited shipping on orders over $49, B&H gives up the right to specify the exact mode of transportation UPS employs for any given order. In other words, UPS makes the determination of how to route parcels handed it by B&H.

In that scenario, B&H doesn't tender a box to UPS as a "Ground" shipment. It simply enters a parcel's information as "expedited" under its contract and UPS' software generates the label B&H then affixes to the box.

faberryman · Dec 8, 2016

Are you saying that you had no knowledge that UPS was shipping some of the packages you tendered it by UPS Ground? After all, your employee affixed the UPS Ground label to the package. Are you saying when your employee tenders a box with a UPS Ground label he affixed to it to the UPS pickup guy, he is not tendering a UPS Ground shipment to UPS? Really? Your customer service representative generated and emailed me a UPS Ground label yesterday to return a defective tripod head. Was he unaware that it was a UPS Ground label? Saying B&H does not ship UPS Ground, UPS ships UPS Ground, is mere sophistry, and is preposterous.

nolanr66 · Dec 8, 2016

Well I would say I have no beef with BHPhoto. They ship or not ship by ground according to their own policy and such. I have discovered from all this that Freestyle will just ship by ground any chemicals or products that I would want for my B/W photo hobby including HC110. I do not have to try and figure out what I can buy or what I cannot buy. In the future I will just purchase film and chemicals from Freestyle and just placed an order a few minutes ago. Being a B/W photographer I do not really need much outside of film and chemicals so I am not likely going to purchase from BHPhoto again but I might buy a camera bag or something some day. Well I have a Domke bag and it's not going to wear out but maybe I will live 200 more years and need a new bag.

faberryman · Dec 8, 2016

I purchased $1372.66 in film, paper, chemistry, and other darkroom items from B&H in 2016, which is significant for me but barely registers a blip on their radar, and I am sure pales in comparison to other posters here. As soon as I get a refund for the defective tripod head they twice sent me, I'm done. This B&H doesn't ship UPS Ground, UPS ships UPS Ground nonsense that management spokesperson Henryp is spouting is the last straw. I'm sure they will be happy to lose my business.

I hope the Department of Labor nails them for their discriminatory practices against employees.

https://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/ofccp/OFCCP20160384.pdf

They apparently didn't learn their lesson from the 4.3 million dollars they paid to settle an employee discrimination lawsuit in 2007.

nolanr66 · Dec 8, 2016

It's just a store. If they do not offer what you need then just move on.

Sal Santamaura · Dec 8, 2016

Born2Late said:
...Let us not forget that B&H has told us that they don't ship ground, but that has been proven false...

henryp said:
From a knowledgeable individual in the large format forum:

It seems likely that, as part of its agreement with UPS which enables such deep discounts the merchant is able to offer free expedited shipping on orders over $49, B&H gives up the right to specify the exact mode of transportation UPS employs for any given order. In other words, UPS makes the determination of how to route parcels handed it by B&H.

In that scenario, B&H doesn't tender a box to UPS as a "Ground" shipment. It simply enters a parcel's information as "expedited" under its contract and UPS' software generates the label B&H then affixes to the box.

While Henry's description of me as "knowledgeable" is flattering, I'll only admit to being reasonable and not among those who appear to have a vendetta against B&H. Here's the post he referred to:

http://www.largeformatphotography.i...ng-Chemistry&p=1365716&viewfull=1#post1365716

nolanr66 · Dec 8, 2016

My order with Freestyle is progressing great. They are preparing the order for shipment and will send me tracking when it actually ships. I just bought some Arista 100 just to try it out (the film and Freestyle) and a squeegee but my next order will be bulk film and enough chemicals for the 100 feet of film.

Sorry BHPhoto but I need ground shipping and I do not want it to be a big deal. Just buy it, ship it, shoot it!

Born2Late · Dec 8, 2016

nolanr66 said:
It's just a store. If they do not offer what you need then just move on.

Yes, for most they must move on, at least for now. But in my opinion it isn't just a store, as B&H is probably the single biggest player in the destruction of the local brick and mortar camera stores. So saying it is just a store might be letting them off too lightly. They have killed off most of the competition, then pulled the rug out from darkroom chemical customers.

For now, probably only UPS and the B&H top management know what is really going on. Others, even employees don't really know, even though they may believe otherwise. Based on some of the accounts of suits and penalties against B&H I would guess that it is a very secretive organization.

Lastly, I am not much of a betting man, but If I where I would bet that after the holiday rush B&H is going to reverse course, sort of. My guess is that they will resume shipping darkroom chemicals, but without a free shipping option and probably with a surcharge.

Only time will tell, but I've done business with Freestyle, Adorama, Photographers Formulary, Artcraft Chemicals and my local camera store all along. I've done a lot of business with B&H too, but that isn't going to happen any more. Let's see if my prediction is correct.

Loren Sattler · Dec 8, 2016

There is a lot of mis-information on these responses.

Today I received a shipment of "darkroom chemicals" from B&H via UPS ground shipment that weighed 29 lbs. The order was 5 liters of Ilford Rapid Fixer at $29.99 and 5 lbs of sodium sulfite at $19.95. Order total was $49.94 and included free freight. Where else can you buy at such competitive prices and get freight included free of charge, especially 29 lbs that would probably cost $15.00 or so from other retailers? The shipment arrived in two days, New York to Ohio. We should all be thankful to have such a great source for products that are getting increasingly difficult to find at local retail outlets.

Note, I did try to order some powder developers (D76 and LPD) that were "store pick up only" on the website. I wonder what nasty chemicals are in these developers that prevent them from shipping? I also noticed that Kodak Indicator Stop bath could not be shipped, but that makes sense since it contains acid. Perhaps B&H could clarify here what types of products cannot be shipped.

Leigh B · Dec 8, 2016

Loren Sattler said:
Today I received a shipment of "darkroom chemicals" from B&H via UPS ground shipment...

But B&H doesn't ship via UPS ground. Henry said so.

- Leigh

mgb74 · Dec 8, 2016

Born2Late said:
Yes, for most they must move on, at least for now. But in my opinion it isn't just a store, as B&H is probably the single biggest player in the destruction of the local brick and mortar camera stores. ...

Back in the 70s and 80s - pre-digital and pre-internet - where did you go for photo equipment and supplies? Your local camera store or the NYC retailers (like B&H) who advertised in the back of Popular Photography, Modern Photography, and Shutterbug. Those NYC stores were much cheaper. Yet the local stores held their own, in part because they could take your old equipment in on trade or more convenient to buy film and supplies.

But now in the largely digital area, you can buy almost all the same consumer and prosumer equipment at Amazon, Best Buy, Target, Costco, Walmart, etc. No trade-ins but now your 5 year old digital camera is worthless anyway unless it's a high end model. Those are the guys killing the brick and mortar camera stores, not B&H or Adorama. Photography (except for our own little APUG community) is largely electronics now.

In other words, competition from B&H has been a constant since (at least) the 60s. Brick and mortar stores held their own until cameras became electronics.

nolanr66 · Dec 9, 2016

The world is changing. Film to DSLR to the cell phone. I'm sure BHPhoto is feeling the heat on reduced digital camera sales these days.

brofkand · Dec 9, 2016

I am choosing to believe that B&H is getting pressure from UPS - always assume positive intent, it's a good credo for life I think - even though many of the chemicals they are not shipping anymore are plainly stated in the SDS sheets are free of restriction.

This is likely why Freestyle, Adorama, and so many other photographic retailers ship FedEx - FedEx may be better equipped to deal with chemistry.

All I know is I completed an order last week from Freestyle and it arrived less than a week after I ordered it - and I'm in NC, clear across the country from their shipping depot. That isn't the 2-day service I'm used to from B&H, but it's more than good enough for me. I know that I need more LPD or D-76 more than a week before I run out. It's still cheap enough that it isn't a big deal to toss an extra pouch in the cart with each order, anyway.

Born2Late · Dec 9, 2016

I like Freestyle. I hope they are smiling all of the way to the bank.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 9, 2016

Richard.L said:
I think the answer to this box paradox is beyond the knowledge of this august body of mule skinners and bar stool photographers

You are probably correct. I'm so happy to have a local store to buy my chemicals. But they can't get me either ADOX FX-39, Ethol LPD, Moersch toners, or Arista Lith print developer...
This will rearrange how people go about their darkroom work, for sure.

peter k. · Dec 9, 2016

FYI: About UPS.. personal experience..
Order something from E-bay.. several weeks ago, from a supplier that showed that it had shipped UPS.. and gave me there tracking number. Here UPS delvers late in the day..
Are you ready for this, it did ship UPS, but was delivered to my post office and they delivered it to my mail box as it was small enough to fit in there, and received it earlier in the day!
Called the post office.. what's this I asked.. and he stated UPS has arrangement with the USPS that instead of delivering to the street address, they can drop it off at the post office and the post office will deliver it.
Done all the time, he stated.

plummerl · Dec 9, 2016

peter k. said:
FYI: About UPS.. personal experience..
Order something from E-bay.. several weeks ago, from a supplier that showed that it had shipped UPS.. and gave me there tracking number. Here UPS delvers late in the day..
Are you ready for this, it did ship UPS, but was delivered to my post office and they delivered it to my mail box as it was small enough to fit in there, and received it earlier in the day!
Called the post office.. what's this I asked.. and he stated UPS has arrangement with the USPS that instead of delivering to the street address, they can drop it off at the post office and the post office will deliver it.
Done all the time, he stated.

Amazon does this all the time, going on years now.

mgb74 · Dec 9, 2016

peter k. said:
FYI: About UPS.. personal experience..
Order something from E-bay.. several weeks ago, from a supplier that showed that it had shipped UPS.. and gave me there tracking number. Here UPS delvers late in the day..
Are you ready for this, it did ship UPS, but was delivered to my post office and they delivered it to my mail box as it was small enough to fit in there, and received it earlier in the day!
Called the post office.. what's this I asked.. and he stated UPS has arrangement with the USPS that instead of delivering to the street address, they can drop it off at the post office and the post office will deliver it.
Done all the time, he stated.

As plummerl said, it's been going on for a while now. It's called "sure-post" (at least that's what UPS calls it) and it's usually cheaper for the shipper than UPS only. Typically takes an additional day over regular UPS. On the last one I received, when I received the tracking notice from UPS, they (UPS) gave me the option to bypass USPS and get it a day sooner by paying them an additional $3.50.

Leigh B · Dec 9, 2016

peter k. said:
he stated UPS has arrangement with the USPS that instead of delivering to the street address, they can drop it off at the post office and the post office will deliver it.
Done all the time, he stated.

TRUE is what he stated.

The Post Office made an arrangement everal years ago with all the common carriers that they work together.
It certainly benefits us, the recipients.

- Leigh

Born2Late · Dec 9, 2016

Leigh B said:
TRUE is what he stated.

The Post Office made an arrangement everal years ago with all the common carriers that they work together.
It certainly benefits us, the recipients.

- Leigh

I am glad to see the postal service get the extra business.

brofkand · Dec 9, 2016

peter k. said:
FYI: About UPS.. personal experience..
Order something from E-bay.. several weeks ago, from a supplier that showed that it had shipped UPS.. and gave me there tracking number. Here UPS delvers late in the day..
Are you ready for this, it did ship UPS, but was delivered to my post office and they delivered it to my mail box as it was small enough to fit in there, and received it earlier in the day!
Called the post office.. what's this I asked.. and he stated UPS has arrangement with the USPS that instead of delivering to the street address, they can drop it off at the post office and the post office will deliver it.
Done all the time, he stated.

Makes a lot of sense when you think about it - the USPS already stops by every address in the country every day anyway (even on Sundays now with Amazon's deal), while UPS only stops by if they have a package in your neighborhood. I have had UPS Smart Post packages (the ones where they hand off to USPS) show in tracking "We'll be in your neighborhood today, so we'll handle delivery." If they have another stop on your street for a standard UPS package, they'll handle the final delivery - even if the package originated as a Smart Post delivery.

Colin Corneau · Dec 9, 2016

I hope to archive this thread. It will make an ideal lesson for Public Relations and Media students on how not to handle change.

Born2Late · Dec 9, 2016

Colin Corneau said:
I hope to archive this thread. It will make an ideal lesson for Public Relations and Media students on how not to handle change.

You are correct. There are two ways to lead by example, the way to properly do something and the way not to. B&H has obviously chosen the latter.

brofkand · Dec 9, 2016

Colin Corneau said:
I hope to archive this thread. It will make an ideal lesson for Public Relations and Media students on how not to handle change.

The "Print" view of the thread would be a great way to archive it - (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

It's under the Tools menu at the top of any APUG thread page.

faberryman · Dec 10, 2016

Looks like those B&H could easily be changed. Adorama sells its Ilford Warmtone 250 sheet 8x10 for about $30 less than B&H.

B&H not shipping chemicals anymore?

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