Authorship of napalm girl' photo

[snusmumriken]

Story here on the Guardian website.

 

[Bazamat]

I would love to watch it when it's out. In this video, Ut shows other photos from the same shoot, but there seems to be difference between Napalm Girl and the other photos. He says the photo was taken with a Leica, of which he carried two. Looks like many photographers were present.
Can any one comment on the possibility of it taken by another camera/lens based on the images alone? Seems its a major argument put forward for Nghe's case.

 

[Don_ih]

Can any one comment on the possibility of it taken by another camera/lens based on the images alone? Seems its a major argument put forward for Nghe's case.

It could have been taken by anyone with a similar (maybe 35mm?) lens.

I'm inclined to believe the Associated Press, though.

 

[Rob Skeoch]

David Burnett is the photographer in the photo, often cropped out, but there on the full-frame shot. He says it was Ut that took the photo, so that works for me.

 

[Tel]

I attended a lecture by Burnett at the B&H event space shortly after the 2012 Olympics, in which he extolled the virtues of his Speed Graphic and reiterated the above assertion about Nick Ut. A powerful photo, whoever took it.

 

[ic-racer]

I'd be interested in analysis of the 16mm film footage of the event. I wonder if that was done in the documentary?

I'm always fascinated that, in this case a still image shocked the world, whereas, probably no one knows about the movie footage, let alone who took the movie.

One can identify at least two photographers, one with probably a Nikon and one with something else (though maybe a movie camera).

 

[Tel]

Of course the real story is in Kim Phuc’s refusal to be a victim, devoting herself to helping the victims of war.

 

[Don_ih]

probably no one knows about the movie footage, let alone who took the movie.

Motion pictures couldn't make it onto a newspaper front page.

It's certainly different now.

 

[AZD]

I wonder if there is any analysis of the actual negatives? Different makes tend to produce slightly different dimensions of exposed frames. For instance, my M3’s film gate is a millimeter or so longer and wider than my various Nikons (though I don’t have an F to compare). You notice these little things when cutting negative strips. Not that it would be conclusive, but such information could potentially provide some clarity by reducing variables.

 

[Don_ih]

I wonder if there is any analysis of the actual negatives?

Interesting you should say that. I looked at the original photo and the sample of other photos taken by Nick Ut on the Associated Press article I linked above. On most of the example photos, you can see a shutter problem - but not on the Napalm Girl photo and not on the photo of the grandmother carrying the boy - which was probably taken using the same camera as the Napalm Girl photo. Exposure looks the same for both photos. Ut had 4 cameras, though.

 

[snusmumriken]

You know, what grates with me about this whole issue is not who took the photo, but the fact that there were so many cameras around the scene. I know this photo helped end the war, but the whole thing sickens me. The war itself, and how it was also a spectacle. Before anyone asks, I do respect war photographers. But really, the whole thing was a bad chapter, now being repeated.

 

[koraks]

But really, the whole thing was a bad chapter, now being repeated.

It's being repeated in every war, and has been since we figured out photography, and arguably even before. The conclusion invariably boils down to the realization that war is sickening, period. And frankly, in relation to the atrocities generally committed in any given war, a bunch of press photographers clicking the button is among the least of my concerns.

 

[Don_ih]

And Kim Phuc says that Ut took her to the hospital after the pictures were taken. So it's not like he didn't physically help. Also, the more photographers and journalists are at a particular event, the more likely a balanced view of what happened can be presented. Not everyone can be immediately useful in every situation.

 

[snusmumriken]

Yes, you are both right, of course. Depressing, though.

 

[Arthurwg]

It's being repeated in every war, and has been since we figured out photography, and arguably even before. The conclusion invariably boils down to the realization that war is sickening, period. And frankly, in relation to the atrocities generally committed in any given war, a bunch of press photographers clicking the button is among the least of my concerns.

Sad fact: War is what we do, and have been doing for thousands of years. It's a central part of human nature and the human process. In many ways, history is a sequence of wars and there's no end in sight. Another sad fact: War makes great pictures, and you don't even need a camera. Have a look at Goya's "Disasters of War," to name one example.

And if we need more sad facts, great icons of war photography, like Capa's The Falling Soldier and Ut's Napalm Girl are now deconstructed, leaving us with nothing to believe in. I'm reminded of the photo of Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, which I saw as a child and thought to be heroic, only to find that it was staged.

 

[Don_ih]

I'm reminded of the photo of Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, which I saw as a child and thought to be heroic, only to find that it was staged.

The staging didn't diminish the event. It just made an image people could identify. It was symbolic.

To an extent, it doesn't matter who took the Napalm Girl photo. It fully expressed the unnecessary horror of war and the impact on obvious innocents.

War is not part of human nature. It is a an outcome of human society.

 

[BrianShaw]

… same as photography.

 

[TJones]

Sad fact: War is what we do, and have been doing for thousands of years. It's a central part of human nature and the human process. In many ways, history is a sequence of wars and there's no end in sight. Another sad fact: War makes great pictures, and you don't even need a camera. Have a look at Goya's "Disasters of War," to name one example.

And if we need more sad facts, great icons of war photography, like Capa's The Falling Soldier and Ut's Napalm Girl are now deconstructed, leaving us with nothing to believe in. I'm reminded of the photo of Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, which I saw as a child and thought to be heroic, only to find that it was staged.

I thought the assertion that the Iwo Jima photo was staged had been put to rest:

https://www.pulitzer.org/article/joe-rosenthal-and-flag-raising-iwo-jima#:~:text=A%20misunderstanding%20later%20led%20to,had%20not%20staged%20the%20picture.

 

[Arthurwg]

Oddly enough, there were claims that Goya never saw any of the scenes he depicted, even though he claimed he had.

 

[DaveNJ]

Nick Ut Plans Defamation Lawsuit Against ‘Napalm Girl’ Documentary Makers
https://petapixel.com/2025/01/30/ni...documentary-the-stringer-filmmakers-sundance/

 

[BrianShaw]

Worth reading (previously suggested):

https://www.ap.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/AP-Terror-of-War-report.pdf

 

[TJones]

AP issued their final report yesterday and will not be making changes to the photo credit.

https://wapo.st/3EGIrTd

 

[BrianShaw]

https://www.ap.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/TerrorOfWarReportUpdate_May2025.pdf

 

[Arthurwg]

https://www.ap.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/TerrorOfWarReportUpdate_May2025.pdf

Wow! Thanks for posting. This must be the most intense and thorough analysis of a single picture in the history. of photography. Also incredible to see all the other images associated with this event.

I do think that the other photographer may truly believe he took the picture, but that doesn't make it so.

 

[Sirius Glass]

https://www.ap.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/TerrorOfWarReportUpdate_May2025.pdf

Thank you for posting.