Aviphot 200 in 135? HR-100? Is it possible Adox?

[Helge]

Since it seems HR-50 in 120 is going to have to wait some time, here is another idea:
Aviphot 200 with Speedboost.
The Rollei packings of this film in 135 is not as problematic as the 120 versions.
But
A. I'd rather not support Maco, with it's current practices.
B. Speedboost is definitely something that works to flatten the contrast allowing more real speed.

I'd think this would be an obvious next step.
IR is also about half a stop better with this film too (every little bit counts in IR).
On par with SFX, and with a tad better extension and finer grain.

 

[haliderollei]

Slightly off topic, my bad. But what is up with Macodirect? I'm unaware of that sitation.

 

[AgX]

There is nothing up with Macodirect that has come to my knowledge. What Helge likely is referring to is about Maco, the actual firm and not their webshop, and here about their labelling of films and and their respective datasheets. Though this is rather a old issue.

Now back to the Adox and the topic...

 

[Anon Ymous]

I suspect this would harm the sales of their CHS100 II film, not exactly what they want.

 

[Helge]

There is nothing up with Macodirect that has come to my knowledge. What Helge likely is referring to is about Maco, the actual firm and not their webshop, and here about their labelling of films and and their respective datasheets. Though this is rather a old issue.

Now back to the Adox and the topic...

That, and other stuff, where I can’t get into the sourceS.
Of course this could be construed as borderline slander and gossip, so please disregard it as anything but my own personal motivation.
And perhaps as a call to be generally more skeptical and inquisitive about where you put your money.
Dig a bit deeper. We have better tools to do that than ever. It’s the only way the free market would ever work in any small way.

 

[Helge]

I suspect this would harm the sales of their CHS100 II film, not exactly what they want.

Because it’s a 100 film? Sounds a bit daft as a reason. They are practically each other’s opposites on all other counts, than the supposed speed.

 

[Helge]

That, and other stuff, where I can’t get into the sourceS.
Of course this could be construed as borderline slander and gossip, so please disregard it as anything but my own personal motivation.
And perhaps as a call to be generally more skeptical and inquisitive about where you put your money.
Dig a bit deeper. We have better tools to do that than ever. It’s the only way the free market would ever work in any small way.

Just found an old canister for SuperPan 200.
Seems Maco had bought the right to use the Agfa name some years ago.
Even then, they still insisted on adding the Rollei moniker.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

We go quite a bit off topic I think. But I would like to add that Copex Rapid is sold as Agfa and not as Rollei.
Fotoimpex sells this as Spur DSX

 

[Henning Serger]

I suspect this would harm the sales of their CHS100 II film, not exactly what they want.

No, it would not hurt the sales of CHS 100 II at all. Just the opposite: Even more ADOX customers.
Because:
Agfa Aviphot Pan 200 and ADOX CHS 100 II are completely different films, with different characteristics and strengths.
You cannot replace one by the other.
But both can be complementary and forming an excellent duo:

Aviphot 200 is
- superpanchromatic, red and skin tones are rendered ligther
- has a strong S-shape characteristic curve, which could be significantly improved by "Speed Boost" technology, but the general S-shape will remain, offering a distinct look and tonality
- can be also used as infrared film
- has very very good reversal capabilities.

CHS 100 II is
- orthopanchromatic, red and skin tones are rendered darker
- has a linear chracteristic curve shape
- not usable as infrared film
- is a bit finer grained and higher resolving than Aviphot Pan 200.

As a CHS 100 II user I would really appreciate having Aviphot Pan 200 with Speed Boost from ADOX. I would buy the same amount of CHS 100 II as before, for all the purposes I like and use this film.
And I would in addition buy the new offering, too. Because Aviphot Pan 200 would be better with Speed Boost than without it. And ADOX would have a new customer in me for an additional film. In addition to my remaining CHS 100 II purchases.
I know lots of photographers who would do exactly the same immediately, if that film would be introduced.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[JParker]

Since it seems HR-50 in 120 is going to have to wait some time, here is another idea:
Aviphot 200 with Speedboost.
The Rollei packings of this film in 135 is not as problematic as the 120 versions.
But
A. I'd rather not support Maco, with it's current practices.
B. Speedboost is definitely something that works to flatten the contrast allowing more real speed.

I'd think this would be an obvious next step.
IR is also about half a stop better with this film too (every little bit counts in IR).
On par with SFX, and with a tad better extension and finer grain.

+ 1,000!
That is really an excellent idea!
I would buy an Adox HR-100 with Speed-Boost, based on Aviphot Pan 200, immediately.
The Speed-Boost would offer a better tonality and shadow detail. And I would much prefer buying from Adox than from other suppliers with their often problematic marketing policies.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Me too!

 

[Film-Niko]

Me too!

Count me in as well!!
Such a film would be a "dream come true" for me!! And an excellent addition to the market, and to the ADOX film portfolio.
And I know several other photographers who like Aviphot Pan 200, but would like to buy it from a reliable and trustworthy source like ADOX, especially if improved with Speed-Boost.

 

[Film-Niko]

No, it would not hurt the sales of CHS 100 II at all. Just the opposite: Even more ADOX customers.
Because:
Agfa Aviphot Pan 200 and ADOX CHS 100 II are completely different films, with different characteristics and strengths.
You cannot replace one by the other.
But both can be complementary and forming an excellent duo:

Aviphot 200 is
- superpanchromatic, red and skin tones are rendered ligther
- has a strong S-shape characteristic curve, which could be significantly improved by "Speed Boost" technology, but the general S-shape will remain, offering a distinct look and tonality
- can be also used as infrared film
- has very very good reversal capabilities.

CHS 100 II is
- orthopanchromatic, red and skin tones are rendered darker
- has a linear chracteristic curve shape
- not usable as infrared film
- is a bit finer grained and higher resolving than Aviphot Pan 200.

As a CHS 100 II user I would really appreciate having Aviphot Pan 200 with Speed Boost from ADOX. I would buy the same amount of CHS 100 II as before, for all the purposes I like and use this film.
And I would in addition buy the new offering, too. Because Aviphot Pan 200 would be better with Speed Boost than without it. And ADOX would have a new customer in me for an additional film. In addition to my remaining CHS 100 II purchases.
I know lots of photographers who would do exactly the same immediately, if that film would be introduced.

Best regards,
Henning

Thanks for the detailed assessment.
Makes perfect sense!

 

[pentaxuser]

Four posts only in the last 20 months, all of them today in the last couple of hours and only 9 before that since its start? I wonder why Helge's idea hasn't excited more interest Is Speedboost not easily applied to Aviphot 200 by Adox or is it simply that Adox cannot keep up with current demand for its products such as XT-3 and its current films and until it does it cannot turn its attention to other things?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Film-Niko]

I wonder why Helge's idea hasn't excited more interest

I can only speak for myself:
1. Unfortunately I had not seen this thread when it was originally started.
2. Because of the latest occurrences in the market concerning Aviphot Pan 200 an offering by ADOX with speed boost is in my opinon more valuable than ever.

 

[miha]

@pentaxuser,

I remember Mirko of ADOX saying on several occasions that the ISO 400 segment (something that the AP 200 with the speedboost would likely become) is to saturated for yet another ISO 400 film - and I was really hoping for the Adox Pan 400 from 2010 to become more than just an experiment.

 

[Film-Niko]

@pentaxuser,

I remember Mirko of ADOX saying on several occasions that the ISO 400 segment (something that the AP 200 with the speedboost would likely become) is to saturated for yet another ISO 400 film - and I was really hoping for the Adox Pan 400 from 2010 to become more than just an experiment.

The possible ADOX film will not be in that ISO 400 class. Aviphot Pan 200 is an aerial film, and for those the sensitivity standard is much different, as we have often talked about on photrio.
For standard applications on the ground you have to add two stops for a good shadow detail.
AS the OP Helge has correctly said, with speed boost a reasonable EI would be about 100.
And the unique selling point of that film would be the versatility: Standard film, infrared film, and possibly slide film. All in one film.
How much other films in the ISO 100 class do we have with such versatility?
None!

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Considering that Aviphot is what I'm shooting for the second year non-stop and liking Adox HR-50/Scala 50 iteration very much, I'd buy a speed-boosted bulk roll of "HR-100" on the spot. Or two.

I'd buy iterations without Antihalation layers too, so that:
- I don't have to spend half an hour removing them if I want the HIE look;
- practical speed would increase even more, because such treatment results in additional 1-2 stops of sensitivity due to the "additional exposure" as a direct result of halation in material.

 

[Helge]

Considering that Aviphot is what I'm shooting for the second year non-stop and liking Adox HR-50/Scala 50 iteration very much, I'd buy a speed-boosted bulk roll of "HR-100" on the spot. Or two.

I'd buy iterations without Antihalation layers too, so that:
- I don't have to spend half an hour removing them if I want the HIE look;
- practical speed would increase even more, because such treatment results in additional 1-2 stops of sensitivity due to the "additional exposure" as a direct result of halation in material.

Some of the speedup is also from the recent washing of the film. Bromide (AFAIR?) byproducts are washed away.
Washing film was a standard procedure to hyper astro film. Problem is you have to use it pretty fast or it fogs.

 

[Helge]

Four posts only in the last 20 months, all of them today in the last couple of hours and only 9 before that since its start? I wonder why Helge's idea hasn't excited more interest Is Speedboost not easily applied to Aviphot 200 by Adox or is it simply that Adox cannot keep up with current demand for its products such as XT-3 and its current films and until it does it cannot turn its attention to other things?

Thanks

pentaxuser

It’s probably just that I made a post one person found interesting, and they did a thread history search. I do it sometimes myself.
Then it simply was the right time for Aviphot and IR? I can feel interest rising in film IR through the last few years.
Many people new to the hobby probably simply didn’t know about it.

Adox is being sensibly cautious. But don’t be too sensible guys. ;-)

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Problem is you have to use it pretty fast or it fogs.

That's why I rolled two to see to what degree if any - one I've shot right away, the other is stored for some time to check for fogging - say a month later.