Autofocus film SLR with good mirror dampening

[Henning Serger]

Hi all,

I'm looking for an auto-focus 35mm film SLR camera. These days the only manual focus 35mm SLR I really enjoy using is a Leicaflex SL2, in large part because the mirror clap on that camera is so well damped. I know this seems like a vague/subjective criterion, but wondering people thoughts. The Nikon F4, F5, and F6 come to mind. Would a prosumer model like the F100 be noticeably less refined in this one category?

Thanks!

Ed

Hello Ed,

I am using all these Nikons you are considering for years by myself:
- F90X
- F100
- F4s
- F5
- F6.
As you are looking for a so well damped mirror clap the Nikon F6 is the way to go. It has by far the best mirror dampening of all Nikon SLRs ( and even later DSLRs).
Because it was one of Nikon's main R&D targets to refine all mechanical operations to perfection with the F6 (at introduction interviews with the engineers who designed the F6 were published). And they succeeded. Perfect mirror and shutter dampening was high on their priority list. And it is one of the many reasons why I love using my two F6 so much. Because of this excellent dampening and vibration reduction it is possible for me to also use slower shutter speeds when needed without having blurry shots.
The F100 is very good in that regard, too. But definitely not on the same level as the F6.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[ediz7531]

I ended up with an F6. Truly incredible camera.
Question: how many rolls per set of batteries can one expect to get in normal shooting conditions?
I was 14 frames into the second roll and the battery level indicator briefly went down to 2/3 full, only to recover back up a little later.
To be fair, I have been tinkering with the settings, firing the shutter several times even when film not loaded, and tested the auto focus system (including its ability to track my 1-year old's movements). So my usage hasn't been representative of normal.

 

[Henning Serger]

I ended up with an F6. Truly incredible camera.

Congratulations!

Question: how many rolls per set of batteries can one expect to get in normal shooting conditions?

I am using my two F6 always with the MB-40 vertical grip / battery grip (because of improved ergonomics and optimal power supply).
And in the two MB-40s I have always the 1900mAh Panasonic Eneloop rechargeable batteries, AA cells. I am using these in all of my film cameras (F5, F4s, F100, F90X, F80) and flashes which can use AA cells. Eneloops are excellent performers.
With them in the MB-40 I get about 35 - 55 36Exp. rolls per charge with my F6s.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I was 14 frames into the second roll and the battery level indicator briefly went down to 2/3 full, only to recover back up a little later.

Sounds like it could be dirt on the battery contacts. Clean the metal tabs with a pencil eraser and then give them a cleaning with a wee bit of baking soda and a damp paper towel, wipe dry.

 

[ediz7531]

@Henning Serger Those are very good numbers with the grip. Do you have a recollection, if applicable, of what it's like without the grip?
@Nicholas Lindan I did indeed think about this. The camera looks like new. The battery contacts look flawless.

Anyhow, finished a second roll, and haven't see the indicator show the 2/3 mark again; still at full bars.

 

[Henning Serger]

@Henning Serger Those are very good numbers with the grip. Do you have a recollection, if applicable, of what it's like without the grip?

No sorry, I have not. Because I have bought my two F6 new both with MB-40 vertical/battery grip and used both right from the beginning exclusively with the grip. Because of the even improved ergonomics, because I shoot often in vertical/portrait orientation, and because of the superior power supply the grip is offering.
I am also using my F90X, F80 and F100 with the battery grips.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Light Capture]

Congratulations. It is the best film camera you can get.
Battery reading doesn't mean much on F6. Falls down a bit quickly. It won't do too many rolls without grip. I can get 10+ rolls on one set of batteries.

As said earlier Nikon invested a lot in mirror and shutter vibration dampening R&D early on. They were so confident that mirror lock up was removed on F100.
On newer bodies they removed direct mirror lock up control and moved it as a secondary control.
I tested early digitals Canon vs. Nikon since they had similar shutters and Nikon was significantly better at low speeds.
On some cheaper Canon lenses front end is loose and mirror/shutter shock would rattle it and produce blur up to 1/200s or even higher sometimes.
I tested this again on later digital bodies and there was still difference there even with heavier pro lenses. Easily one stop of difference in Nikon's favor.
Didn't have chance to test it on film bodies but would expect the same result.

In one of the old photo magazines, there was an article I can't find anymore, that had a motion blur test done with Leica.
If I remember correctly conclusion was that even when they tied it to concrete block and used 1/1000s there was still some motion blur visible.
While mirror slap is most of it, there is still some blur from shutter itself.

On Hasselblad, blur can be easily seen most of the time at 1/500s without mirror lock up.

 

[eli griggs]

No an autofocus but if you want a really quite 135, look for a leaf shutter camera or lens, such as the Canon QL17.

Other than Hasselblad, my cameras with leaf shutters are so quite, it's almost unreal.

The MJU would be a great quite camera, IF the winder was hacked with a interrupt switch, so you can get the shot and wind on after lowering the camera.

Of course, neither of these cameras have mirrors but the MJU does have a nice autofocus feature.

 

[Huss]

Battery life is an issue with the F6. I don't want to use the MB-40 as I don't want that massive increase in size and weight. Regular disposable cells last about 10-15 rolls. I have some Watson rechargeables, and the first set would go from fully charged to dead in 2 rolls! Watson replaced those and the current ones last over 20 rolls per charge. But since then capacity seems to have dropped.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Battery life is an issue with the F6. I don't want to use the MB-40 as I don't want that massive increase in size and weight. Regular disposable cells last about 10-15 rolls. I have some Watson rechargeables, and the first set would go from fully charged to dead in 2 rolls! Watson replaced those and the current ones last over 20 rolls per charge. But since then capacity seems to have dropped.

And now you are back to my choice the F100. Long battery life, lighter, easier to handle, and just plain better.

 

[Huss]

And now you are back to my choice the F100. Long battery life, lighter, easier to handle, and just plain better.

The F100's lighter weight is due to all that cost cutting which results in so many having broken back doors, broken Dpads, broken meter switches, broken diopter adjustments.

Doing a search for F100s on ebay is like looking at an elephant grave yard. What were once wonderful beasts...

 

[Sirius Glass]

The F100's lighter weight is due to all that cost cutting which results in so many having broken back doors, broken Dpads, broken meter switches, broken diopter adjustments.

Doing a search for F100s on ebay is like looking at an elephant grave yard. What were once wonderful beasts...

I do not use the F100 to pound nails so I have used it for years without a problem. On the other hand if one is a klutz no camera will survive. F100s are much less expensive than F6s.

 

[Radost]

Canon Elan7NE US, Canon 7s Japan,
Latest canon semi pro SLR. Amazing everything except lack of spot metering. But a great cam.

 

[gone]

I don't suppose that any of the mirror noises were ever recorded for decibel readings or were they?

You can sometimes find this out by googling it, but since we have no idea where the recording volume was set at by the person who made it, that means we just get a general idea of the type of shutter sound. Some shutters are not necessarily loud, just annoying, which is worse.

All my Nikkormats had sweet sounding shutters, but when I bought an EL it made a "ping" that none of the other models made. Never did find out what caused it, but someone else noted the sound on theirs too. That ping was so aggravating, the camera was sold.

 

[gone]

What is wrong with a loud shutter? It is not like we take photographs in a library. There are a number of high end cameras with a good THWACK!

You're right of course. There are indeed a lot of cameras with very loud shutters, and some of them cost lots of money. I, however, do not shoot those cameras because It's just bad engineering and bad design that causes it, as well as a lack of photographic understanding.

What if I want to get a second shot? That is a very real issue, because in many situations you can't if the camera sounds like a rifle going off. When my Brocica S2's shutter went off, it scared even me! Mike Eckman described it as "If you could somehow combine the sounds of this camera with the look of a Zenit Photosniper, you’d have the attention of any local S.W.A.T. team in seconds." I don't know about you, but I can live w/o that experience.

 

[ediz7531]

No an autofocus but if you want a really quite 135, look for a leaf shutter camera or lens, such as the Canon QL17.

Other than Hasselblad, my cameras with leaf shutters are so quite, it's almost unreal.

The MJU would be a great quite camera, IF the winder was hacked with a interrupt switch, so you can get the shot and wind on after lowering the camera.

Of course, neither of these cameras have mirrors but the MJU does have a nice autofocus feature.

I wasn't necessarily looking for quiet. Just a mirror clap that wasn't off putting. Kinda of a subjective criterion, I admit.
The F6 meets this with high marks. It's very unlikely to become my main camera. I still gravitate towards TLRs, but having the F6 has its use for my current needs.

Battery life is an issue with the F6. I don't want to use the MB-40 as I don't want that massive increase in size and weight. Regular disposable cells last about 10-15 rolls. I have some Watson rechargeables, and the first set would go from fully charged to dead in 2 rolls! Watson replaced those and the current ones last over 20 rolls per charge. But since then capacity seems to have dropped.

Thanks, @Huss for the baselines! Yes, I'm unlikely to go for the grip for the same reasons. Well, getting 10-15 rolls per set isn't too bad. At $12 for a set of 6 batteries, that's <~ $0.40 per roll, which is a relatively small perturbation compared to the cost of film.
I might look into those rechargeable Watson batteries and charger on B&H though.

And now you are back to my choice the F100. Long battery life, lighter, easier to handle, and just plain better.

I did get to test an F100 (two in fact), from Roberts Camera. The first one was missing a big chunk of the shutter curtain, and the replacement they sent had mold in the viewfinder. These two things could happen to any camera of course. It did feel nice in the hands.

 

[drmoss_ca]

Couple of comments on F6 battery life. The first time the camera is used the batteries discharge rather quickly as they are also charging up the internal battery. After that is done, expect 20-30 rolls from a pair of Duracell Lithium 123 non-rechargeable batteries. The problem with the Watson Li rechargeables is that they are only 400mAH capacity, but they do have the 3V output of standard alkaline or lithium CR123 batteries.. I keep three sets and change after two rolls. You can buy higher capacity lithium rechargeable batteries in CR123a size, but they output a higher voltage - 3.7V - and I wouldn't risk my F6's electronics. Even if unharmed, the metering might not be right.

 

[eli griggs]

Couple of comments on F6 battery life. The first time the camera is used the batteries discharge rather quickly as they are also charging up the internal battery. After that is done, expect 20-30 rolls from a pair of Duracell Lithium 123 non-rechargeable batteries. The problem with the Watson Li rechargeables is that they are only 400mAH capacity, but they do have the 3V output of standard alkaline or lithium CR123 batteries.. I keep three sets and change after two rolls. You can buy higher capacity lithium rechargeable batteries in CR123a size, but they output a higher voltage - 3.7V - and I wouldn't risk my F6's electronics. Even if unharmed, the metering might not be right.

Good to know, Thanks.
Eli

 

[Huss]

Just to refresh my memory, I again tested my F6 with fully charged Watson cR123 3V batteries. Using a test roll of film (Kodachrome 40!) and 80 1.8G lens, I shot on continuous hi, then power rewound. Rinsed and repeated 11 times before I lost interest. (Last time I did this I lost interest at over 20 times). Camera showed full charge after 11 rolls fired through it.

 

[tom43]

I also have the F55, F65, F75, F80, F100 and F6. They are all really good dampened with some differences. I have never technically quantified the intensity of the mirror slap, but most likely the F65 has the softest one (not noise). It feels like a digital mirrorless pressing the shutter. Nevertheless, my overall recommendation would go for the F80. It is the best compromise of all the mentioned cameras if price and weight comes on the table. Moreover, many of the advantages of a F100 or F6 are today mostly irrelevant. You will not need > 5 pictures per second with film prices going towards 20€ per roll…And coming back to the mirror dampening: I don’t feel it as superior with respect to this parameter.

 

[Huss]

The F80 really is the deal in Nikon slrs. Awesome camera that the IG masses have not caught on to.

Only problem (apart from the sticky surfaces which can be cleaned with isopropyl alcohol) is the back latch is very susceptible to break, like with the F100.