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B&H emails back a response regarding allegations
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That is the purpose of internet.
So now Henry is even trolling here!
As for those who wax ecstatic over B&H's goods and services, I would wonder how much and how long you have been doing business with them. I stopped buying from them over 10 years ago after personally experiencing (several times) them selling broken, defective and returned equipment as new. They would then accuse you of causing the damage. There were many postings on the net to this effect. And good ol' Henry always took time out of his busy day to launch vicious attacks against those who posted their experiences on-line.
Having unhappy customers occurs with any business. Making a point of attacking people for sharing their experiences with others is inexcusable.
I've never experienced any of those situations. Not saying you haven't. Just I haven't.
Never had to return a single item, either because it was broken or defective, or because I just wasn't happy. Never received an item that appeared to have been repackaged (it's pretty easy to tell). Never had an order incorrectly filled. Never had an item listed as in stock turned up out of stock. Never had a special order take longer than advised. Never been overcharged. Never been undercharged. Never had a shipment lost in delivery. Never had a representative attack me. Or, for that matter, me feel the need to attack them.
Not saying any or all of these things can't or don't happen. They have just never happened to me.
And as far as any allegations of mistreatment go, I still currently do not have sufficient verifiable information available one way or the other to form a thoughtful judgment. So I won't until I do. And I don't boycott on rumors. That may not be the popular sentiment. But it's my sentiment.
Ken
Well, I've been buying from B&H for approximately ten years. Their shipments are always quick -- I'm in the Philadelphia suburbs and receive stuff UPS ground in less than 48 hours. I have never had an order with incorrect merchandise or quantities thereof, and their website sets a standard by which I judge those of other merchants. In addition to film, paper and darkroom goodies, I have bought several digital cameras, a digital projector, color printer, and recently a tablet for my wife. The only problem I have ever had was some infant mortality symptoms in a Canon DSLR body. I contacted their customer service and even though it was the busy end of year retail season, I promptly received a prepaid UPS label via email and the camera body was swapped; the return and replacement took less than a week.
I am concerned about these allegations, but given the media penchant for fomenting hysteria, I'm not likely to get too upset based on what I know so far. Many huge businesses either treat their own employees like dirt (and don't pay enough to keep them off food stamps) or outsource a lot of the most miserable work to contractors who treat employees like dirt. That doesn't make it right, of course, but it also means the next place I take my business may be little better if at all. And while I agree that collective bargaining helps the little people avoid getting trampled, there are plenty of unions that will throw ethics out the window without a second glance. So I am reluctant to read much into this curreent situation.
(I admit to ordering some stuff from B&H last night about 9 PM and the tracking info says I'll have it tomorrow.)
{And no, I receive no compensation for this testimonial.
I am concerned about these allegations, but given the media penchant for fomenting hysteria, I'm not likely to get too upset based on what I know so far. Many huge businesses either treat their own employees like dirt (and don't pay enough to keep them off food stamps) or outsource a lot of the most miserable work to contractors who treat employees like dirt. That doesn't make it right, of course, but it also means the next place I take my business may be little better if at all. And while I agree that collective bargaining helps the little people avoid getting trampled, there are plenty of unions that will throw ethics out the window without a second glance. So I am reluctant to read much into this curreent situation.
(I admit to ordering some stuff from B&H last night about 9 PM and the tracking info says I'll have it tomorrow.)
{And no, I receive no compensation for this testimonial.
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I've been doing business with them for close to 40 years. I'm sure it's well over 100 transactions during that time, both in-store and mail order. I've never had a significant issue with any item I bought (granted it's mostly film, paper and chemicals,). I've never purchased used equipment from them but have purchased some new equipment. Never had a problem.
There was also a time I felt they went above and beyond, in their service. I had a job to shoot in the French West Indies. I had purchased film for the job, and was ready to go, when the client called to add to the job. I was leaving in 3 days, so I called B&H, ordered more film from the same emulsion batch, and had them overnight it to me. Well... I got the wrong film. I called, and they sent the correct film (on their dime), and a shipping label to return the wrong film. When I explained I was leaving the next day, for three weeks, I was told not to worry, just to return it when I got back. They didn't have to do that.
While I find the allegations disturbing, I have no idea of the truth. I don't think anyone else here does either.
Thanks for the link. It's still mostly hearsay... 'he said, she said' until investigations and lawsuits are concluded. I reserve my opinion until it's all said and done but I'm hoping the allegations aren't nearly as bad as accusers say they are.
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Yep. That's just what I'm doing -- taking time out of my busy day to launch this vicious attack.
And yet, are you not an unhappy customer who is now posting this "attack" about me? Just saying.
Henry Posner has been an APUG member for more than eight years. He replied in this thread with what appears to be the language corporate lawyers advised him to. I consider that normal, expected behavior, not trolling.
As a side note, Henry has always been extremely helpful to me when making inquiries at B&H. Questions sent to him have resulted in his obtaining answers directly from buyers and those who monitor stock, as well as changing B&H policies in some cases. From a customer perspective, one couldn't ask for more responsiveness.
Already answered in my prior post:
Yet a third article that merely states the same allegations. It adds nothing to our actual knowledge of the truth.
There's more than a couple posts here that say "it's doesn't affect me any so who cares." It's not like businesses actually abuse low wage earners or even unpapered (illegal) workers. Even businesses that provide good product and service. Or is it? Profit is far from a dirty word...............but it's often confused with greed. Which is.
Yes both cited articles are hearsay. Hearsay is not defined as untruth. Simply unsubstantiated. As are B&H's claims on worker treatment. No one pays $4.3 million for no reason. It's not as if I can take a little road trip to NYC and stroll into B&H unannounced to see for myself. So I must make a decision with what is available to me. And that decision is to refrain from purchasing until this is cleared up regardless of which side seems more likely true.
In reality both sides suffer if B&H sales decline. Laying off staff because of that is good for no one. However would workers really risk that for nothing? Why would B&H management risk this public airing of laundry and possible damage to reputation as well as bottom line? There is something substantial to this for these risks to be taken on both sides. Hopefully an amicable agreement will result and this will recede into history.
Yes both cited articles are hearsay. Hearsay is not defined as untruth. Simply unsubstantiated. As are B&H's claims on worker treatment. No one pays $4.3 million for no reason. It's not as if I can take a little road trip to NYC and stroll into B&H unannounced to see for myself. So I must make a decision with what is available to me. And that decision is to refrain from purchasing until this is cleared up regardless of which side seems more likely true.
In reality both sides suffer if B&H sales decline. Laying off staff because of that is good for no one. However would workers really risk that for nothing? Why would B&H management risk this public airing of laundry and possible damage to reputation as well as bottom line? There is something substantial to this for these risks to be taken on both sides. Hopefully an amicable agreement will result and this will recede into history.
I started purchasing from B&H almost since they started, always had satisfactory transactions. I have been both an employee and employer. As long as the employee has the right to quit if they can do better elsewhere, I recognized there is always at lease two sides to the story.
Employers who, as a condition of employment, require arbitration agreements, or, as a condition of being a customer, also have arbitration agreements, are the ones to avoid. JMHO
Both sides are usually at the extremes. While the truth is normally somewhere in the middle. B&H is not the greedy Scrooge like employer that pays pennies on the dollar for wages and makes everyone work in substandard OSHA unapproved conditions where body parts litter the floor every day...While the employees are not down trodden innocent workers, forced to work 20 hour days for 50 cents an hour and have lost body parts due to rampant corporate greed and uncaring owners.
Just the fact that we have someone from B&H as a member of our board, to me says a lot. My budget generally doesn't allow me to make many purchases of new stock, so I usually get my stuff via a certain un-named internet auction site, but I have bought stuff and have been satisfied with my purchases.
While I would love to hear non-legal-eze, he has to speak that way to make sure they don't get sued. Not everyone is as rich as Donald Trump who seems to say whatever he pleases.
Just the fact that we have someone from B&H as a member of our board, to me says a lot. My budget generally doesn't allow me to make many purchases of new stock, so I usually get my stuff via a certain un-named internet auction site, but I have bought stuff and have been satisfied with my purchases.
While I would love to hear non-legal-eze, he has to speak that way to make sure they don't get sued. Not everyone is as rich as Donald Trump who seems to say whatever he pleases.
Unless and until B and H is proven guilty then I'll continue to buy from them. It's just as if a business friend was accused of thievery by another friend. If all my monetary interactions with the accused are satisfactory then why should I stop dealing with him/her at the first unsubstantiated accusations of skullduggery? If the accused is found guilty then I'll certainly consider carefully whether or not to deal with that person in the future. In virtually all civilized nations, a person (or other entity) is innocent until proven guilty. To harm that entity without proven justification is morally wrong according to commonly accepted social behavior. Of course, we're all free to make our own decisions and can buy from whomever we choose. But is it really fair to pre-judge and punish the accused without knowing all the facts? Isn't that analogous to throwing stones at an accused person just because some other person claimed they did something wrong and just because everyone else is throwing stones?
EDIT: Courts of law and bands of thugs may often seem very similar but there really are differences... sort of... usually.
EDIT: Courts of law and bands of thugs may often seem very similar but there really are differences... sort of... usually.
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The only time I had a problem with a B&H order was when I ordered the last of the Kodak Plus-X 120 film and the Post Office lost the film. B&H no longer had any more of the film and promptly refunded the money without waiting for the Post Office to do its investigation. It ended up that the Post Office waited four months before starting the investigation. All the other B&H orders were great and I use them regularly.
+1
Only order I had go bad was 4x5 QL's that UPS decided not to deliver and sent it back for unknown reasons. I was headed out the door for a two week trip and needed the order immediately. B&H overnight-ed a new order and all worked out like a well oiled machine in the end.
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- HelenOster
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- MattKing
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Thank you. I appreciate this.
No one pays a parking ticket which they believe was undeserved for no reason either, except it is almost always less expensive to settle than to wage an expensive battle in which only lawyers will come out winners. As part of that settlement we did not pay a fine to the EEOC, we established a settlement fund to cover any subsequent claims made by individual workers which were judged to have merit. When we did (in 2009 -- six years ago), EEOC New York Trial Attorney Lou Graziano said, We commend B & H for working cooperatively with us to resolve this matter without protracted litigation. We encourage other employers to follow B & Hs example of resolving discrimination cases expeditiously and in good faith.
Yeah, Volkswagen are great cars, never had an issue.
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+1 ( film, chemicals, cameras lenses )
the only time i had a situation was lens caps that never fit
remeasured the front and back of the giant lens,
sent back and forth 3 times, still didn't fit ...
i got tired of paying shipping both way,
mr posner refunded my shipping, no questions asked.
i can't say anything about their current line of TDIs but
i've had 4 vw's at my disposal 70s beatles, 80s jettas and 00's jettas
never had a problem, and enjoyed them at all ( still drive one ) ...
and i have wished i still had an air cooled vw since about 1987 ...
but unfortunately no airbags and the whole car being a crumple zone
and too many dopey people in large trucks and suv's with cell phones and other distractions
have made the decision for me not to have one.
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What exactly is that supposed to mean? It's entirely irrelevant to the subject under discussion. Unless you're accusing B&H of massive intentional fraud and deception. In which case it would seem that, without hard evidence to support such an accusation, you run the risk of being sued for slander. And losing.
Am I accusing B&H of anything? Aren't their customers happy?
If you're not accusing B&H of anything, or attempting to show that the allegations against B&H are justified by analogy to a corporation now famous for massive intentional fraud and deception, you've not answered the question. What exactly is your post #75 supposed to mean?
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