B&H customer "service"

Gary892 · Nov 3, 2005

Not only on this site, but others as well, I have heard of the many trails and tribulations when dealing with B&H. I have never ordered or bought anything from them and based on what I have read I most likely will not buy anything from them.
I work very hard for what money I have and I am not going to spend it where my business is not appreciated or where I am not treated the way I expect to be treated.

Buying from B&H is a personal decision based on your willingness to put up with their business practices.

esanford · Nov 3, 2005

roteague said:
A persons political leanings, should have nothing to do with whether they value diversity or not. Valuing others should go beyond political labels; it is a matter of treating others as you wish to be treated. FWIW, I am deeply conservative.

Ha Ha ha ha!!! FWIW, I was making a joke. I HATE THE WORD DIVERSITY. Because it is code for something other then what the word means. By the way I share your political leanings....

roteague · Nov 3, 2005

esanford said:
Ha Ha ha ha!!! FWIW, I was making a joke. ....

I guess I am a bit slow on the uptake. Doh!!! :rolleyes:

Travis Nunn · Nov 3, 2005

Gary, I don't think APUG has blasted B&H as you are saying. I personally think that buying from B&H is about as safe as you can get. If they didn't do a great job overall, they wouldn't be one of the largest photo equipment dealers in the world. That being said, I understand completely that one bad transaction can turn some people away from a company. I dare say there are no companies, especially ones as large as them, that have 100% customer satisfaction.

Me? I'll continue to buy from them. While I don't think customer service is their strong point, I think they do a very good job overall.

laz · Nov 3, 2005

Gary892 said:
I have never ordered or bought anything from them

I am not going to spend it where my business is not appreciated or where I am not treated the way I expect to be treated.

based on your willingness to put up with their business practices.

If you never purchased anything from them where do you get off saying anything?

I'm sorry but you really pushed a button with your thinly Vailed subtext.

-Bob

Dave Parker · Nov 3, 2005

I don't see how any company can be 100% perfect, things do happen, communitcations get messed up and misunderstandings do happen, especially in international orders, B&H is as good as anyone in the business, which is going a long ways, being a good many of the large companies in New York are very difficult to deal with, I have tried with several of them and out of the groups of photo stores on the east coast B&H has always been one of the easiest and best to deal with.

Dave

Mongo · Nov 3, 2005

I'll jump in here to say that I've also had generally good experiences with B&H over the years. The only bad issues I had were last year when, for some reason, they started using sub-standdard boxes for shipping orders and the boxes would invariably show up crushed by UPS. (I do mean invariably...I had eight orders in a row in which the boxes were crushed when they arrived.) UPS always pointed out how cheaply the boxes were made; thanfully B&H were quick to replace the only item that actually got damaged in a shipment. They did so quickly and courteously, and I guess the number of complaints got too high as my last order from them came in a standard thickness box which survived the shipping process unscathed.

Having decided the the other large New York store won't ever see another dime of my money, I'm glad that B&H is still around and still carrying the diverse inventory that they do. I've also beed delayed due to their holiday schedules in the past, but never unknowingly as they always advertised their schedules prominently. I'm very sorry to hear that cvik's order was delayed so long, and were I in the same position I'd probably think about refusing the package when it arrived. But in this day and age such a decision has to be tempered with the realization that it might be hard to buy the equipment elsewhere for a reasonable price. B&H are far from perfect, but at least they're still carrying the things that analog photographers need and are still doing business (in my opinion) in an honest and trustworthy manner. Many stores have abandoned analog equipment, have gone out of business, or are practicing business in less than honest ways (again, in my opinion); given that B&H still supports analog photography and that their customer service is generally good, I'll continue to order from them.

Be well.
Dave

roteague · Nov 3, 2005

Yes, no company is 100% perfect. I haven't purchased much from them; the last order I made through them, I ran into an issue with shipping the order, but when I called them on the phone, we worked through it easily. I would buy from them again. I buy more from Calumet, who I have also found to be great. I only order from Adorama when I have no other choice (it find it irritating that they can't keep their website updated with stock info).

Gary892 · Nov 3, 2005

laz said:
If you never purchased anything from them where do you get off saying anything?

I'm sorry but you really pushed a button with your thinly Vailed subtext.

-Bob

I have every right to buy from whom I want. If you don't like that fact that is your issue not mine.

laz · Nov 3, 2005

Gary892 said:
I have every right to buy from whom I want. If you don't like that fact that is your issue not mine.

Just callin' 'em as I see 'em. But, my apologies for doing so.
-Bob

laz · Nov 3, 2005

roteague said:
I only order from Adorama when I have no other choice (it find it irritating that they can't keep their website updated with stock info).

A visit to their store will explain it all to you! I love going there. while B&H is a picture of gleaming efficiency Adorama is a rather cramped worn riot of a place. Their stock is kept in the 4 floors above the store and when something has to be retrieved, well it's a far cry from B&H's efficient "meet your purchase at the exit" system! All in all it's a much more personal experience then B&H. (however the LF counter at B&H is often empty of customers and the salesman is happy to see you!)
-Bob

zenrhino · Nov 3, 2005

laz said:
It is so hard for those not familiar with the highly orthodox religious life the proprietors of B&H lead to understand what it means to be "closed for the holidays." In all of October B&H was open for only 9 full days.

Please respect their faith and understand that for a business as large as B&H this puts them very far behind.

-Bob

Wouldn't you think they'd hire some goys to keep the shop going? I've never worked anywhere that the Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/Buddhist folks (of which I'm one) didn't have to cover Xmas/Easter/St. Whatevers Day. Seems like common sense to me.

roteague · Nov 3, 2005

zenrhino said:
Wouldn't you think they'd hire some goys to keep the shop going? I've never worked anywhere that the Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/Buddhist folks (of which I'm one) didn't have to cover Xmas/Easter/St. Whatevers Day. Seems like common sense to me.

Because a strict interpretation of the scriptures doesn't allow for the conducting of business on those days; which includes employees. It really doesn't have anything to do with the employees.

zenrhino · Nov 3, 2005

Anybody know how their in-store prices are compared to webpage prices?

I'd spend a couple hundred on a ticket if I'd save that much over the horrid local chain.

laz · Nov 3, 2005

zenrhino said:
Wouldn't you think they'd hire some goys to keep the shop going? I've never worked anywhere that the Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/Buddhist folks (of which I'm one) didn't have to cover Xmas/Easter/St. Whatevers Day. Seems like common sense to me.

You probably don't know just how huge B&H is! Aside from that the orthodox believe that to do anything that encourages any Jew in any way to break the sabbath is a sin.

-Bob

Dave Parker · Nov 3, 2005

Understanding the beliefs of the business owner goes along ways to understanding why they run their business that way they do, in the orthodox religion, it is still a sin to conduct business on the declared holidays of the religion, just as it is in other religions, the muslum religion has many days that it is a sin to conduct business as well. In American christian religions it used to be a sin to conduct business on certain days as well, it really was not until super stores such as wal mart came along that you started seeing many of the American owned business stay open on holidays.

I remember growing up there were quite a few things that you could not purchase on Sundays, and you could never find anyplace except a 7-11 open on Christmas.

Dave

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 3, 2005

zenrhino said:
Anybody know how their in-store prices are compared to webpage prices?

I'd spend a couple hundred on a ticket if I'd save that much over the horrid local chain.

In-store prices are the same as online, but they sometimes have things in the store that are listed as out-of-stock online or that don't appear on the website, so it can be worthwhile to call and ask someone to check the stockroom, if you're not sure. In the store you can also negotiate a bit with the guys in the used department. Not sure if that applies to new equipment, but probably they have a little leeway if you're buying a big package.

Indeed the LF counter is usually not too busy, and neither is the darkroom section. Still, they know when it will be really crowded (Sunday, and before or after a long holiday), so they staff for it. I've been in and out in 20 minutes when it's been a zoo in there.

celluloidpropaganda · Nov 3, 2005

I had one disastrous encounter with B&H that's kept me from shopping there ever again.

A couple of Christmases ago, I ordered the ToyoView 45CX kit from B&H in early-mid December, the site said it was in-stock, the confirmation said it was in-stock, etc. It doesn't ship for a while, then ships in two packages - I assume I'm getting everything. Both packages finally arrive a day or two before Christmas - lo and behold I'm missing the lens. The packing slip say it's backordered 'indefinitely.' Nice of them to warn me.

At this point it's Christmas Eve, so I can't call until the 26th and this is when I start getting the runaround. They don't know when lenses are coming in, they can't help me, etc. I keep calling back and e-mailing trying to get more information.

It rolls into January with no sign of the lens. I get fed up and want to return what they did bother to send me. It takes another couple of weeks to get them to send me a label so I can ship it back and be done. (Worst customer service ever - rude and unhelpful. Apple call centers are a joy in comparison.)

Finally get it sent back and confirmation that it's arrived, they refund the price - MINUS THE COST OF THE LENS. The customer service rep starts giving me crap about not sending it back and I finally have to convince him THEY NEVER SENT ME THE BLOODY LENS in the first place.

The worst part is that through this entire mess - over two months from beginning to end, they continued to list the kit as 'in-stock,' even as I reminded them of this with every single e-mail and phone call.

Since that time, I haven't ordered a single thing from the place. I'm sure they're generally trustworthy and honest, but I'd rather give up photography than give them a dime.

(I used to have a more detailed rant on their useless customer service and my annoyance, but it's been a couple of years.)

mgb74 · Nov 3, 2005

Without trying to sound too much like the consultant I am, organizations typically excel in one of three areas: customer intimacy (think Nordstorms), operational effectiveness (think Walmart), or product leadership (think a designer boutigue - I can't name any). Companies usually fail if they try to excel in all (think of one foot on the dock and one in the boat).

It would be nice if B&H (or any dealer) had rock bottom prices and high customer service (not to mention coffee and live piano music in the store). Ain't gonna happen. Granted, they do need to meet minimal standards even where they don't excel. And occasionally even those minimal standards are not met.

What's great about our economy is that we can choose the kind of supplier we what. What's not so great is that we have to choose.

There are some exceptions. Personally, I'm impressed that J&C can offer the product they provide, with reasonable prices, and be so quick to ship. But their's is a very specialized offering.

I suppose this reply should be relegated to the "soapbox".

josephaustin · Nov 4, 2005

Use freestyle, APUG sponser never had a problem with them. Not as great a selection, but a good selection, and the arista line is decent. Way better then ritz, my only complaint is there website. Its not quite as searchable as the NYC stores. I dont dislike B&H or Adorama, but Freestyle sponsers APUG, and carries alot of the same things for around the same price.

Mongo · Nov 4, 2005

Freestyle's web site, although it still have a poorly functioning search system, is improving at a quick pace. The new filtering options at the top of each page in the site make it much easier to find what you want, and also to browse to see what they have that you didn't know you wanted.

(I did notice on my visit yesterday that the price of their Arista.EDU Ultra film - the Fomapan stuff - has gone up. Not that that's a bad thing...I think the old price was unsubstainable.)

Be well.
Dave

celluloidpropaganda · Nov 4, 2005

I've had nothing but good experiences with Freestyle and Calumet. Freestyle, especially, seems to know their market (students and artsy amateurs) with the information they send out.

I can't imagine ordering big equipment from B&H or Adorama, personally. I'd buy from Ebay or the classifieds here, or else I'd look to a smaller specialist (MPEX, Badger) or local if at all possible.

B-3 · Nov 4, 2005

I've ordered lots of stuff from B&H. Little stuff (film, filters, etc) and big stuff (cameras, an enlarger, etc); new stuff and used stuff. I live in New England (and now closer to NYC than I used to), so physical distance has never been too great; everything has always arrived faster than promised. Their selection is unparallelled, and I find their prices to be either the same or lower than anybody else - depending on the item.

I no longer purchase from EBay - the whole experience drives me nuts and the product quality is too random for my tastes. I don't have the spare time, but I guess I do have the spare cash, so I do buy used from B&H - I may pay more, but I know I can trust their product quality designations.

Yes, they do honor Jewish holidays. I can live with that.

Mongo · Nov 4, 2005

Bruce said:
I no longer purchase from EBay - the whole experience drives me nuts and the product quality is too random for my tastes.

Agreed for the most part...but sometimes stuff shows up on eBay that simply isn't normally available, and then I'll use eBay. You're right about the whole experience driving one nuts, but in truth there's no way I'd have gotten a Kowa 55mm f/1.1 lens anywhere else. On eBay, I've seen three in the last month. So eBay for stuff that I can't find elsewhere, and Freestyle, Calumet, or B&H for everthing else. (Excepting B&W film, where J&C get all of my business regardless of price or other considerations. Their customer service is so far above great that I'll buy whatever I can from them.)

B-3 · Nov 4, 2005

If you're looking for something that is otherwise impossible to find, AND you have the time available to deal with the whole bidding experience, PLUS the time to determine (to the extent possible) the product quality details AND deal with any post-purchase aggravations (and inevitable disappointments) then, yes, EBay is THE place.

(I've gotten a couple of diamonds but more lumps of coal from the EBay grab bag.)

B&H customer "service"

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