B&H emails back a response regarding allegations

[Wayne]

FYI I've never heard of the "now famous intentional fraud and deception" of which you speak.

 

[Dali]

If you're not accusing B&H of anything, or attempting to show that the allegations against B&H are justified by analogy to a corporation now famous for massive intentional fraud and deception, you've not answered the question. What exactly is your post #75 supposed to mean?

That providing a good customer service does not mean a business is run ethically. You have a huge percentage of VW owners who are very happy with their cars and the service provided by the manufacturer. Despite the customers satisfaction ratio, things were not si great behind the curtain, isn't it?

Does my comment imply anything negative regarding B&H behavior? Not at all, it just point up the fact that the customer satisfaction can't be a criterion regarding business integrity and that all customer testimonies have little to do with this thread topic.

B&H has been running for quite a long time now. It is the proof they were able to build commercial relationship with a non-negligeable part of the photo community and it is not possible to do so without dedication to customers. But IMO it is not at all what is discussed here.

Now, my turn to ask you a question: why this eagerness to defend B&H?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

FYI I've never heard of the "now famous intentional fraud and deception" of which you speak.

In that case you're either living in intentional ignorance of current events and/or not very facile with search engines. Here are but two of many matches that result when attempting to find out about VW's behavior:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ps-busted-volkswagen-and-brought-down-its-ceo​

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/b...00-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html?_r=0​

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Yeah, Volkswagen are great cars, never had an issue.

If you're not accusing B&H of anything, or attempting to show that the allegations against B&H are justified by analogy to a corporation now famous for massive intentional fraud and deception, you've not answered the question. What exactly is your post #75 supposed to mean?

That providing a good customer service does not mean a business is run ethically. You have a huge percentage of VW owners who are very happy with their cars and the service provided by the manufacturer. Despite the customers satisfaction ratio, things were not si great behind the curtain, isn't it?...

That is a red herring. Posting about a large corporation that's now famous for unethical, not to mention illegal, behavior, quoting no other member or including any explanation in your post, associates B&H with such behavior. Providing good customer service does not mean a business is run unethically either.

By the way, you've chosen a poor example of automotive brands that satisfy customers. In the Consumer Reports April, 2015 annual auto issue, survey respondents identified the Volkswagen Passat (V6) as "Least Satisfying" midsize car. I swore off Volkswagen after its products gave me horrible reliability in the 1970s. Even today, Volkswagen automobiles do well to achieve "average" reliability ratings in Consumer Reports records.

...Does my comment imply anything negative regarding B&H behavior? Not at all, it just point up the fact that the customer satisfaction can't be a criterion regarding business integrity and that all customer testimonies have little to do with this thread topic...

It most certainly does imply negative behavior. By association.

...Now, my turn to ask you a question: why this eagerness to defend B&H?

If you carefully read my posts in this thread, they defend both sides of the discussion. First, I defended those who wished to boycott B&H, when someone posted that there was a "rule" in the US that might prevent such action. Then, when someone attacked Henry Posner, I defended him and his posts in this thread. As part of defending Henry, I included anecdotal evidence of his previous behavior which was opposite of what his attacker described. In all cases, I post factually to, hopefully, make clear when others' posts are simply wrong.

Does that answer your question?

 

[removed account4]

I swore off Volkswagen after its products gave me horrible reliability in the 1970s.

lol did yours burn up too

 

[Dali]

You missed the point and continue to think I mis-represented B&H by association with the VW scandal...

My comments were not addressed to B&H but to those who insist on sharing their positive customer experiences when the thread is about employees complains. Is it clear enough now or do I need to explain again and again?

No, you don't answer my question. M. Posner did some comments and I don't think he needs a proxy to comment again if he wants. So what is your point?

Last comment for the fun: Got a VW in the '90 with a Diesel engine. Half a million kilometers with the same engine... Not sure a lot of cars could then do a similar performance.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...I swore off Volkswagen after its products gave me horrible reliability in the 1970s...

lol did yours burn up too

We had two Rabbits, a 1976 and 1978, both purchased brand new. I performed all maintenance and repairs on them, as I have with every vehicle we've owned. Boy, did I perform repairs on them. Lots and lots of repairs. Now that we drive Honda and Subaru vehicles, I perform nearly 100% maintenance. Almost no repairs.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

You missed the point and continue to think I mis-represented B&H by association with the VW scandal...

My comments were not addressed to B&H but to those who insist on sharing their positive customer experiences when the thread is about employees complains. Is it clear enough now or do I need to explain again and again?...

Ah, but you did lump B&H with VW's bad behavior by association. That you think your lack of intent to do that should have been clear, and that you believe repeatedly "explaining" it is sufficient, doesn't change what you posted and how you posted it. No need to post the same thing again and again.

...No, you don't answer my question. M. Posner did some comments and I don't think he needs a proxy to comment again if he wants. So what is your point?...

My point was explicitly stated in my last post. I respond to forum posts that state untruths so those reading will not accept them as fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, while he did comment again, Henry Posner expressed appreciation for the factual statements of support he's received in this thread. So I guess he doesn't need a proxy but is happy to have others refute nonsense about him.

...Got a VW in the '90 with a Diesel engine. Half a million kilometers with the same engine... Not sure a lot of cars could then do a similar performance.

Unless it's suffering from a gross design or manufacturing defect, any diesel engine should be barely broken in by 500,000 km. It's all the rest of the car's driveline and peripheral systems that fail first. And, with VWs, they fail quite a bit. I speak from personal experience.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

The VW 'business' can't be compared with what is happening at B&H.

A labor union is seeking to represent the warehouse employees at B&H. Under US labor laws, B&H is severely restricted on what they can say without being charged with an unfair labor practice. Unions seem to have more freedom in what they claim. I would expect a high degree of hyperbole in the union and workers charges.

We should wait until the issue is settled and/or an election takes place before judging B&H too harshly.

 

[Dali]

Ah, but you did lump B&H with VW's bad behavior by association. That you think your lack of intent to do that should have been clear, and that you believe repeatedly "explaining" it is sufficient, doesn't change what you posted and how you posted it. No need to post the same thing again and again.

My point was explicitly stated in my last post. I respond to forum posts that state untruths so those reading will not accept them as fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, while he did comment again, Henry Posner expressed appreciation for the factual statements of support he's received in this thread. So I guess he doesn't need a proxy but is happy to have others refute nonsense about him.

Unless it's suffering from a gross design or manufacturing defect, any diesel engine should be barely broken in by 500,000 km. It's all the rest of the car's driveline and peripheral systems that fail first. And, with VWs, they fail quite a bit. I speak from personal experience.

Yeah, yeah, everything can be link to everything, by association according to you. So there is need to argue as every pro or con comment will be judge by association... A strange kind of rhetoric IMO.

You had a bad experience with VW and it gives you authority to issue a sentence. I doubt VW became a major player in the auto industry building poor quality cars for decades unless you are right and everyone else is wrong... by association of course.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yeah, Volkswagen are great cars, never had an issue.

Non sequitur and completely out of line unless you are making an accusation. Who are you to caste a stone?

 

[eddie]

My comments were not addressed to B&H but to those who insist on sharing their positive customer experiences when the thread is about employees complains.

I think the posts about positive experiences were in response to post #55. I know mine was.

 

[Wayne]

I wasn't asking to be informed about it. I couldn't care less about corporate intrigues. I just thought you were going too far as internet police dog, even for you. But to be fair I'm surprised the thread wasn't closed long before you appeared. Seems like a train wreck of a topic.

In that case you're either living in intentional ignorance of current events and/or not very facile with search engines. Here are but two of many matches that result when attempting to find out about VW's behavior:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ps-busted-volkswagen-and-brought-down-its-ceo​

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/b...00-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html?_r=0​

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I think the posts about positive experiences were in response to post #55. I know mine was.

Yes, mine (being post #56) certainly was...

I am neither supporting nor opposing either side in this issue. As a customer I am neither employer nor employee. So I must simply wait to see what happens. As stated earlier, I do not boycott on damning rumors. Nor do I refuse to boycott on damning facts.

I suggest that perhaps the best course of action is to simply allow the participants in this disagreement to play out their hands, then watch to see how the cards fall. Once an outcome has been determined, either in court or at some lower level, then we can all make up our minds and follow our respective consciences.

Ken

 

[AgX]

If you're not accusing B&H of anything, or attempting to show that the allegations against B&H are justified by analogy to a corporation now famous for massive intentional fraud and deception, you've not answered the question. What exactly is your post #75 supposed to mean?

The meaning was clear to me out of the context.
A meaning as Dali has stated later.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

No one pays a parking ticket which they believe was undeserved for no reason either, except it is almost always less expensive to settle than to wage an expensive battle in which only lawyers will come out winners. As part of that settlement we did not pay a fine to the EEOC, we established a settlement fund to cover any subsequent claims made by individual workers which were judged to have merit. When we did (in 2009 -- six years ago), EEOC New York Trial Attorney Lou Graziano said, “We commend B & H for working cooperatively with us to resolve this matter without protracted litigation. We encourage other employers to follow B & H’s example of resolving discrimination cases expeditiously and in good faith.”

While I won't dispute the unfortunate truth of that it does little to nothing to absolve of wrongdoing. It is nothing more than penance without absolution. AKA sweeping it under the rug. From whence it crawls later to bite again. And there we are.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

I don't know about others here but I can't possibly count how many times I apologized to my wife when I'd done nothing wrong and she was just raging over things that didn't exist. Maybe this is a situation analogous to an angry significant other... or maybe not. The point is, an apology and conciliatory act from the first party is often easier and less painful than trying to convince a completely illogical second party of their error. We just don't have enough information to know which party is in the right regarding the stated earlier settlement nor the current situation.

Signed... an ex husband... a VERY HAPPY VERY EX husband.

 

[pbromaghin]

Quite honestly, I no longer pay any attention to anything said by either party in a labor dispute.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Quite honestly, I no longer pay any attention to anything said by either party in a labor dispute.

+1

 

[Rick A]

I think this thread has out lived its usefulness, not that I think it was even useful to begin with. I think it ought to be closed.

 

[Sirius Glass]

+1

 

[SuzanneR]

I think this thread has out lived its usefulness, not that I think it was even useful to begin with. I think it ought to be closed.

I'm inclined to agree.