Attracting new film users

[wclark5179]

Paul,

I had tears in my eyes when I saw the Omega enlargers stacked on a cart like excess baggage. So be it.

Appreciate for your comments.

And your dedication toward film.

I still use it as I take at least one film camera for each gig I do.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[SilverGlow]

I totally agree that a respectful approach is needed. After all, it is ALL photography, and no approach is better than the other. Just different.

I will say, however, that it took me about five years to become a decent darkroom printer, and it took me about two weeks to become a decent inkjet printer.

The difference, I think (and this is my opinion), is that when you're shooting film you are almost 100% responsible for the results. You use tools that are rudimentary and tangible, hand tools, basically, AND it's a process that takes a long time whether you get a good print or not.
Digital can take time too, and for some it might require as much time as the darkroom, but once you learn a work flow it still baffles me that anybody would find it difficult to get an inkjet print right - especially from a nicely exposed digital capture. No joke or ill meant comment, but I honestly think it's almost too easy as long as you have the right materials in a good printer and good software.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to digital shooters and printers, this is my experience; but my opinion is that darkroom work is much more difficult than a digital work flow.
With multiple toning techniques, lith printing, selective bleach back and re-development, re-development in lith developer, various stages of using several contrast filters within the same print, getting the exposure and development of film *just* right to eke the maximum possible out of a frame of film, the list goes on and on. It is my feeling that it takes a lot more to arrive at the maximum possible from the darkroom than it does from the computer.
The results can be blindingly good from digital. I know this. It's how the world spins these days. But I just can't get along with the fact that it takes as much work with digital as it does with film and darkroom. I just will not agree with it.

If you shoot digital raw, it's going to take you a heck of a lot longer then 2 weeks to learn how to master the print. With raw you often don't expose "perfectly"....you expose to the right of the histogram then master the image in the darkroom.

I think that the length of time it takes to master a wet or dry print is not a good metric to judge a medium by.

Both film and digital take a very long time to learn to do right and at a master level.

Despite what many may say, both mediums afford the photographer a huge amount of control; one not more then the other.

 

[wclark5179]

"The success a photography business is decided whether he or she shoots film or not. "

Not anymore.

Never hear of a client asking for film anymore. Sorry. I feel the same as you but reality is reality.

As I said, if you have another means of financial support then go for it, otherwise, sooner or later you must face the music.

"Both film and digital take a very long time to learn to do right and at a master level."

I find it is a constant learning process! I'm learning everyday! Smiles!

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

If you shoot digital raw, it's going to take you a heck of a lot longer then 2 weeks to learn how to master the print. With raw you often don't expose "perfectly"....you expose to the right of the histogram then master the image in the darkroom.

I think that the length of time it takes to master a wet or dry print is not a good metric to judge a medium by.

Both film and digital take a very long time to learn to do right and at a master level.

Despite what many may say, both mediums afford the photographer a huge amount of control; one not more then the other.

In the interest of not trashing this thread I will not keep arguing my point. But I disagree with you. Doesn't mean you're wrong. I just disagree.

 

[David William White]

I like Cesaraugusta's suggestion of showing some work by the masters. Maybe within the context of history, if necessary. But you can explain that it's all still viable (with materials & equipment available), and preferable by many of today's leading fine art photographers -- Burtynsky and Geoffrey James are just two Canadian examples that quickly come to my mind.

I agree with Bill Clark that the majority of photography from now on will be digital, but there is still a lot of film photography being done, especially by established photographers who are doing just fine with what they are set up to to, so it's not an either/or.

I'm sure if you show some examples from the masters, there will be a few that, for whatever reason, find it intriguing enough to wade in. Lots of good history to leverage.

 

[wclark5179]

Oh Thomas, you're not a nerd like me! Grins!

Digital is equally hard as darkroom, perhaps even more difficult as what can be accomplished with each device. We need to sip a glass of wine or two and discuss this further! I've got both, you can head to the darkroom & I'll get some computer screen time in!

It would be fun!

I would learn from you and maybe you may learn that I'm not as bad as a SOB as I sometimes make comments here on APUG.

We should get together with our MN group. I've got a barbecue! Fun!

Let me know!

 

[Marcus S]

Why must a professional be a digital photographer? I believe it is the style and quality of work, combined with a certain amount of business savy makes a pro successful, not the type of camera, digital or film.

I find it rather sad how photographic quality seems to be going down the river. Take a journey through photographers websites and what do you see? Blown out wedding dresses and tuxedos without details seem to be the norm. The gaudy colours of wedding photographs are rivaling Vegas.
In black and white, it is not unusual to see a white dress bleeding into the background with no detail in the dress whatsoever.

When I tell my customers that any film in any format can be digitized, they are pleased as punch.
On one of my assignments for a political journal, it was requested that film be used!

There is a place for everything and sometimes it is better not to follow the crowd blindly!

 

[Tom-Sircy Maggio]

A Nube

Well...my wife Sircy got her BFA Photography from the University of Utah so I'm learning photographpy mainly from her. We have a few point and shoot digital cameras around the house, but she has two Nikon FM-10's that she used while in school.

My parents finally sent me, after 30 years, their Canon AE-1. I'm rather somewhat excited to work with film. My wife has done pinhole, 35mm and other stuff that I can't remember, but she loves the darkroom. I'm thinking I might as well.

Our older son has a Nikon D300, digital of course but he is interested in photography himself and I believe has a medium format camera himself.

My apologies if this is way off topic.

But I do believe that attraction is better than promotion as someone said on this post. My thing is, I am interested in photography as an art form. I have ideas on what I would like to do on film so this isn't a big stretch for me.

 

[clayne]

As a traditional photography instructor at a non-profit in central MA I am wondering how other attract new students to film. The instant gratification of the digital age makes it an uphill fight but I find that some "see the light" once they experience the darkroom. The question is how to get them through the door?

Thanks,
Paul:confused:

I think the deeper problem is with an instant gratification society. :-/

My general attitude towards the whole thing these days is "f 'em I'll shoot with what I want to shoot." Commercial and/or professional markets rarely cared much for anything but the monetary edge anyways.

 

[Emil]

You know that half dozen cameras you've got lying around, that you don't use anymore? Put them in the local classifieds as free for pickup and throw in a roll of film as well (if you put the ad online, be sure to include some pictures to show how cool the camera looks) and when a kid shows up at your door, show him/her a few of your best prints and recommend your favourite lab. That'll get them hooked for sure, and you'll feel much better giving someone a break you wish you'd had when you started in photography!

Emil

 

[alexmacphee]

You know that half dozen cameras you've got lying around, that you don't use anymore? Put them in the local classifieds as free for pickup

Another good way is to make use of the Freecycle system. Just join your local Freecycle group, and post free ads which get e-mailed to everyone in the local group. Easy enough to find on the 'net.

 

[Willie Jan]

I currently see a lot of young people buying a lomo for fun. They are borred by the digital camera already...

We started an analog group here in the netherlands www.ffotone.com and are going to spread the word probably end of the year when we have a nice portfolio.

The problem is that there are still a lot of analog users, but they are not organized and when you tell them they are not the last mohican they seem to look surprised...

 

[removed account4]

I think the deeper problem is with an instant gratification society. :-/

My general attitude towards the whole thing these days is "f 'em I'll shoot with what I want to shoot." Commercial and/or professional markets rarely cared much for anything but the monetary edge anyways.

you can say that again !

 

[viridari]

Put up some prints that are 4' on the long side from a high end DSLR and the same from a decent MF SLR, invite students to inspect them at a close distance.

 

[Darkroom317]

"The success a photography business is decided whether he or she shoots film or not. "

Not anymore.

Never hear of a client asking for film anymore. Sorry. I feel the same as you but reality is reality.

As I said, if you have another means of financial support then go for it, otherwise, sooner or later you must face the music.

"Both film and digital take a very long time to learn to do right and at a master level."

I find it is a constant learning process! I'm learning everyday! Smiles!

If one's turn around time is decent, I highly doubt that the client will care which medium is used. The major issue is, is it cost effective? This greatly depends on regional economics and demographics. I have found medium format to be a lot cheaper than medium format digital, the unfortunate problem is that people have settled on 35mm or smaller sensors.

 

[Alex1994]

To be honest I think it's a continuation of a trend that we have seen in photography since it's beginning. Ever since the era of huge glass plates that only a skilful artist could extract a workable image from, photography has gradually become more accessible and more convenient. Large format, medium format, 35mm and now digital. There are more photographers now than ever. Digital cameras nowadays enable anyone with a single working arm and hand to take pictures.

I have recently tried to join a photo society in my area in order to use a darkroom. The one in my town will not take members under 18 (I am 16 currently) and the one in Windsor does not have a darkroom anymore, it's a storage room. In the whole of Berkshire it is not possible to find a darkroom for hire or belonging to a society bar one! So it's back to Ilford Mailers and Club 35 of London who now process my film.

 

[RTMoynihan]

Alex, you could always start to develop film yourself, it's really not as intimidating as it seems! The start up materials can be had for had about £40 and then the costs thereafter are about £1 per film, if that (D76 can be had at jessops for less than £5 and it makes an entire gallon!). A dark bag is essential if you don't have a completely dark room and a nice paterson tank is always good. Print developing is good fun but you can get away with scanning, or taking the negs to a kodak express or something. I've set up my darkroom for next to nothing by scouring 'freecycle' and the local camera clubs, many people have progressed through formats and just kept their old enlargers whilst they have a large format enlarger that does everything!

 

[Alex1994]

So is this where you develop the negs yourself and send them to a lab to make prints? Is most of the creative process in the developing or the printmaking?

 

[Prest_400]

Definitively advert the medium; Sometimes there is someone who may like it, or suits him/her better. Before I tried film, I wanted digital, but I don't see the process as appealing right now.

So is this where you develop the negs yourself and send them to a lab to make prints? Is most of the creative process in the developing or the printmaking?

I believe both do involve it's creativity. Developers and developing process with film does affect results a lot.
That's the "easy thing", I saw people that ignoring this say to wannabe film shooters "oh, for film you need a darkroom, it will cost you lots of $$$, you'll have to redo a room.." while it's not like that, for developing film alone.

Even that, I haven't still ventured into B&W. Scanning doesn't appeal me as workflow and darkroom, no idea. Lab scanning isn't cheap and prints, no idea about quality.
Darkroom seems feasible, cheaper than cheap decent scanners, and the big thing.

 

[holmburgers]

until I can print digital images in a darkroom, i'll be shooting film

 

[Darkroom317]

until I can print digital images in a darkroom, i'll be shooting film

You can but the enlargers are expensive. I guess in theory one could possibly use a projector

 

[removed account4]

until I can print digital images in a darkroom, i'll be shooting film

you sure can.
most of the pro-labs do just that ...

 

[Sirius Glass]

You know that half dozen cameras you've got lying around, that you don't use anymore? Put them in the local classifieds as free for pickup and throw in a roll of film as well (if you put the ad online, be sure to include some pictures to show how cool the camera looks) and when a kid shows up at your door, show him/her a few of your best prints and recommend your favourite lab. That'll get them hooked for sure, and you'll feel much better giving someone a break you wish you'd had when you started in photography!

Emil

I have a box full of film cameras that I have been given and Saturday I plan to take them to the Photorama Camera Show Washington DC/VA in Virginia this weekend and help KEH restock their shelves.

Now if I can find another Hassie lens or maybe I should use whatever I get for a FlexBody ...

Steve

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Alex,

Do you have the opportunity to create a basic darkroom set-up?

Tom

 

[Alex1994]

I don't have an entire room at my disposal to dark out. I guess I could use tanks and a changing bag.