Azo and Kodachrome, it does not make sense to me.

[Photo Engineer]

My take on some of your previous posts is that the research was already done, and that leaving machines idle means no profit, so they will continue to run thm until a major repair is required and the machines go silent. The investment costs were already sunk. If there is a serious innovation 3-5 years from now, maybe I'll change my mind.

Kodak does research at the present time in an ongoing process. It was both sunk costs and present costs to improve products. You see, the initial discoveries that led to the current films had a fault in terms of keeping. The film simply went bad too fast. So it is easy to sit back and make such a statement. No, I have to disagree with you. Sorry.

Their web page devotes a lot of space to the curve shapes, spectral sensitivites and other characteristics of the new products. They spent a lot of time introducing them at the ICPS conference as well.

PE

 

[John Kasaian]

Gee....I still buy Kodak stuff. Not as much Kodak stuff as I did in the past, but Kodak stopped making some products (like AZO) and didn't come out with a replacement so I've had to look elsewhere. I'd be quite happy being greeted once more by the cheerful yellow and red boxes and envelopes and bottles stocking 100% of my locker (with maybe a shade of Agfa red hiding in the corner) but that can't happen now a days.
I do have to say that Kodak people have always treated me great whenever I called their reps and while I now have Ilford and Kentmere white, Efke green and Foma blue sharing the locker I really don't feel that I've been neglected by the Great Yellow Father in Rochester. I'm actually excited about the new TMY!

 

[CRhymer]

Japanese products - Michael Kadillak's question

Michael;

It has been mentioned here elsewhere by an APUG member from Japan IIRC. I have been unable to find a reference and my last look at the Fuji US site failed to reveal a name.

I'll keep trying.

PE

Try Megaperls. Dirk-san is a member here. He should be able to help.

Cheers,
Clarence

 

[Photo Engineer]

Here is a fact.

From a dead start in 2005, I am now able to match Azo with the qualifications noted by Alex Hawley and myself here. At the same time and with the same investment any other company could do the same with a dedicated staff in less time. (probably better)

Either they are not able to do it, don't care, or the market is too small. Ilford, Kentmere, Fuji and EFKE can all do it at the present time if they really want to and that is the short list. Or....... the company is incompetent!

I have blocked out the scaling problems, keeping problems and coating problems in this formula for myself, others can too with great alacrity! Yet, we see nothing on the near horizon unless M&P are about to announce something.

I have found that this is not a hard task. It can be done at home and therefore it can be done in the $1M lab such as I had at Kodak. John above asks about Azo. Well, the companies I listed can make a good work alike, but don't. The reason appears to be the market. There is none except that created by a few lovers of Azo. IDK how large that is or whether it justifies the work, that is TBD by the market itself when the time comes.

But, if the market is large enough, the task is simple enough to make money on Azo paper. Or, there is a reason why no one is jumping into it.

That is the crux of the matter.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

Try Megaperls. Dirk-san is a member here. He should be able to help.

Cheers,
Clarence

Joto desu.

However, it is nearly bed time here Clarence and the Bills are losing to NE as expected by a big margin unless they scored big time while I've been typing here. The Steelers also lost!

Thanks.

Ron

 

[Curt]

Mis-Trust; Where did the last master roll of Azo go? Who can trust a company that says it will sell the last roll to a person who will distribute it and then cut off communications and the product disappears? You can't believe anything Kodak says. They are getting out of the film business and into digital and inkjet or they are continuing film or they will be continuing film for the "foreseeable" future. Who really knows? We have heard so much bull from companies that you can't believe anything. Remember JandC?

If it's at Freestyle then it's on the market, if it's not, it's not. As far as I am concerned Kodak has screwed its reputation. I when to Art Center College of Design, for a short time, before I went to Brooks Institute of Photography. I already had a BS in Photography and Graphic Design before I went to those schools. In every school I attended I used Kodak materials. Brooks was even referred to as a Kodak school. Later I went to work in Radiation Therapy and Radiology and the film and processors were all Kodak. From film to X-Omat.

Now every time I use HC110 I try not to get too attached to it, Kodak might pull it without notice at any time. Kodak is quickly becoming a part of our dead history.

Or maybe I don't really mean any of this for the foreseeable future.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Curt;

The story of the last master roll of Azo is a mystery with 3 or more different stories including one in which it was not up to specs. The product was cancelled. What more can I say. The rest of it is hearsay.

You may want to read Nostradamus. Hister is said to have bought the last rolette of Azottium. Muahahahaha. JK.

Adding this: All of these stories come from people who are outside of EK AFAIK and have no knowledge of the true story.

PE

 

[Terence]

Kodak does research at the present time in an ongoing process. It was both sunk costs and present costs to improve products. You see, the initial discoveries that led to the current films had a fault in terms of keeping. The film simply went bad too fast. So it is easy to sit back and make such a statement. No, I have to disagree with you. Sorry.

Their web page devotes a lot of space to the curve shapes, spectral sensitivites and other characteristics of the new products. They spent a lot of time introducing them at the ICPS conference as well.

PE

PE, if I'm mistaken it was from reading too much into your previous posts.

Your comments on the revised TMY: "Kodak had done all of the research, but I thought that they wouldn't invest in bringing an improved B&W film to market. Their studies apparently showed otherwise and I was wrong. There is a market for improved B&W as far as Kodak is concerned."

Your comments on the revised Portra: "It took about 10 years and that much money to bring out 2 electron sensitization and they are still perfecting it."

Your comments on Kodak's technology backlog: "He said that Kodak has a considerable wealth of analog technology on the shelf which they will never be able to put into products due to the extremely rapid decline in analog photographic sales."

Entirely possible I misunderstood you, but you seemed pretty clear.

As to Kodak's website, try getting to the "professional" materials from www.kodak.com without using the search function. I agree the info is on their website, but you can't find it unless you already know it's there.

 

[spb854]

What about the chemicals we use to process these films?

I'm really NOT in a position to pull out a formula, order each individual chemical, weight them out then mix them in proper order only for it to last for the roll that I'll be developing.

Nope, I like the "TV dinner" chemicals (mix it up and it's really to go and will keep for some time).

I know you can get the chemicals and "do it yourself", but the manufactors have the products from start to finish and I like that.

I'm not ready to do dagarrotype processing.

I hope Kodak stays with us.

 

[Michael Kadillak]

Michael;

It has been mentioned here elsewhere by an APUG member from Japan IIRC. I have been unable to find a reference and my last look at the Fuji US site failed to reveal a name.

I'll keep trying.

PE

Gary Smith is a LF photographer that lives in Japan and has contacts with Japanese photographers and has had discussions recently with Toyo. He posts on the LF forum and might be able to assist us in this project.

Cheers!

 

[tjaded]

I guess I'm getting in this conversation a bit late, but here are my two cents. I love so many Kodak products and will continue to buy them as long as they are available. That being said, I do get frustrated when a good Kodak product goes away. The frustration is not directed towards Kodak per se, it is frustration at the way the world works. I wish there was a scenario where Kodachrome had enough support to be made in 120 and 4x5. I would probably never shoot E-6 again in that situation. There were/are/will be more products that come and go...I am sad that I seem to have entered the game a this later stage and did not get a chance to fully utilize the great films produced by Kodak. I still use Kodak Ultra Endura paper and will continue to as long as they make it (sadly it seems more likely that the paper will last longer than my access to a processor!) Maybe things will work out in the long run and some of these things might make a return. Not likely, but I can hope.

I do wish Kodak could find a way to have a voice here, but at this point I can see why they would be a little gun shy. Can you imagine how crazy it would be for the poor person that took on that job?

For all the frustration and sadness I have with Kodak, it is only because they make some AMAZING stuff that is impossible to replace. There are other companies that make things that are just as amazing in there own way, but this is a Kodak thread, right? A comparison to Fuji has been made a few times in this thread, and one thing they have done VERY right was to listen to the consumers and bring back Velvia 50...and without dumping Velvia 100. That made a big impact on me. I appreciate the things Kodak is doing (new Portra line, etc.) but I am less enthusiastic only because I don't ever shoot portra! Like others have said, I just hope Kodak can stick around.

Matt

 

[sun of sand]

Who made the most Azo-type paper? If Kodak was the king than other companies wouldn't have been able to compete in such a relatively small market so they wouldn't have been producing it very much.
Now with Kodak out of the Azo game you would think other companies would jump on it
It sure seems as though there is SOME market for it considering that people here on APUG are paying/praying for such a product
But if some smaller company were to produce it and make money on it
Wouldn't Kodak notice it and get back in with their perhaps better product and fulfill the need that is there making the smaller company waste their time in doing so?

I don't know, I'm just playing the game. lol -and that means "lots of laughs" not "Laughing out loud" ..I don't laugh out loud very often from stuff on the net

Would Kodak dominate the marketplace like that? I don't know. Does kodak do one-offs? They could saturate the market for years with an Azo run. Are they planning on doing that at some point? ..waiting for ebay and the like to go dry and do a run once every 5 years charging more for the first batches and as it ages reduce price to the previous normal lol

I'm just playing along, PE.
I don't truly care about these products.
Hell, I'm using 35mm because I'm not going to pay $5K for perhaps the same quality AND sit in front of the computer developing carpal tunnel syndrome and a fat ass.
When 12-15MB digital gets reasonable in price and when Kodak develops technology to "equal" film
Dump 90% of 35mm.

But digital has very few consumables. Kodak better produce great stuff either going into Every camera or start making revolutionary cameras themselves. P&S ain't gonna cut it, I don't think
and I think that's why people are upset with Kodak.
No one likes watching the king fall


If Kodak were the Canon or Nikon of digital would people be so upset?
Kodak is losing more film by the day and still ain't nothing in digital.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Well, I just don't listen to all of it. I buy what I like. I am the market. What I buy counts. I did not buy Azo (except for some 2nd hand to try out) since I felt no need to. Same as I have never shot Kodachrome since I felt no need to.
Maybe more people feel the way I do?
- Thomas

 

[PKM-25]

Unless I have missed something, Kodak still makes Kodachrome 64 and it is still good stock. I think the folks who love it still use as much as they always will and do appreciate Kodak hanging in there.

Lately, I have been swamped by a mix of digital and kodachrome work so I have not been able to give the project as much attention as I would like.

I would like to see more people use it and with the help and insight of others, I will keep getting the awareness out there.

Feel free to visit the site and drop me a line if you have an idea or would like to volunteer to get this awareness *Much* larger..

 

[sun of sand]

..and the BUFFALO BILLS
Hhaaaahhaa

Losman is uhh
Anyone remember Rob Johnson? Dude ain't a QB. Edwards is at least a real QB. How about we throw the ball some and stop playin' for FG's?

Both Kodak and Buffalo are rebuilding.

 

[Terence]

Unless I have missed something, Kodak still makes Kodachrome 64 and it is still good stock. I think the folks who love it still use as much as they always will and do appreciate Kodak hanging in there.

Lately, I have been swamped by a mix of digital and kodachrome work so I have not been able to give the project as much attention as I would like.

I would like to see more people use it and with the help and insight of others, I will keep getting the awareness out there.

Feel free to visit the site and drop me a line if you have an idea or would like to volunteer to get this awareness *Much* larger..

Pretty sure this kills all of it:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...iscontinuedNotice.jhtml?id=0.2.26.14.25&lc=en

 

[eclarke]

If every member of the forum went out and bought $500.00 of Kodak products simultaneously, the purchase would represent about 1 11/2 hours of Kodak sales when they were at their peak. This was one BIG company and the volumes of product we discuss here just don't mean anything in Kodak's real world. Order a dozen railcars of Azo and they will make it...EC

 

[gr82bart]

Ha!....I still even have the tube that I got last year at PhotoExpo with the free...count'em...free....rolls of Kodak color film.

As opposed to Fuji giving away - oh look - nothing! No film. Zip.

Regards, Art.

 

[gr82bart]

BTW, where is the Fuji rep here?

Great question. Every time APUGers ask this question, I want to jump in and ask "Where the Fuji rep is?"

Regards, Art.

 

[gr82bart]

However, the perception of how Kodak relates to its audience, specifically us enthusiasts, is a little lacking. Would it hurt to have someone here that we could talk to and have a dialogue with?

Why would Kodak go to a site with members it feels denigrates them constantly?

Regards, Art.

 

[gr82bart]

Fuji UK has (or, being in the UK, they would say "have") their own website with discussion forums, so they respond there.

It's not Fuji's site. It's a site created by the marketing firm Fuji UK outsources their marketing business to. Let's be clear about that.

Regards, Art.

 

[Matt5791]

There was a lot less of an atmosphere of "Kodak bashing" on the cine forums when the late John Pytlak was there to field questions.

You beat me to it - I was going to mention Mr Pytlak. When anyone asked a question on Filmshooting.com or Cinematography.com he was there to give a detailed answer, especially if it was technical and connected with with film emulsions, Kodak, projection or telecine.

I once sent him an email and he took the trouble to send me a really detailed response.

He won an Oscar once too, for some development in film telecine.

Here is a link to just one of the 900 odd posts on Filmshooting.com alone, and typical of John's enthusiastic involvement (scroll up to read his posts) - especially as this is a Kodak bashing thread!

http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/viewtopic.php?p=135187&highlight=#135187

Matt

 

[gr82bart]

As an amateur, their seeming lack of marketing/public relations towards amateurs does not help.

OK so now you are Kodak's MJ Hellyar and her marketing department VP. What would you do? No hypotheticals, no theory, no generalities, no going back in time, no 20/20 - step by step, what would you do now?

Regards, Art.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Art- there's a give and take involved. Sure, the amount of love Kodak gets here is rather thin relative to what say Ilford gets, and the abuse, disproportionate. However, APUG are customers. If Kodak cares about connecting to their customers, then they need to put some reps out there who can come and talk, and take the initial heat. I can remember back in the day when I worked in photo retail, the Fuji rep would come by the store periodically and talk to the salespeople on the floor. He also offered to lend out just about any camera in the Fuji lineup for a weekend to us, the staff, or to any potential serious customer (our store manager nixed the "to the staff" part - told us he wouldn't pass that request on if it came up through him). We NEVER saw the Kodak reps. I met the Kodak rep at an ASMP meeting, finally. When I met her there, she was terrific.

The perception of "arrogance" on the part of Big K has been around for a long time, right or wrong. Kodak used to have all kinds of neat promotions to encourage folks to use their various professional film products - they had that Kodak Points program that you got bonus points you could spend in their promo catalog (which had some REALLY COOL stuff in it, like leather jackets, camera bags and even lighting equipment). They killed that off, and never replaced it.

I know you can't earn interest on warm fuzzies, but Kodak hasn't been giving out any warm fuzzies to the film community. I also know the Kodak rep who steps up and speaks here on an official basis would take a considerable amount of heat in the beginning. And they'd take it from the folks who are deeply emotionally invested in niche products, that stand ZERO chance of coming back. I think once the reality of the situation sinks in, folks will grow up and get over the fact that they can't get their pet product anymore, and life will get better for everyone.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Scott;

Did you get your really cool free film yet from Kodak? Or did Fuji send you some instead? Every call Kodak or go to their web site for info and compare it to the Fuji web site? There is a world of difference.

As for the goodies, actually they have vanished along with the 90% sales drop in analog products and so Kodak literally cannot afford to do as much in the way of promos nowdays.

PE