Autochrome, Kodachrome and home made high speed films

[nickandre]

Should color fix work fine?

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

it's both....at the time I don't think I even knew much about the remjet -- so I didn't try to remove it...dark blobs of it just washed out after the 1st developer

and I did not dry the film before/during re-exposure

in fact during the last white light re-exposure part of the time the film was immersed in the bathtub -- I thought water drops on the film would make the re-exposure uneven & give me weird splotches on the film

considering how little I knew & how much I guessed...it's surprising how well it worked -- yet another reason it's too bad I didn't take notes

 

[Photo Engineer]

See my post elsewhere today about removing remjet with sponges.

PE

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

thanks

I have been able to get remjet off OK in subsequent experiments, although my system was kinda awkward

I just ordered 2 unicolor C41 kits from Freestyle...

I'm thinking of trying the developer that comes with the rockland kit also

while I'm at it...might be fun to see what happens with regular B&W film too

 

[nickandre]

I just ordered 2 unicolor C41 kits from Freestyle...

I'm thinking of trying the developer that comes with the rockland kit also

while I'm at it...might be fun to see what happens with regular B&W film too

1. WHAT?! Suit yourself...

2. I tried it. Results= D- I tried it with small strips. The color didn't work. You could see remnants of colors after strips were left in there for a day or so. It didn't work well at all.

The kit is designed for toning prints. I'm going to tone my color separations on lith film soon. Kodachrome distracted me from that front.

I removed remjet successfully by dunking in sodium sulphite w/ water for a minute and then taking a paper towel and first rubbing it off and then with a clean one which was dipped in the water solution I ran it along the film to remove remnants. Seemed to work judging by the black everywhere and how nothing spewed out of the can after re-rolling and washing.

So you just shone the flashlight on the film?

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

which experiment didn't work?

I don't want to repeat anyone's failed experiment, I prefer to create my own disasters

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

yes I think I just pointed the flashlight at the film

nuthin' fancy at all

too bad I did this before I started taking notes when experimenting.....

 

[Photo Engineer]

I'll repeat a post for Tiberius.

The remjet removal bath referenced elsewhere has no sodium sulfite in it!

Please note this.

PE

 

[nickandre]

When I tried developing scraps of B+W film in the actual developer that came with the kit. They came out ugly. That's when I decided upon C41 developer. I haven't actually tried the kit for what it was designed for yet...maybe next week.

Blah. I have so much photo work going on. Not to mention that friggin coldhead enlarger that has botched this one print 3 times already. No more! I can't print fast enough for my shooting. Guess I should take more bad pictures

</dramatic monologue>

 

[nickandre]

PE,

Oops. It worked tho...

I read once that you could use Borax (w/e that is) or sodium sulphite. I used it because it's D23 minus the Metol and we have it lying around.

--Nicholas

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

ah...thanks

wonder what B&W + C41 dev + couplers would do?




by the way, I CAN say that C-41 dev and Clairol hair coloring will create colors...but they wash out of the film

I still recall happily calling both Clairol & Kodak tech support

Heather at Clairol was quite helpful...and when I called Kodak it was the only time Kodak didn't have an answer for me


that experiment was instigated by a guy at my favorite camera store who said "ya know about the only thing you haven't tried on film is hair coloring"...so of course my next stop was the hair coloring aisle at the local drugstore....and when I read the label I saw a lot of chemicals that I recognized from C41 labels

 

[Photo Engineer]

Clairol creates PPD + aniline dyes which can be water soluable.

What you want is water insoluable dyes.

PE

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

Thanks - Unfortunately, "Heather" didn't know that -- and the Kodak guy probably didn't use "Cinnamon Sunset" on his hair

would the E6 reversal bath work on Kodachrome? ...or is a white light exposure good enough?

I had read that the reason for a reversal bath was that all the developed layers would interfere with the last re-exposure...or do you just need to make the last re-exposure longer/more intense?

When I did it I know it was a looooooong re-exposure

 

[nickandre]

The re-exposure bath would work. I don't think it will take too terribly long to re-expose.

I just tried red re-exposure. The pictures are there. I can't quite tell exposure wise. The density is good, it might be a little light. I was also viewing reflected light from through the base, so I could be wrong. And it hasn't been fixed. so.

Development will happen probably in an hour or two.

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

ah this is excellent

can't wait for my chemicals to arrive so I can join in the fun

 

[nickandre]

So. I finished. Results:

Blue. Very blue. But I have images. Relatively low DMAX for reversal film-probably due to the couplers being weak. I think there are traces of other colors E.G. yellow somewhere. Blue indicates too much red exposure or too much cyan development. Probably the latter. I used 10 minutes at 80-85 degrees F to be closer to the coupler's specs. There is a relatively clear DMIN though. I should have fogged it completely for a frame during camera exposure. Might try a little hypo in the first developer. I think I need to reduce the development times on the CDs. Density is due mainly to first color developer. If I do this again I'll try Blue-Yellow Developer first to shake it up and see the results.

At least I know where I'm going.

This could become time consuming.

I need real K-14 chemistry.

 

[tim_walls]

I'm fascinated by this thread; best thing I've read here on APUG in ages . I'm definitely inspired to have a go myself once I've finished building my darkroom... I'll be buying in some of the Rockland polytoner as a starting point after next payday! (TO use in its own right as well, don't worry.)

I had one question though;

Blue indicates too much red exposure or too much cyan development.

Is 'too much' of the reversal exposure possible? I assumed these would 'expose to completion' as it were.

As in, the tonality is determined by the black & white developer is it not, and you then want *all* the remaining undeveloped silver halide in that layer to be active for the colour developer?

I may, of course, be being dense (unlike the slides ;-).) If I'm not being dense though, then it might be a question of having *under* exposed the other reversals rather than over-exposing the red.

 

[nickandre]

If it were only one layer it wouldn't be possible. However there are multiple layers with a little overlapping sensitivity. Plus my filter didn't match the sensitivity of the film layer. It would have been possible to fog the green or blue layer. It's more difficult because all layers have blue sensitivity but there is a yellow filter in between the blue and other layers to eliminate blue light going through. However, any blue light coming through the back would fog other layers.

I believe I developed too much (and maybe overexposed the re-exposure.)

Ok. the last re-exposure was to white light outside and fogged completely. There was not very much visible yellow dye in the final image. I assume I had developed most of the halide before that.

If all the halide were active, you would have no image. The fact that some halide has been "removed" forms the positive image.

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

maybe we can get a whole herd of people working on this

there are so many different things to test

this is why I love the internet....people working on obscure projects who would normally never know of each other can communicate and share information

 

[tim_walls]

If it were only one layer it wouldn't be possible. However there are multiple layers with a little overlapping sensitivity. Plus my filter didn't match the sensitivity of the film layer. It would have been possible to fog the green or blue layer. It's more difficult because all layers have blue sensitivity but there is a yellow filter in between the blue and other layers to eliminate blue light going through. However, any blue light coming through the back would fog other layers.

Re-exposure light not matching the layer sensitivity/in-built filters would certainly explain activating the halides in the 'wrong' layers causing cyan couplers to form in them, yes. I guess that's not what I understood by the word 'overexposed', although I'm struggling to think of a better term .

If all the halide were active, you would have no image. The fact that some halide has been "removed" forms the positive image.

You'll note my use of the phrase "undeveloped silver halide" ;-). It's the black & white developer that 'removes' the halides you don't want in the positive image, not the amount or otherwise of fogging exposure - everything that's left you want to form colour couplers; i.e. all the silver halide left after the B&W developer you want fogged. (With K14 on a layer by layer basis though as you say, of course.)

Edit: Just wanted to add a big "isn't it?" As in, I'm not sure about any of this so I'm genuinely asking for enlightenment from someone who understands the process better...

 

[nickandre]

Sorry I completely misread your comment. Yes. Higher contrast developers make higher contrast images.

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

what did you use for first dev? IIRC PE had suggested D-19 to me a year or so ago, but I haven't tried it yet

 

[Photo Engineer]

Too much blue might mean underdevelopment of the cyan and magenta in the first developer or overdevelopment of the yellow layer in the first developer. Of course, most all of what you say is also possible. IDK until I see one of the results and even then things may be a little obscure. It may involve the re-exposures, the color developers and etc...

PE

 

[Kirk Keyes]

re:backwards clock..I figured it out last night, emailed a few friends & my porsche mechanic buddy mentioned some porsche transmissions can be re-assembled wrong giving you 5 reverse gears and one very slow forward gear

The Lotus Car Club newsletter about 1978 had a photo of a buxom black lady with a nicely sized afro standing next to what was suposed to be a "James Bond" special edition Lotus 69 Formula 2 car - a wedgy little open seater. The lady was dressed in tan army short-shorts and shirt, with a machine gun in her hands. They said it came in 5 forward gears and one reverse, or one forward gear and 5 reverse...

 

[tim_walls]

I wonder whether or not using LEDs for the fogging steps might be useful if the correct filters were hard to come by... The mean output band of, say, a typical blue LED is around 30nm wide, with total output being in a band around 100nm wide and a peak around 5nm wide; are the sensitivies/filter notches of the relevant layers of film well defined? (Apologies for use of doubtless completely wrong terminology, by the way.)


The reason I'm particularly curious is I have a home-brew continuous line processor project in my head since this thread started and I was contemplating LEDs for the fogging steps...