Autocord with stuck shutter/aperture controls

Duceman

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I recently purchased an Autocord off of Etsy. While the ad stated that the camera was being sold "As Is," the only negative item mentioned therein was that a part of the leatherette on the top plate was coming off. Here is the actual description provided by the seller:

"Up for grabs is a vintage Minolta Autocord condition is good there is some of the label on the top of the camera that is peeling. But there are no broken parts from what I can tell."​

No biggy, I thought. Upon arrival, though, both the shutter and aperture controls are stuck. I don't know if this is something internal, but the shutter control looks to be bent outward and is engaged to the metal ring about which it moves.

I'm thinking the repairs on this are going to be a lot more than just a simple CLA. Before contacting the seller, I thought I would come here and see what others thought. Despite it being sold "as is" the seller does have a 30-day return policy. In this case, being that there was no mention of the stuck levers--which even a novice should have noticed--I think I would have a good case for a return.

Thought?
 

Zathras

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Unless you got it cheap, I'd be inclined inclined to send it back and and look for another one in working order.
I would check with Dan Daniel, who is a member here. He repairs Autocords and has a very good reputation. He might
also have one for sale. Karl Bryan is another person who services Autocords. He worked on my camera a few years
back and did an outstanding job. He might have a camera for sale too. here is his contact info <karl.kathy {{ at }} frontier.com>

Good luck.
 

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Duceman said:
But there are no broken parts from what I can tell."
Click to expand...

That's usually the sort of result you get on Etsy. Most of the sellers don't have a clue about cameras, it's the wild west when it comes to pricing and condition. The upside is that the people are friendly over there, and easy to communicate with, unlike eBay. So since you have a return policy on the camera, I'd do just that. It could be an expensive fix, who knows what happened to it?
 
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Duceman

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Zathras said:
Unless you got it cheap, I'd be inclined inclined to send it back and and look for another one in working order.
Click to expand...

Paid $150 shipped. I don't consider that too expensive. Also, it seems I have a soft part in my heart for old cameras, especially those that need some TLC so that they don't end up in the rubbish bin.

momus said:
That's usually the sort of result you get on Etsy.
Click to expand...

This was my first ever purchase via Etsy. I haven't contacted the seller yet; I understand its a risk buying these via such sites. That being said, I've purchased the vast majority of my photo gear via online auction sites, and I've never really gotten burned.

shutterfinger said:
Post some pictures of the controls and lens.
Ebay's return policy states that you can return any item that is not as described regardless of whether the seller accepts returns or not.
Click to expand...

First, it was Etsy (not eBay).

Second, here are the requested photos. The shutter control is the one on the left in the photos with the red circle on its face.



Notice how the shutter control is bent (lever on the left)


Another view...

 

shutterfinger

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I've only worked on a few TLR's, Graphic, Rolleicord, Rolleiflex.
The speed and aperture are not directly connected to the shutter. They operate gears and or levers that operate the shutter. The grease in the gearing dries out and makes the speed selection and aperture setting difficult to impossible. The speed selection lever may have been hit from the side bending it over, not a deal killer.
Shutter cocking is accomplished by the film advance, similar to a Rolleiflex.
Look at the shutter blades and aperture blades through the front and rear of the taking lens, rust, moderate to heavy, visible on the blades return the camera. Rust no larger than a pin head in a few spots is not a big deal.
Load a scrap roll of film or backing paper and try to run it through the camera.
https://www.butkus.org/chinon/minolta.htm
Baring rust a full CLA should fix this camera.
 

shutterfinger

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Additional: service manual https://learncamerarepair.com/downloads/pdf/minolta-autocord-service-manual.pdf
PDF page 12 shows basic front standard assembly. The shutter speed and aperture appear to be directly connected to the shutter BUT 2109 set couples both to the readout at the top of the standard. 2109 set is not shown with any other breakdown. A stuck/frozen 2109 set will prevent speed and aperture selection.
 
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Duceman

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shutterfinger said:
Look at the shutter blades and aperture blades through the front and rear of the taking lens, rust, moderate to heavy, visible on the blades return the camera. Rust no larger than a pin head in a few spots is not a big deal.
Click to expand...

I just realized that the shutter blades are stuck open at about 4/5.... I can just see the edges of the blades (no rust), and the aperture is at f/8..... no rust on either side, nor do I see any excess oil (they in fact appear to be dry).

That the shutter is not resetting is also concerning.
 
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Duceman

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Nokton48 said:
I really like my restored Autocord and I am keeping it. I started a useful thread here might want to check it out.
Click to expand...

Thanks. This is my second Autocord. My first one is a Seikosha-MX, and I absolutely love it. Can take amazing photos, if the operator know what he's doing, of course.
 
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Duceman

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shutterfinger said:
If that camera had set for years without use then someone tried to fire the shutter it might stick open from dried lubrication.
I would try to operate the film advance and focus before deciding to keep or return it.
Click to expand...

Film advance lever winds, and in so doing, closes the shutter about 75% when the film advance lever is rotated to the 3 o'clock position (again, shutter blades look clean with no rust or oil on them). But moving the film advance past 3 o'clock, the shutter blades begin to retract, and by the 5 o'clock position, they are about 4/5 closed.

Focusing is super smooth.
 

shutterfinger

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The shutter is not cocking. When the cocking lever is moved to the cock position it should latch but if it does not then the shutter opens and closes as the cocking lever moves from cocked to full release.
The most common cause is dried lubrication but a broken spring or part is another possible cause. The shutter blades not fully closing also suggest dried lubrication preventing full travel of the blade controller during operation.
Everything you have posted so far says the camera has set for years without use. At worst it needs a replacement shutter.
 
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Duceman

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Thanks for your input.
 
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Duceman

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Well, looks like I've got limited options. Tried contacting the Etsy seller yesterday, but as of yet, no response. Reading some of his feedback, this appears to be his MO when it comes to bad transactions. Oh well.

Contacted Karl Bryan yesterday.... responded to me within a few hours. The fate of the camera will be in his hands as I'm dropping it off at the post office today to be sent to him.

Will keep you posted as to the final outcome. However, I'm feeling optimstic Mr. Bryan will be able to get it going again.
 

campy51

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It sounds like a cleaning will fix everything but I think $150 was too high. I bought 3 of these cameras all with frozen focus levers and didn't pay over $100 for mine. Is the focus lever moving freely? If you do talk to the seller see if you can get a partial refund. I did all the work myself but if you don't want to do it yourself I would contact Dan. The Autocords are very nice and after Dan does an overhaul it will be as good as a Rolleiflex.
 

campy51

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shutterfinger said:
post 12: Focusing is super smooth.
Post 15: Tried contacting the Etsy seller yesterday, but as of yet, no response. Reading some of his feedback, this appears to be his MO when it comes to bad transactions. Oh well.
Click to expand...
Missed the smooth focus, but as you can see I said "if you do talk to the seller" meaning the seller may respond at some point.
 

Helge

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Autocords are great cameras, when they work. They are somewhat overplayed/hyped though.
The price is at the same point or above Yashicas and Rolleicords. They where much more of a deal and "secret" ten years ago when you could pick and chose and afford to loose.
There is just one too many potential gotchas for this camera to carry the price it does.
For example:

- The focus lever being stiff or breaking.
- The finder hood being crooked, bend and having the little sports finder hatch catch broken off.
- The back lock not clicking and sealing.

Much of it not something you have much of a chance or time to really explore at a typical local pickup. And not something, a typical innocent "I know nothing about it" online seller will ever feel obliged to tell you or document with photos in the add.
 
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Duceman

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campy51 said:
It sounds like a cleaning will fix everything but I think $150 was too high.
Click to expand...

Too high by how much? $50? In my area, I haven't seen an Autocord offered for less than $150. I take that back; about six months ago there was a seller offering one for $60. I drove out to take a look at it. Unfortunately, it was toast. Even at $60, I declined. That was an hour and a half of my day I wasn't going to get back. In that regard, as long as a unit is in decent looking condition, I'm willing to take a chance. And I think the images produced by Autocords are on par, if not better, than a lot of Rolleiflexes.
 
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Duceman

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Helge said:
Autocords are great cameras, when they work. They are somewhat overplayed/hyped though.
The price is at the same point or above Yashicas and Rolleicords.
Click to expand...

Not around where I live. For example, right now there are two Yashica 124G's on sale locally; one for $300 and the other for $400. Sellers won't budge. Nor have I seen a Rolleicord for less than $300 (again, I'm talking locally where I could get my hands on to inspect prior to purchase).

But I do agree that they are great cameras. I picked up my first Autocord about six months ago. I put a test roll of 100TMX to see how it performed. I was shocked by how crisp the photos came out.
 
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campy51

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I know your not anywhere near me but here's one for a little more but seems to be working fine.
https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/pho/d/melrose-vintage-autocord-minolta-tlr/7378494802.html
Here's the most expensive one I bought, but look at the condition. I fixed it myself but even if I had Dan go through it it would have been well worth it due to the condition.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1248322341...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
 
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Duceman

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Well, this one is close to me. However, I think it may be priced just a bit tad too high...

https://www.etsy.com/listing/490421240/vintage-minolta-autocord-iii-twin-lens
 
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