Want to Buy [AUS] Durst 4x5 Multigraph/L1200 or L1840

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calebarchie

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Yeah, that *always* hurts. (I just bought some car parts and the seller was brilliant - took him almost 2 months to find a suitable box for one of the parts, but he stuck with it and I appreciated his efforts.)

It's not that difficult to figure out, I've sold a couple of enlargers; used the weight from the manual and added some extra to cover packaging and the extra weight. If the buyer overpays, I simply refund the difference.

Good luck!

Don't get me wrong some sellers go above and beyond. I got one of my drum scanners from Europe and the seller made a crate for it and custom foam inserts, took about a month but for no extra! Perhaps it something about the height that throws them off? Horizontally-oriented equipment seems much friendlier :wondering:

Just saying, 3 in less than a week Lucky? Or just these enlargers aren't as rare as some make out, Odyssey have doubled their prices recently and haven't even updated their website to reflect that which is odd.

If it was me, I'd use it as an excuse for an overseas holiday. Go over with very little luggage and come back with an enlarger and some great memories of an overseas trip!

Certainly, if someone is willing to donate one :D Enjoy your LPL!
 

Johnkpap

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You might have a point Mick, I have only seen deve’s in 4x5 and 5x7 ....the 504 being most common, Durst 184 enlargers are more common but a lot older and really big

Johnkpap
 

Mick Fagan

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John (?) I have seen two 5108 vertical DeVere enlargers in Australia (Melbourne actually), briefly worked one. Essentially a 504 enlarger on steroids.

Horizontal units were pretty much the go with a 254mm x 254mm glass carrier at the rear. I've used one 507 unit, the same as the 504 but with a much bigger head that used to pop the darkroom ceiling false roof and let light in, so we almost always dropped the table down and either used a milking stool or on hands and knees for big enlargements.

The big durst units with a shutter blind were really good for short exposures, but the darkrooms used to get really hot with a thousand watts burning non-stop in the head when working for long periods. Big headache maker that was.

Mick.
 
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calebarchie

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Mick no no, in Europe and the US I am not expecting to find an 8x10 here unless by some miracle.
I do know Chris @ Blanco Negro has a 5108 but I can't recall exactly where or how he got it, but hes not parting with it that is for sure!

I am just wondering if the 5108 and 504 share the same column?
 

Mick Fagan

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Mick no no, in Europe and the US I am not expecting to find an 8x10 here unless by some miracle.
I do know Chris @ Blanco Negro has a 5108 but I can't recall exactly where or how he got it, but hes not parting with it that is for sure!

I am just wondering if the 5108 and 504 share the same column?


Your second question, yes they do. There is a caveat though, if you get one of their enlargers that were a special build, they may have originally been designed for the 515 head. I'm not 100% sure, which may be a slightly different chassis up at the head. But nothing insurmountable.

Blanco Negro may have gotten his from Tasmania some years ago, but that is a pure guess.

Mick.
 
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calebarchie

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Your second question, yes they do. There is a caveat though, if you get one of their enlargers that were a special build, they may have originally been designed for the 515 head. I'm not 100% sure, which may be a slightly different chassis up at the head. But nothing insurmountable.

Blanco Negro may have gotten his from Tasmania some years ago, but that is a pure guess.

Mick.

I only ask as perhaps I can get a 504, install it into the wall like I want to knowing it will be the same then once I find the 5108 simply substitute it just may be a pain if I populate the rest of the darkroom before then.

The engineers at Odyssey say you cannot convert a 504 to 8x10 but adjusting a counterweight is easy, just gotta get the head and neg stage (which has the fixings to the column) but they do not sell assemblies separately. But if they make them new then why not?! :wondering:

This was the one that was briefly available but has since been withdrawn, looks like a motorised unit?
67330186_3166913533319596_9084381517857161216_n.jpg
 

Lachlan Young

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I am just wondering if the 5108 and 504 share the same column?

They do, but the counterweight springs are different. Sufficiently so that you can't just double up the 504's counterweight spring. As an example, the 5108 dichroic head alone weighs 17kg, before you even consider the weight of the negative & lens stages.
There are also spacers that centre the head, lens etc over the baseboard that are completely different.
 
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calebarchie

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They do, but the counterweight springs are different. Sufficiently so that you can't just double up the 504's counterweight spring. As an example, the 5108 dichroic head alone weighs 17kg, before you even consider the weight of the negative & lens stages.
There are also spacers that centre the head, lens etc over the baseboard that are completely different.

Like I said before, I don't think it is anything I can't manage. Are you able to elaborate a bit more on the system it uses exactly rather than repeating the odyssey folk? The manual states its uses a pulley system or is that just for adjusting the stages?
Not planning to use the baseboard at all so.

Its actually cheaper to get one direct from the China factory than go through Odyssey :whistling:
 

Mick Fagan

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The picture of the one that has been withdrawn, is not motorised. What you can see at the top are pulleys and if you roughly know where to look, you can see the right wheel in the front, meaning it is a hand adjusted unit.

Suggesting you will not be using the enlarger baseboard makes me think you have never physically seen a De Vere enlarger, I would strongly suggest you may wish to rethink that idea. Possibly the strongest feature of the De Vere enlargers is the baseboard and protruding out of the front, the adjusting wheels; which in most units use chains to adjust the head height with one wheel and the negative stage with the other wheel. The accuracy of this system is unbelievable, better than any enlarger I have used. The ease of using this system, is easier than any other enlarger I have used. The locking mechanism for the head stage and negative stage, is the best I have ever used. I can imagine that a system of pulleys would allow for easier and dare I say it, greater accuracy than a chain system. I've never seen a De Vere enlarger with pulleys, all of them have used chains.

The exception being the De Vere horizontal enlargers which are motorised for head stage adjustment and negative stage adjustment. I would never like to have a motorised focusing system, it is not as easy to use as a hand adjusted system. You can sometimes be going back and forth guestimating when to release the button and hoping the negative is focused correctly. I've also used some motorised Beseler enlargers, great for getting close, but we always used hand focus to get a perfectly adjusted negative.

That complete focusing system is directly underneath the baseboard and actually holds the baseboard frame, which is fully adjustable in each corner for unbelievable accuracy with negative and head alignment. In short, messing around with the baseboard, is something I think you may wish to reconsider. I've had my De Vere freestanding 504 enlarger for almost 20 years. When I bought it from the professional photo lab, I aligned it as best as I could. It was really wonderful. Eventually I picked up a mirror alignment unit. The negative stage was ever so slightly out of alignment and once that was adjusted I then readjusted the baseboard by starting afresh and moving each corner adjustment until the baseboard was dead parallel to the negative and head stage. I know of no other enlarger system as good as this one to seriously align every part of the enlargers enlarging assembly.

The results of my alignment makeover were that the prints I had been making were pretty good, but now they were pretty unbelievable; technically speaking that is. The crispness, corner to corner from 135 negatives through to 12x13cm negatives was something one had to actually see to believe.

De Vere enlargers are very simple, but also very complex. The chassis, which holds everything together, is the key. The head stage, negative stage and the baseboard stage are all able to be perfectly aligned to each other because of the rigidness of the chassis. This includes when you drop the baseboard stage almost to the floor, for super big enlargements. Once aligned, unless you tip the enlarger over or give it a serious knock, then going out of alignment is rare, not impossible, but really, really rare. Super hard work with an enlarger being constantly worked two shifts a day 5 days a week, year in year out, will also make things go awry, but generally, we don't do that as amatuers.

Prior to acquiring my own De Vere enlarger, I had used a plethora of them in a pro lab and also watched the De Vere technician give a few of them services, including checking for alignment and adjusting if required. It was this ability to almost infinitely adjust and really lock things in place that made me lust for one of these units; never thinking I could afford one.

Mick.
 
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calebarchie

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Hi Mick,

I have seen a 504, 504DS and 5108 in person but not studied extensively but I do very much like the handle system especially as I am quite small in stature! Please ready my other posts where I explain exactly what I want to do, to put it simply there is no room for the baseboard instead I will wall-mount (recessed into wall) and use a adjusting platform. Regarding alignment well I will just to work that out when I get there, the enlarger will mainly be used for film recorder output in 4x5 and 8x10 every so often. With the wall mount version there is simply no extension arm to account for the baseboard so adjustment may be even more precise(?).

A member has contacted me re a 504 being available so I am just waiting to hear back from him. Mick, in that picture what are the yellow strips either side of the column? Also the width of the column itself seems considerably wider that or the plastic is messing with my brain.

Here is a snippet of the manual of the pulley system, the manual states the bench and wall models are cable driven and the free standing is chain - but they may be the same I am not sure.
DeVere5108.jpg

Manual doesn't seem to cover anything about the counterweight system, I'll keep looking.
 

Lachlan Young

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Like I said before, I don't think it is anything I can't manage. Are you able to elaborate a bit more on the system it uses exactly rather than repeating the odyssey folk? The manual states its uses a pulley system or is that just for adjusting the stages?
Not planning to use the baseboard at all so.

Its actually cheaper to get one direct from the China factory than go through Odyssey :whistling:

As the diagram shows, it uses a pulley system to move the stages, each of which are precisely counterbalanced with the springs so that it's almost effortless to operate. It's all inside the upper column, so it matters in all 3 possible setups - bench, wall, floorstanding. The spring counterbalances are quite intimidating, get it wrong while working on them and you could hurt yourself extremely badly, potentially even lethally so. If you've never used or worked on a De Vere before, I can only strongly advise that you don't try playing with the counterbalance springs unless you can source correct spec parts & install them with the correct tools.

Regarding the floor standing model using chains, remember that the control interfaces have to move with the baseboard as you drop it, thus different length of drive distance have to be accommodated whilst keeping the controls at a constant position. The floorstanding base has more of the big counterbalance springs in it too.
 
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calebarchie

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It uses a pulley system to move the stages, each of which are precisely counterbalanced with the springs so that it's almost effortless to operate. It's all inside the upper column, so it matters in all 3 possible setups - bench, wall, floorstanding. The spring counterbalances are quite intimidating, get it wrong while working on them and you could hurt yourself extremely badly, potentially even lethally so. If you've never used or worked on a De Vere before, I can only strongly advise that you don't try playing with the counterbalance springs unless you can source correct spec parts & install them with the correct tools.

Having a look at the manual just says tensators which is just a constant force spring - sourcing should be easy but as you say installing may be tricky. Unloading it then setting it horizontally perhaps may take some trial and error.
 

Lachlan Young

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Having a look at the manual just says tensators which is just a constant force spring - sourcing should be easy but as you say installing may be tricky. Unloading it then setting it horizontally perhaps may take some trial and error.

Head & neg stage at top of column and locked off for starters. You'll need a torque wrench etc at a minimum. Have you ever dismantled a counterbalanced enlarger for transport before? Same principles apply up until you open the column, but unless you have the manufacturers spec for what tools to use & how far to tighten the mounting bolts, it's potentially a risky operation.
 
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calebarchie

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Regarding the floor standing model using chains, remember that the control interfaces have to move with the baseboard as you drop it, thus different length of drive distance have to be accommodated whilst keeping the controls at a constant position. The floorstanding base has more of the big counterbalance springs in it too.

As far as I can see, these are two independent assemblies with extensions for the handles to the column assy on the rear. I might give Chris another visit to have a look at this stuff more closely in person.

Head & neg stage at top of column and locked off for starters. You'll need a torque wrench etc at a minimum. Have you ever dismantled a counterbalanced enlarger for transport before? Same principles apply up until you open the column, but unless you have the manufacturers spec for what tools to use & how far to tighten the mounting bolts, it's potentially a risky operation.

I don't see any need to completely disassemble for transport, lock the stages down and remove the head. Do you have the manual mate?
 
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calebarchie

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Just seen this one - not sure if it suits in any way?

View attachment 230195

Hi Anette,

I did see this infact Tom posted it only a few minutes after I put up a WTB. Was gone for a moment but people were already onto it, bit peeved about that...

But I am not sure if he ever got it going anyway, looks much too big and complex for me! Won't have room for all those bits and pieces :cry:

Search continues...
 

Johnkpap

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The opticom Durst is a computer controlled enlarger I that was designed around the l1200 frame for auto control.

It is way more complex than my AC800.

The Advertiser News paper had a AC1201 version in their darkroom in the 1990’s here in Adelaide

You don’t want it .......unless you intend to do a lot of custom prints with it and are willing to spend a lot of time programming it

Johnkpap
 
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calebarchie

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The opticom Durst is a computer controlled enlarger I that was designed around the l1200 frame for auto control.

It is way more complex than my AC800.

The Advertiser News paper had a AC1201 version in their darkroom in the 1990’s here in Adelaide

You don’t want it .......unless you intend to do a lot of custom prints with it and are willing to spend a lot of time programming it

Johnkpap

John yes probably too complex for me!
Someone has told me that at least 7 De Vere 8x10 units have been scrapped in Australia, one being a CL 11x14 - how disappointing! :mad:
 

Johnkpap

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When the Film Processing/Finishing industry crashed around 2003, there was a lot of Enlargers and other equipment around for next to nothing, there were a lot of Scrap Metal dealers making money by being the the only people who would take the equipment away.

The camera shops that S/hand departments were turning away people with JOBO Processors and Enlargers, enlarging lenses could be bought for next to nothing as well.

What you are looking for is a enlarger that got put into storage, I would try contacting every UNI or TAFE in Australia also Newspapers and printing company's and see what drops from the tree.

Johnkpap
 
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calebarchie

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I have started contacting TAFEs and Unis last week the response is underwhelming, currently working up and down the coasts. A few got back and have forwarded it onto the Photo department on the campus but still haven't heard anything yet. The TAFEs are annoying because you cannot contact them directly, have to go through the portal and then its at the discretion of whoever reads it to pass on. I contacted all of them in the Riverina Region, instead of each one being sent to the individual campuses it goes to the Head and they just say Nope, nothing or can't help (they really wouldn't know if there was anything). Apparently none of the TAFEs in the Riverina have never done a Photography or Darkroom/Image processing course in their entire history.

That would include Wagga Wagga, Griffith, Albury/Wodonga, Cootamundra, Corowa, Deniliquin, Finley, Hay, Leeton, Narranderra, Temora, Tumut, West Wyalong and Young. I mean heck, there used to be a CSIRO branch in Griffith that did they're own developing for tests.

What a load of crock! :errm:
 

Johnkpap

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Once Upon a time every secondary school and Uni had a darkroom. printing company's used enlargers as Copy Cameras.........

I found my darkroom sink which is 9 feet long and 4 feet wide doing what you are doing right now, a big proper sink is harder than finding a enlarger, they never come up for sale.....

My sink came from Flinders Uni:- I knew it existed, I tracked down someone who was working there when the darkroom was decommissioned and asked :"what happened to the big fiberglass sink?".......I it turned out it was in a Ex employee's shed ... he was about to put the house on the market......a deal was done.

Don't give up your dream enlarger is out there just waiting to be found......you just have to find the right person and ask the question.

There is a nice Durst 138s with a color head at the Camera Exchange in Melbourne but it is a 5x7 enlarger $1300.00 not cheap

Johnkpap
 
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calebarchie

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Hi John,

I know they are just feeding me bs but what can I do, just keep looking I guess. Still early days wont be giving up any time soon! Just tend to get frustrated is all :smile:
I seem to be the opposite I found my stainless sink (about 7ft) and revolving door both from Brisbane at the same time via a backload, was only looking for a few days perhaps just chance. From a retired professor at the uni, was sitting in is garage for years! Just gotta know the right people I guess.

I am going to try my luck with a few community colleges back home..

Bests,
Caleb
 
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